Bedini Solid State Oscillators

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, Hi blackchisel, funny you mention it, I have a couple of 6V-6AH sealed lead acids that are sitting at around 2 volts and not having the greatest of luck getting them to hold a load on much of anything, just drops to zero volts when loaded. I'm using a joule thief circuit and it can push the voltage way up on them, though it is starting to slowly show signs that it might be taking a little bit of charge, because say it gets bumped up to 20v it then slowly drops down to 11 and slowly keeps dropping as current slowly increases. Can anyone give me advice since these batteries are not damaged and hardly have had any use, so I figure from sitting too long became very sulfated. Has anyone else had luck rejuvenating sealed lead acids using the radiant flyback, by the way its using the single diode method as Bedini does. Any help appreciated.
peace love light
Tyson

[blackchisel97]

Solid State RE Charger

Greetings everyone. Just popped to say hi and share my experience with ss energizer. I've been experimenting with different setups for the past few months. It has been long time since last time I work in electronic field, almost 25 years. I have been inspired by work of several people and decided to "jump back" into this fascinating field to prevent (whatever is left my brain cells from dying of starvation. My latest testing involves John Bedini Radiant Energy Charger, both - with rotor and solid state (pages 46 and 47). I'm waiting for new scope to arrive and unable to see, only read meters and hear changes in the coil (I found my phone handset coupling with coil from 20" distance). After I got it working I added LED in series with optocoupler input and diode in resonant part of circuit, between e - c. I used 100k pot between 7-2,6 of 555. I didn't have small 10uF cap and used 160uF photocap instead. I use different transistor (700Vce) and triac. I cannot tell if circuit is tuned as it should but it's charging much faster than my quad with rotor. When I tried to dump charge over cap with neon over terminals, neon fired within 1.4sec. Currently trying to reincarnate very dead lead acid.

Cheers

V-tech
(this is my first name, just spelled differently to sound right in English. Use to be my company name). I'm not affiliated with v-tech toys or phones

[Sephiroth]

I am wondering why increasing base resistance results in a higher frequency?
I'm thinking that the pulse to base is like a finger mashing a button, and the softer it presses the quicker the button pops back up...

The way the circuit operates is slightly different from the solid state circuit from the FEG book but the principle is the same.... basically if the resistor is of a high enough value in an SSG circuit, it makes the whole trigger circuit act like a capacitor which can store energy to trigger the transistor again after the field has collapsed.

http://www.energeticforum.com/attachments/renewable-energy/1227d1222110824-bedini-sg-selfresonance.jpg

When using the rotor for triggering, the passing magnets send just a tiny current into the base of the transistor. This activates the transistor (slightly) and so current starts flowing through the primary winding. This creates an expanding magnetic field.

Now remember the bifilar coil IS a transformer! So when current starts flowing through the primary winding, it generates current in the opposite direction in the trigger winding. (This is what really activates the transistor.) The amount of current it can generate depends on the speed which the magnetic field is forming. It starts off very fast, then as the magnetic field starts becomes saturated, slows down until there is no induced current in the trigger winding.

By increasing the base resistance, you are reducing the amount of current that can flow through the trigger winding so the transistor turns off sooner and sooner as you increase the resistance.

So you get higher frequencies with higher resistance.

If you used a very low value resistor, then the magnetic field will keep expanding until it is practically fully saturated. This obviously takes longer so you get lower frequencies.

[CosmicFarmer]

Yes that makes perfect sense, thank you for such a detailed explanation!

My solid state was running at 1.45 KHZ (highest frequency before noticeable change from square) for a few days - the charge rate and power use rate was very slow, almost slower then with the magnetic wheel. I guess I should figure out the charge time for my coil... but my LHC meter from china got messed up in airport security.

I noticed with the trifilar 2 power wires, that the oscillations are easy to stop if you change the resistance too fast or get magnets close to it, less of the collapse goes into the smaller wire so I guess the transistors base sees less.

