Bedini Solid State Oscillators

[sucahyo]

What is cold boiling? At 90mA and 1.5V above charging on the cap. there are visible gas bubbles rising. If radiant spikes are huge it may cause, what looks like a boiling of electrolyte, which is not desirable. Also there is a risk of HV spark inside the battery, which in the presence of hydrogen can result in explosion.

I think that hydrogen/oxygen generation should not be called boiling since it is not water vapor but element created by electrolysis process. If And I think the generation of oxygen and hydrogen gas is unavoidable in batery charging. Although the rate it produce may introduce danger if heated up.

One more reason why charging at moderate current is not a problem for me. The Nicd is used to power mini4wd toy which may consume up to 6 Amp, about 1 Amp minimum when the motor is running. The battery is fated to have short life, I think charging it at rather high rate wouldn't reduce it more.

I have some experience with electrolysis and the water won't boil if the cell voltage is kept low. And I think at under 1.5V per cell I still within the cold electrolysis voltage. This is a different boiling, it's done with HV and very little current. There is a bottleneck effect on the terminal causing rapid ion migration. There is no heat. Heat can be observed when we push (force) current. This will result in sulfate build up and premature death of battery.

I currently use hho cells in series with the charging battery as load. It looks like normal electrolysis although the bubble in the hho cells do look finer than usual. The hho cells require around the same amount of current when using straight dc.

The bubble generated in the hho cell definitely not from cold boiling but from oxygen/hydrogen generated by electrolysis process when we power two electrode in alkaline solution.

Do your lithium cold when ruined? YES

wow, ok.

What is the frequency and charging current of your small SSG? I have to hook it up and measure. I'm working around comp desk in my bedroom with couple dozens of batteries (including some 1000Ah) under my feet
For battery pack I used SSG with 2 slave coils, charging of the diodes.
For AA's I used small SSG with hard drive armature 5" rotor. Modified fan SSG worked great too.

Ok, thanks.

Do you still usee C/20 for you 1000Ah? How did you manage to raised the current in the charging part?

[blackchisel97]

@sucahyo

What is cold boiling? At 90mA and 1.5V above charging on the cap. there are visible gas bubbles rising. If radiant spikes are huge it may cause, what looks like a boiling of electrolyte, which is not desirable. Also there is a risk of HV spark inside the battery, which in the presence of hydrogen can result in explosion. I have some experience with electrolysis and the water won't boil if the cell voltage is kept low. And I think at under 1.5V per cell I still within the cold electrolysis voltage. This is a different boiling, it's done with HV and very little current. There is a bottleneck effect on the terminal causing rapid ion migration. There is no heat. Heat can be observed when we push (force) current. This will result in sulfate build up and premature death of battery.

Do your lithium cold when ruined? YES

What is the frequency and charging current of your small SSG? I have to hook it up and measure. I'm working around comp desk in my bedroom with couple dozens of batteries (including some 1000Ah) under my feet
For battery pack I used SSG with 2 slave coils, charging of the diodes.
For AA's I used small SSG with hard drive armature 5" rotor. Modified fan SSG worked great too.


Vtech

[sucahyo]

Charging with radiant charger is never near that hot even at 0.75A, maybe because the charging voltage is much lower. The battery is even cooler than when being runned. Let see if the battery got less life. - You can cold boil your battery and ruin it. When charging with radiant there is no heat. Heat means energy leakage and loss (unless you want to transform electricity into heat). Still, C20 should not be exceeded.

Ok, unfortunately I don't have charger like that and I still have to keep charging it at two minutes charger at week end (can't resist my son request lol).

What is cold boiling? I have some experience with electrolysis and the water won't boil if the cell voltage is kept low. And I think at under 1.5V per cell I still within the cold electrolysis voltage.

Do your lithium cold when ruined?

There are also 15minutes charger available. I think it charge more than 1 Amp. - They're battery killers This is huge, very profitable industry, especially non-rechargeable batteries.

ok.

Can you really charge a Lithium with Radiant charger? Isn't Lithium cell will be damaged if exposed to high voltage and radiant charger has HV spike?

- yes but not with HV pulses such as from radiant charger or solid state. I charge 2300mA AA's but I use one of my small SSG's.

I see, thanks for the information. What is the frequency and charging current of your small SSG?

[blackchisel97]

Charging with radiant charger is never near that hot even at 0.75A, maybe because the charging voltage is much lower. The battery is even cooler than when being runned. Let see if the battery got less life. - You can cold boil your battery and ruin it. When charging with radiant there is no heat. Heat means energy leakage and loss (unless you want to transform electricity into heat). Still, C20 should not be exceeded.

There are also 15minutes charger available. I think it charge more than 1 Amp. - They're battery killers This is huge, very profitable industry, especially non-rechargeable batteries.

Can you really charge a Lithium with Radiant charger? Isn't Lithium cell will be damaged if exposed to high voltage and radiant charger has HV spike? - yes but not with HV pulses such as from radiant charger or solid state. I charge 2300mA AA's but I use one of my small SSG's.


