Bedini Solid State Oscillators

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, I decided to go with Bedinis solid state circuit since the JouleThief circuit was overheating my transistor. It works well and the heat is about the same, maybe a little bit more than the 555 timer setup is. Though I had to use a 56K resistor where the 18K resistor is in his circuit between collector and base to lower input current. Reason I wanted a self oscillator was because I'm using a 13.8V power supply and was also using a 12v SLA to power the 555 timer which I didn't want to have to recharge. Thanks J. Bedini.
peace love light
Tyson

[sucahyo]

Direct charging made the battery really heated up. The reason I use radiant charger is the cool charging, if charging at 10 minutes heat the battery up then I prefer 30 minutes. Little longer but never heat up. I remove the diode and use two transistor configuration again. Now charging the battery in series with hho cells again.

New circuit only has 200mA output but the transistor and 555 stay cool now.

Previous circuit charge 12V 7Ah BB SLA from 12.24V to 12.6V in 15 minutes. Since the one transistor version heat the battery significantly, I think it would has similar effect like high capacity capacitor placed in parallel with battery, which reduce battery capacity.

[sucahyo]

It seems 555 is the most prefered version for anyone . A couple of days ago my 555 die. For temporal charger I made a mechanical version. Since it is too loud I made another 555 again.

The new one use diode to reverse the charging. It work, but the power using only one transistor is much less than when using two. New circuit with two transistor made the one wire neon lighted up twice as bright. But since one transistor allow me to charge 3V nicad load directly with new circuit, I use only one. Besides, less power made the circuit very quiet now, the transformer sing rather loud using two transistor previously.

New circuit performance: charging 2300mAh NiMh from 1.23V to 1.35V in 10 minutes. This is my fastest record.

I think I will try to charge 12V 7Ah too.

[blackchisel97]

I remember

Hi Tyson, Thanks for the update. I'm running test on 12V 20Ah bike battery. She was sitting @ 12.30, right now has 12.98. Oscillator frequency 190Hz. Cap dumping @ 14.15V. Still wondering about frequency/cap dump. I was thinking about trying this on the wheel with strong N poles. I have a rotor with 16 poles from other setup I'm missing all the action The only thing moving in my bedroom is pendulum, which I found very relaxing and inspiring.


Vtech

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, don't know if anyone remembers me posting about the 6V-4.5AH lead acid gel I was rejuvenating. Well after about 10 condition cycles it now takes a proper charge on a typical peak charger. This battery before rejuvenation would drop to 0 volts when an led was connected so it was very dead and sulphated. Just thought I'd let you all know that it worked out very well. I was initially using a joule thief to rejuvenate although after 3 cycles due to excessive heat in transistor I went to 555 timer pulsing and this worked just as well and very little heat.
peace love light
Tyson

[blackchisel97]

Tuning

Hi Praveen,

First, I have tried different transistors for the oscillating part. I found best results with 3055 (MJL3055). I have 1k pot with 100 Ohms as base resistance. Also, between emitter and ground I put small (27 Ohms) resistor with approx 20 turns of #24 wounded on it. 1uF in 555 circuit has been replaced with 2uF/50V electrolytic (doesn't have to be 50V). I put two stabilizing capacitors; 10nF between leg 5 and ground, and 100nF from 4&8 and ground. I put 1N4001 diode in series with positive going to the 555. My SCR is a triac BTA12 600B trigerred by MJE 13005. My coil is a twisted quad with only 3 windings being used. 450T of 0.45mm (AWG#26) I don't have enough #23 at the moment. Welding rods used as a core.
Main change was proper value of pulsing capacitor. Small caps, such as value from the book charge/ discharge faster. As a result you can pulse at higher frequencies but all I was getting was too much radiant not enough current. Voltage on charging battery appeared to rise quickly but in larger batteries it did result in surface charge. There was lead ion movement but not strong enough to make battery charge itself. After few test I used 2200Uf/400V electrolytic cap, which is charging 0.9V above battery. I can adjust output current between 0.10 - 0.15A depending on battery. 555 oscillator runs @ 180Hz. I'll do some more tests today. I need another coffe


Vtech

[pvar06]

Great

Hi Vtech,

This circuit will give you good results.

What are the changes you have made on the circuit...

Regards

Praveen

[blackchisel97]

I think I finally got it!

7:30 am. Hopefully, finally, I think I got it right My heavily sulphated 1000CCA is moving and producing some serious bubbles, not just a fine ones like before. I still have to do fine tuning but I need some sleepfirst. I've been working on this since 5pm yesterday. I have built new circuit from scratch. This time using terminals allowing component replacement without soldering. I can get over 0.20A output but when tuned, output current is 0.95A. Voltage on the cap is only 0.9V above battery. I had to change couple values. Wave looks nice; sharp "h" spike.


Vtech

[sucahyo]

If I remember well, air coil should resonate 10x higher than iron core and it suppose to be the next step. Didn't try it, yet.

Thanks .

Being honest, I got lost in your calculation

I omit the voltage since it is too dynamic. I just got this link on other forum:

http://battery.sanyo.com/en/spec/cadnica/N-1700SCR.pdf

This sanyo manual mention that in order to charge 1700mAh in an hour we need 2600mA. Charging at 170mA may require more than 14 hours. Because I charge 1000mAh under 30 minutes with a measured 300mA, I guess I have to throw my calculation out to the window.... I guess I have to calculate input current and charging time vs utilized power and discharging time only.