I'm halfway toying with an idea to make a solid state musical instrument... or just playing with it near a guitar's pickups.

Thanks!

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I am wondering why increasing base resistance results in a higher frequency?
I'm thinking that the pulse to base is like a finger mashing a button, and the softer it presses the quicker the button pops back up...

[Sephiroth]

there are a few things happening that charges the battery... the conventional and the "non" conventional.

In a coil a voltage is generated when exposed to a changing magnetic field. The faster the magnetic field is changing, the greater the votlage generated. What bedini's devices do is create a magnetic field, then the current is cut off very sharply, and the magnetic field then collapses at an incredible rate. This generates voltage spike in the coil that is sent to the charging battery. This is what we refer to as the radiant, or transient spike.

However. after a very brief time, current is induced in the coil by the voltage it has generated. We know that when current is flowing through a coil it forms a magnetic field. So once the current starts flowing in the coil it actually SUSTAINS the collapsing field and slows down the rate at which it's collapsing so the voltage generated by the coil drops to just above the charging battery's voltage.

So... two things are happening. The first event (the transient spike) is what we are most interested in. However, by conventional physics this very brief spike has very little energy and does little, if anything, to charge the batteries. Conventionally, what charges batteries is current and the current that is generated by the collapsing field can theoretically produce the same amount of energy as the energy required to create it (in reality it is usually several times less).

The transient spike is what causes the unusual charing effect of the batteries. We have to use energy to create this spike.

However, alot of the energy that was used in creating the spike can be recovered through the current generated from the collapsing field. So we want to recover as much of the energy that was used as possible.

Most of the charging in a solid state device will be directly from the energy we've recovered from what we put into the system.

Then on top of that, we have the anomalous charging effect of the spike.

Things that reduce the amount of energy we can recover from the system are things like resistance that generate (useless?) heat.

In the stepped waveform, what is happening is that the energy that is left in your coil after it has sent a charging pulse to the battery is generating tiny currents that slosh back and forth within the coil because the field isn't collasping fast enough to generate a voltage higher than the charging battery, so all that energy that is left over is being burnt up by the resistance of the coil.

It is only after you input a good strong pulse of energy, does a good strong pulse of energy come back, as well as a strong spike. With a good square wave, the energy that is left over can be used to form the magnetic field when the next input pulse is applied so it isn't wasted sloshing about in your coil.

Does that make sense? I haven't tried writing it up before so it is probably gibberish

[CosmicFarmer]

Excellent. Thanks for that info. I was about to do an all day test run on the stairstep wave charging. Makes sense about the charging voltage, but aren't inductive collapses much higher then 12v? I only see the radiant waveform if I replace charging battery with scope, so I'm not sure. I thought that the collapse dives into the battery and the scope dosn't get a chance to see it.

Any reason why you would want the stairstep waveform? Something about tesla's time wave? I guess this would make a good transmitter for nearby resonant circuits, but nothing beats the SEC for wireless. One day I'll make that, but I gotta learn how to resonate (walk) before I can cohere (run) ;-)

Anyway, sorry if this is been-there-done-that. Thank you for your time and I am honored.

[Sephiroth]

hi Cosmicfarmer,

i recognise those waves... I am guessing your amp draw will be very low with the last two though your charge rate will be very poor.

the first scope shot is what you are looking for.

The other two show the charge bouncing around the coil but rarely going over the charging voltage so you will loose alot more to parasitic resistance.

Also, (in my opinion) the main problem with using very high frequencies is the losses in the transistors. When a transistor is fully "on" then they are quite efficient and have a very low impedance.

however, in the time between the on and off state the impedance of the transistor gets relatively high and this is when the most energy is being "burnt" by the transistor as heat. When operating at higher frequencies more energy is burnt in the switching.

I think you should be aiming for a nice square wave like in the first shot

to solve the sensitivity issue, when you know what the lowest resitance you need the trigger to be stick in a higher base resistor and a lower value pot Even just using a higher base resistor should make a difference.