Vtech

[sucahyo]

Thanks for your data. Nice to note that you are running HHO cell also through this circuit.

I use hho cell to limit voltage. Otherwise my power supply will shut itself.

The current draw at of 1.9 Amps and output current of 0.75 Aamps is really impressive. What voltage you are getting at the output in open condition.

Around 90V. I charge at 250mAh now, so I can run the charger long without having to monitor the transistor heatsink.

Have you ever tried bigger batteries i.e. over 35 Ah on this circuit. To my mind the charging will be much faster with your circuit.

Never. According to some forum, battery need to be charged the same rate as the rating. For 35Ah, using 0.75A would require 46 hour.

But it seems the rating is overrated. Just now I charge 700mAh battery with 250mA charge current. According to the theory it need about 3 hour, but it reach max voltage at 1 hour.

Also request you to kindly give me the detail on part number for other components like Opto coupler, SCR, Transistor (output side), Bridge rectifire and the coil details.

I use 7 diode for output part and use TIP3055 for switch. I have bad experience with opto coupler. Now I also avoid using capacitor too. Circuit attached.

Remember that diode may limit current, so we may have to use more than one diode to allow more current. And I think we should use as much as diode as possible since it should make more HV transfer to the battery.

Be careful with charging current. Batteries shouldn't be charge/discharge above their C20. If you're experimenting with small SLA don't aim for 0.5A or more. It will charge fast but it may kill your battery just as fast.

It will still be a lot better than using my cheap chinese made charger or 15 minutes charger or the monstrous two minutes charger. Radiant charger do not make my battery hot and charging voltage is only at +0.2V above battery current voltage.

The NiCd battery is being punished every weekend on 2 minutes charger on local mini4wd track. Seeing that it is really a computer power supply, I think it must be 12V charging two battery in series. It got very hot after two minutes and off course hot less charge.

Charging with radiant charger is never near that hot even at 0.75A, maybe because the charging voltage is much lower. The battery is even cooler than when being runned. Let see if the battery got less life.

There are also 15minutes charger available. I think it charge more than 1 Amp.

Can you really charge a Lithium with Radiant charger? Isn't Lithium cell will be damaged if exposed to high voltage and radiant charger has HV spike?



About short on time using 555, this link is posted by someone in this forum, which I forget where yesterday.
LM555 Timer Circuits

[blackchisel97]

changing duty cycle of 555

I was thinking about duty cycle of 555. In this setup, 1uF charges through 330 Ohm and 51k pot and discharges through 51k only. If we increase pot resistance, duty cycle will decrease but not less than 50%, in other words: impulse will never get shorter than pause. If we connect diode parallel with pot (anode to 7 and cathode to 2&6) than capacitor will charge through 330 Ohm only, since 51k is shorted and discharge through 51k as before. So, our duty cycle will be 330 divided by (330 + Pot), not 330 + 51k div. by 330 + (2 x 51k). With 330 Ohm and approx. 6.5k on the pot our duty cycle should be @ 50%. Increasing pot resistance will lower cycle under 50%.
I connected signal diode 1N914 and I'll try to fiddle with. It will take around 2 weeks for the scope to arrive and be able to see what is going on.


Vtech

[pvar06]

battery report

Hi,

From 900 hrs to 2100 hrs the battery voltage gone up further from 12.92 to 13.04 volts.

Now more bubbles are coming out from the battery cells. Waiting for battery to acheive the 13.4-13.5 volts.

Will keep posted the testing data.

Regards

Praveen

[blackchisel97]

Interesting video with John Bedini

BatteryForming_2008_04_25_16_16_47.wmv


V

[blackchisel97]

@Praveen

Hi Praveen, One thing i have observed that the white color deposits on the battery electrode plates are getting removed slowly [this i could see from the small holes for water pouring]. Also some tiny bubbles are coming out from the battery. I think something good is happening there. Slow is good. I have learned not to rush (sometimes difficult to resist ) I would try to terminate at 13.5 -13.8V than let it rest overnight and discharge with C20. Don't go too low! Try to measure time. Let it rest and charge again - measure time too. You may have to repeat this charging/discharging cycle several times to format battery but each charging cycle should take less time and each discharge time should increase. This will prove that battery capacitance is increasing too. I'll be away tomorrow but will think about your multicoil idea.
I'm glad it's starting to work for you.



Vtech

[pvar06]

Hi,

Yesterday morning 900 hrs to this morning 900 hrs the battery voltage up from 12.7 to 12.92 volts. It is going up at very slow pace but atleast I am happy that it is going up.

I am thinking to take it up to atleast 13.4 - 13.5 volts then discharge it at C20 rate then again put for charging.

One thing i have observed that the white color deposits on the battery electrode plates are getting removed slowly [this i could see from the small holes for water pouring]. Also some tiny bubbles are coming out from the battery. I think something good is happening there.