Just replaced cap @ the oscillator with 1uF/50V electrolytic. I don't have any small HV DC cap, they're all big.

How about use 4 of them in series to make 1uF/200V?

[blackchisel97]

You forgot 2 funny thing, impedance change with frequency in a coil. And the second funny thing is the impedance of the battery change too when it charge. You ajust one, the second change, you retune, it change again.

Best Regards,
EgmQC

I'm aware of this, but didn't find hilarious, rather pain in an ***
I 'm getting quite nice trace, a bit distorted with 60Hz. Still, getting 2 spots; one @50mA and one @ 100mA charging current. Both spikes are similar. Input draw 0.370A. I know that I should ignore IN vs. OUT and focus on wave. I believe that OUT will be significantly less than IN, that's not the point. I'm not after COP. I want to trigger reaction within a battery, which is a heart of this system, as described by John Bedini and Tom Bearden. Just replaced cap @ the oscillator with 1uF/50V electrolytic. I don't have any small HV DC cap, they're all big.


Vtech

[EgmQC]

Hi folks, thanks for info Bchisel. You know the matching of impedance always bothered me, I mean do you know how low the impedance is of lead acid batteries and using a coil with that low of impedance whether paralleled wires or whatever is not an easy task, not to mention J. Bedini's spec. of within 1 milliohm. Looking online a wheelchair lead acid batteries internal impedance varies from 9-15 milliohms and it looks like the typical batteries I have 12volt-7AH gel lead acids are 25 milliohm. So a coil to match that would draw some serious peak amperage, so maybe the multiple coil deal with dedicated transistors per coil is used because of the impedance match issue.
peace love light
Tyson

You forgot 2 funny thing, impedance change with frequency in a coil. And the second funny thing is the impedance of the battery change too when it charge. You ajust one, the second change, you retune, it change again.

Best Regards,
EgmQC

[pvar06]

Reports

Hi,

Furthr to my post #390 on 10/10/2009. I had removed the battery from the circuit after 4 days charging. During the charging time the battery terminal voltage was around 13.31 volts. The details are as given below:

1. On disconnecting from the circuit the battery voltage was 12.92 volts. The voltage dropped from 12.92 volts to 12.39 volts in 4 hours duration.

2. Since the voltage dropped below 12.39 volts hence decided not to have any further load testing.

3. During the charging the battery voltage has gone up but there was no improvement in the gravity of the battery.

During the test, lot of bubbles were coming out from the battery cells. Also the white depot on the edges of the electrode plate is removed slowly (I can observe as the white layer on top of plate is getting reduced).

I agree that there are something missing in this circuit. It looks simple but hard to get the sweet spot. To my mind any circuit which we have should draw altest 1-2 Amps at 12 volts and at output we should have around 200-250 volts to get some meaningful results.

Regards

Praveen

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, thanks for info Bchisel. You know the matching of impedance always bothered me, I mean do you know how low the impedance is of lead acid batteries and using a coil with that low of impedance whether paralleled wires or whatever is not an easy task, not to mention J. Bedini's spec. of within 1 milliohm. Looking online a wheelchair lead acid batteries internal impedance varies from 9-15 milliohms and it looks like the typical batteries I have 12volt-7AH gel lead acids are 25 milliohm. So a coil to match that would draw some serious peak amperage, so maybe the multiple coil deal with dedicated transistors per coil is used because of the impedance match issue.
peace love light
Tyson

[blackchisel97]

@sucahyo

For my charging part efficiency, 320mA version:
- fully discharge battery at 1.5Amp for 6 minutes, battery voltage become 1.25V.
- fully charge again at 320mA less than 30 minutes (1.42V). the battery voltage raised from 1.25V to 1.35 during the first 15 minutes.

Discharging rate = 1.5 * 6 * 60
Discharging rate = 540 Amp seconds

Charging rate = 0.32 * 30 * 60
Charging rate = 576 Amp seconds

efficiency = 540/576 = 93%

The battery charge faster than 30 minutes, so the actual number may be higher. The charging part are good but the circuit part are very bad...

I think the choice of using two transistor and using resistor under 1K may be the source of my circuit inefficiency.

Will air coil improve the charging efficiency considerably?

If I remember well, air coil should resonate 10x higher than iron core and it suppose to be the next step. Didn't try it, yet.

Being honest, I got lost in your calculation
IMO the key to obtain high efficiency is: conditioned (desulphated) battery, matching impedance of battery and coil and proper waveform - which I'm after - tonight. I managed to make a probe and connect my circuit to the PC. Now I can see what I'm doing I was totally wrong while trying to tune according to DMM's This is cute! I can actually print out scope shots from PC. Back to work!


Vtech

[EgmQC]

For my charging part efficiency, 320mA version:
- fully discharge battery at 1.5Amp for 6 minutes, battery voltage become 1.25V.
- fully charge again at 320mA less than 30 minutes (1.42V). the battery voltage raised from 1.25V to 1.35 during the first 15 minutes.

Discharging rate = 1.5 * 6 * 60
Discharging rate = 540 Amp seconds

Charging rate = 0.32 * 30 * 60
Charging rate = 576 Amp seconds

efficiency = 540/576 = 93%

The battery charge faster than 30 minutes, so the actual number may be higher. The charging part are good but the circuit part are very bad...

I think the choice of using two transistor and using resistor under 1K may be the source of my circuit inefficiency.

Will air coil improve the charging efficiency considerably?

Re-look your math

Best Regards,
EgmQC