[CosmicFarmer]

Groovy waves, maaaan....

I made a SS Bedini SSG, Trifilar, bottom of power lead 1 hooked to top of power lead 2, other wise normal with MJL21194, and cranked with a 100k ohm potentiometer. VERY TOUCHY. Just getting NEAR the potentiometer changes the frequency. Also grabbing wires affects frequency too. Must be bio-magnetism or capacitive coupling. I have to start the Solid State with a NEO magnet in the audible range, and slowly crank up the resistance and frequency.

To start out the waves look square wave ish (first photo)
Then as I go up, one side begins to separate into a M, leading to a double stair step or heart beat style wave.
Then as I go up further, I hit a sweet spot where I am unable to separate the waveform, as it looks like the last pulse is still bouncing around inside the coil when the next one comes. One stair step wave on top of a double M wave, ontop of noise wave...

Unfortunately when I found this last waveform the magnet I used to start it was in my pocket, and by me leaving the room (7 ft away atleast!) I changed the magnetic environment of the sensitive coil enough to change the frequency and loose it, and was un-able to get it again.

(Ben Stein voice) wow. YouTube - Woooow

Stair step waves anyone?

[Sephiroth]

I have a standard SSG circuit that can oscillate when the resistance is set higher then 1.5 K, and I was wondering if that is healthy for the charging battery? Would this be a solid state charger?

Thanks.

Yes, that counts as a solid state charger

shouldn't harm your battery as long as you stay within the C20 rate

[CosmicFarmer]

Lazy Man's SS

I have a standard SSG circuit that can oscillate when the resistance is set higher then 1.5 K, and I was wondering if that is healthy for the charging battery? Would this be a solid state charger?

Thanks.

[Sephiroth]

Hi Sep,

Nice Solid state. Looks very neat inside its little housing.

The best solidstate I ever fiddled around with was an air core "donut" wound coil. Funnily enough I remember seeing a picture of the innards of a Rennasiance charger where I saw the same thing. Of course I cant be sure that its intended purpose was specifically for power windings.

Interesting to note the different configurations in that patent you posted above, you can see the one I am referring to in there.

Mine was wound around a 15cm form, three wires all 2mm gauge. Pulled some current but dang, it charged well.

Ive been experimenting with large cap pulsing lately too, of course my caps are filled via rotor triggerings, not solid state. I noted that my charging rate was pitiful if I left it too long between pulses. 2 seconds is about the maximum amount of time I use. This gives my 160,000 uF caps a chance to get up to 16v before they are dumped into the charging battery.

I am surprised your relay hasnt packed it in. I welded the contacts shut almost every discharge from caps a 1/4 of that size.

Keep it up.

Regards

Hi Ren,

I quite pleased with how well the relay is holding up I'm sure alot of it has to do with the lower voltage and short pulse duration (estimated 30 millisecond dumps every two seconds... might take it to 1 second intervals)

But I don't want to take any risks if the relay was to pack in then there are two scenarios:

1. the contacts will be welded together so the output of the oscillator will be going directly to the battery... this isn't a problem.

2. the contacts fail completely and the cap is left to charge and charge until it explodes this will take less than 30 seconds on my set up

Considered putting a zener across the terminals but not sure how that would interact with the spikes.

So I'm not letting it run unattended until I get a bulkier relay to replace the little one.

I know the type of coil your talking about... how many turns did it have? and do you know the frequency compared to amp draw?

I thought of using speaker wire to make a big low resistance coil, but later learned about the skin effect and how the resistance of a wire increases at higher frequencies, so opted for litz windings which increases the surface area.

I'm trying to get the highest possible Q value from the coils by aiming for the Brooks Coil configuration. I actually got it wrong but it's close so I'm still happy wouldn't have believed a 60 turn coil could work so well!

still tweaking at the moment... I'm happy with the circuit as a whole, but still more study needed before I settle on a design.