Since the current charger is performing so I did not want to disturb that, hence making another charger for my furter trail and testing. On this charger I was planning to put two coils. But little confused the way it should be hooked up on the circuit. I have following options

1. Connect the coils in series and hook both the coil [6 wires] on the circuit.

2. Connect both the coil in parallel i.e. each connection point on the circuit will have two wire - one from coil one and second from coil two.

3. Connect the wires sperately [like parallel] on the circuit at driver battery side i.e. 8 wires of both the coils. The third wire of the coil is in series and connect the same on the bridge rectifire.

Requesting to give some input on the above.

I agree with your point that the charging and discharging rate for any battery should not be above C20 rate. This i will keep it in mind while testing.

Vteh, Congrates for the scop.

Regards

Praveen

[blackchisel97]

Be careful with current

Be careful with charging current. Batteries shouldn't be charge/discharge above their C20. If you're experimenting with small SLA don't aim for 0.5A or more. It will charge fast but it may kill your battery just as fast. I did that to couple of mine While ago I was doing well rejuvenating Lithium battery pack for a drill and decided to give a try with SS. I was on call and gone for 12 hrs. Since then I cannot charge more than 9V. (It suppose to be 14.4V). Lesson learned.
I think there is a way to get less than 50% with NE555 I was too busy today to follow progress. Last night I decided to connect two 38Ah batts. in parallel to the charger. Reading 12.3V and 15.42 on the cap - polarized, 160uF/450V.
Just won a scope few minutes ago


Vtech

[pvar06]

Hi Sucahyo,

Thanks for your data. Nice to note that you are running HHO cell also through this circuit. In fact this is my future plan once I will set the things right with the basic circuit.

The current draw at of 1.9 Amps and output current of 0.75 Aamps is really impressive. What voltage you are getting at the output in open condition.

Have you ever tried bigger batteries i.e. over 35 Ah on this circuit. To my mind the charging will be much faster with your circuit.

Also request you to kindly give me the detail on part number for other components like Opto coupler, SCR, Transistor (output side), Bridge rectifire and the coil details.

With regards

Praveen

[sucahyo]

That is really different from mine. I use TIP3055 to switch 6 Ohm part of a transformer.

Battery being charged are two 1.2V NiCd 1000mAh battery.

Power consumption, charging current:
no load = 0.25A
with battery + hho cell in series = 0.6A, charging at 0.1A.
with battery only = 1.9A, charging at 0.75A.

The charging voltage of both is around 0.1V more than charged battery voltage.

[pvar06]

Hi Vtech,

Thanks for the information.

Yesterday night i have played with the three pot placed on the circuit. I was getting the good input current but at output side it was nothing. So finally i have adjusted the pot to in such a way that i am getting following

1. Input - 12 volts and 0.25 Amps
2. Output - 50-55 volts and 0.08 Amps

The battery is charging at around 0.5 volts above the battery voltage. But could see some change in the battery condition. I have kept the 12 volts 35 Ah battery at 2.00 hrs and morning 9.00 hrs the voltage on the battery increased from 12.30 volts to 12.70 volts. It is going up but at very slow pace. I will let you know the resistance level at various pot.

In the above setup the coil is 23 SWG with 450 turns. Now the target is to get 200 volts in above setup.

I am also planning to have another circuit now as dont want to disturb the current one, if it will deliver the result to me.

In fact the above was possible because of your inputs and I am thankful to you. Will keep you posted on progress.

Regards

Praveen

[blackchisel97]

555 oscillator

I have built another circuit since I didn't want to mess with the one which is working and got two more DMM's to be able to monitor voltage on the output cap and charging battery. I have analog amp meter in series with charging batt. Output capacitor is 220uF/450V. Coil has 3X AWG 24 twisted, 600T (I didn't want to cut already twisted wire). Spool size 2.5" (6.4cm), dia 3" (7.5cm) and she is full. 50k potentiometer instead of fixed resistor and I found good spot right in the middle (approx 25k). Potentiometer, 330 Ohm resistor and 1uF cap are responsible for duty cycle and frequency. I have output current at 0.09A and cap is discharging 2V above batt. I connected one of the two Yuasa 12V 38Ah SLA I just got this evening. Battery measured 4.6V and has been stored for unknown time. When I powered on, voltage climbed to 37V and begun slowly drop, reaching 7V within an hour. After 6hrs started climbing and is reading 13V right now. I found all Bedini circuits "gaining speed" at night and being least efficient in the morning. Even my pendulum is spinning faster at night
555 duty cycle can be adjusted quite a bit. For some reason I think I would keep near 50%. I'll check everything tomorrow. Just realized that I have a triac instead of thyristor but I don't see how this could negatively affect this circuit.
Also found this link in my bookmarks - 555 555 Oscillator (Astable Multivibrator)
and LM555 Timer Circuits


Vtech