Any thoughts on the purpose of using a bridge rectifier? Logically it shouldn't be needed since there won't be any current generated by the expanding magnetic field if the load voltage is higher than the input voltage, though these circuits aren't meant to work logically so i don't know still alot of question marks

[ren]

Can't knock it if it works Some of my first solid state devices used a cap on the trigger circuit...

Is that a toroid?

Hi Sep,

Nice Solid state. Looks very neat inside its little housing.

The best solidstate I ever fiddled around with was an air core "donut" wound coil. Funnily enough I remember seeing a picture of the innards of a Rennasiance charger where I saw the same thing. Of course I cant be sure that its intended purpose was specifically for power windings.

Interesting to note the different configurations in that patent you posted above, you can see the one I am referring to in there.

Mine was wound around a 15cm form, three wires all 2mm gauge. Pulled some current but dang, it charged well.

Ive been experimenting with large cap pulsing lately too, of course my caps are filled via rotor triggerings, not solid state. I noted that my charging rate was pitiful if I left it too long between pulses. 2 seconds is about the maximum amount of time I use. This gives my 160,000 uF caps a chance to get up to 16v before they are dumped into the charging battery.

I am surprised your relay hasnt packed it in. I welded the contacts shut almost every discharge from caps a 1/4 of that size.

Keep it up.

Regards

[Shamus]

Hi Huckmubb,

That "partial" Bedini circuit is pretty much identical to the SSG circuit. The one in the FEG book is basically based upon the trifilar cap pulser build, so there isn't any deviation as far as I can see.

The more I work with this tech the more I see that John Bedini, Rick Friedrich and others are quite correct when they talk about impedance matching on the charging battery. Yesterday I was trying to charge an old, beat up gel cell that was sitting around 8V on my rebuilt quintfilar (the thing is scary quiet now--I have to look at it to see that it's running ) and the bulb on the trigger lit up fairly well while the RPM stayed lower than normal and the current draw was higher than normal. A quick check on the voltage of the charge battery showed it up around 15V; this battery had high Z! Eventually, over time the bulb started to dim while the RPMs climbed and the amp draw went down. Spot checks on the charge battery voltage showed going down from 15V to 14, 13.2, and eventually down to 12.4. The battery was starting to take a charge, it had lowered it's internal Z to where the quintfilar could actually deliver some power to it.

TL; DR: It's all about the impedance. Learn it, love it.

[Sephiroth]

Can't knock it if it works Some of my first solid state devices used a cap on the trigger circuit...

Is that a toroid?

[Huckmubb]

Hey guys. I did the unspeakable!

I built a hybrid circuit, using "some" of the Bedini schematic and excluding 3/4 of it. It works great. After 3 charge and discharge cycles on 2 (12 volt) gel cell batteries, I got the gel cell batteries boiling at 15.00 volts!

I am NOT using a bridge rectifier or a capacitor anywhere on the charging circuit. It makes it a lot easier, since you don't need a 555 timer or anything like that. I am not using 3 windings either, just 2.

I am using iron dust, and fiberglass resin for the core. Pretty funny looking!!

What I've noticed is that you don't want to use a bridge rectifier, unless you are charging a capacitor as a collector. If you are discharging directly into a battery, then you should remove the bridge rectifier to prevent "conventional current" from charging your batteries.

There is a simple way to build an "impedance sensing" circuit. You just copy the Alexander Meisner circuit. It does the same thing, but uses a slightly different variation. I am currently using the Bedini circuit, but both behave similarly. Both of these auto-start and auto adjusting "self resonating" circuits seem to work excellent, with NO heat or excessive power consumption and really good charging.

# 19 gauge (6.0 ohms) main coil - about 400 feet.
# 30 gauge trigger coil - same length.

The thing about this type of a circuit, the coil charges and discharges at the correct frequency to consume the LEAST amount of power possible, so the transistor doesn't even get remotely warm... However, if you just have a FIXED duty cycle circuit, the coil tends to overcharge with too much current and everything heats up.

The Bedini "partial" circuit - works great!