Peter Daysh Davey Water Heater Query

[PhysicsProf]

So I filled up the bath

- 125 liter ( filled with measurement bucket)
- Stirred and measured start temp: 12 Celsius. (New temp meter Elro M990)
- Put device on bottom
- Left it for 1 hour and 5 minutes
- Device out
- Some good stirring
- End temp 23 Celsius (new temp meter Elro M990)
- Power used 1.7 kWh ( Consumption meter)

According to formula:

................................Ltr......S-Temp.....E-Temp.........Delta-T Sec........kWh......kWh Normal.....Cop
Test 125 liter (bath).....125.....12............23............... 3900.................1,700.....1,788............1, 05


Seems not bad, but not spectacular. Although one has to consider a large heat loss from a metal bath to it's surroundings and air.

Now, i'm going into the bath.

LOL -- good idea to jump into the warm water!

But you're right that over 1hour 5minutes, there will be a large heat loss from the large bath!

Can you put your "heater" into a plastic bucket or something, and insulate the container? (E.g., bubble-wrap).

[Altair]

Thanks for that link, RAMSET
Very impressive !

Some of you know I have heavy equipment and used to do Highrise Demolition In NYC
One of My Cronnies from the old days sent me this [because we did lots of Scary stuff]

Well I never did anything this Scary!!

Liebherr - YouTube

Chet

[Cherryman]

Bath

So I filled up the bath

- 125 liter ( filled with measurement bucket)
- Stirred and measured start temp: 12 Celsius. (New temp meter Elro M990)
- Put device on bottom
- Left it for 1 hour and 5 minutes
- Device out
- Some good stirring
- End temp 23 Celsius (new temp meter Elro M990)
- Power used 1.7 kWh ( Consumption meter)

According to formula:

................................Ltr......S-Temp.....E-Temp.........Delta-T Sec........kWh......kWh Normal.....Cop
Test 125 liter (bath).....125.....12............23............... 3900.................1,700.....1,788............1, 05


Seems not bad, but not spectacular. Although one has to consider a large heat loss from a metal bath to it's surroundings and air.

Now, i'm going into the bath.

[RAMSET]

Off Topic

Some of you know I have heavy equipment and used to do Highrise Demolition In NYC
One of My Cronnies from the old days sent me this [because we did lots of Scary stuff]

Well I never did anything this Scary!!

Liebherr - YouTube

Chet

[Slovenia]

Cap Query Solved

Hi Boguslaw,

Did you have an IKEA thermos to work with? If so, all you have to do is use the bottom you cut off the thermos as your cap. It is a ready made setup for you. You don't have to have anyone make it for you. What you do, is cut the bottom off the thermos as close to the bottom as possible to make your work easier with the cap. You want to cut away as much excess material as possible while you have something to hold onto namely the thermos. Once you have cut the bottom off, it is more difficult to play with the cut off end, because it is to short and small and you don't want to damage your fingers with grinding setup, while trying to grind excess metal away from bottom. Once you cut bottom off thermos, then you can cut where you need to cut on the thermos to expose the two tubes. It is easy if you know how to do it. The outside bottom of the thermos is the exact diameter of cap you want and if you cut it off properly, you don't have much more work to do with it getting it ready. Drilling a hole in the center is easy. Just draw some lines with a magic marker across the bottom from 9 o'clock to 3 & from 6 o'clock to 12 and then for good measure as a check from 7 o'clock to 1. Now use a center punch to dimple where you need to drill where all the lines cross. If you don't have a drill, then you can use a big center punch and keep punching it through the bottom till the hole is the right size for your threaded rod.

You are doing a good job. Thanks for sharing your update with us!!

Best Regards,
Slovenia

Thanks Slovenia ! I stuck with beer can because I cannot find any craftsman willing to prepare a cap for it as I imagined and when I found one ready he wanted too much money

[Slovenia]

Message from Mr. "C" to Boguslaw

The answer to for Boguslav

First, the whole can of beer slowly tapering days of the finest stone paper (sandpaper).

Second, the cap at the top of the cup or ring must play at 50, 100, 200, 400 Hz.

The gap between the electrodes depends on the frequency caps or rings.

Higher frequencies have a smaller gap.

Regards prof.Savić, Serbia

I have questions to Mr "C" about beer can polishing. Did he polished only upper part of can or the whole area ? If I try to polish all area would it be detrimental to the output (because the larger surface of electric hot electrode would be in contact with water) ? Did he also polished a ring to resonate at 400Hz or any cap on top of can as noted on schematics ?

[boguslaw]

I have questions to Mr "C" about beer can polishing. Did he polished only upper part of can or the whole area ? If I try to polish all area would it be detrimental to the output (because the larger surface of electric hot electrode would be in contact with water) ? Did he also polished a ring to resonate at 400Hz or any cap on top of can as noted on schematics ?

Thanks Slovenia ! I stuck with beer can because I cannot find any craftsman willing to prepare a cap for it as I imagined and when I found one ready he wanted too much money

[wrtner]

1 liter water
220V 50Hz
Start temp: 8 celsius
Time to visual heavy boiling: 65 seconds

Ampdraw?
You need a simple AC ammeter - very cheap on Ebay. The cheapest
do not measure AC amps - only DC amps - no good.

Something like this would do:
PROFESSIONAL DIGITAL MULTIMETER 8 FUNCTION TESTER | eBay

Alternatively, something that plugs in the mains, provides a socket for
your appliance, and measures the wattage of that appliance would do.

Also, the boiling point is very vague and imprecise. It might be more
accurate to end after x seconds, stir the liquid VERY thoroughly,
and then measure what the temperature is, hoping that it will be
around the 70 - 80 degrees C mark.

I left a spreadsheet at www.overunityresearch.com at post 238 on
the equivalent thread. This forum does not allow me to leave it
here, for resonas that I do not understand.

Paul-R

[daemonbart]

Quick check!

Hello,

just did a quick check and it looks fine!

Now you can work with different setups, comparing with ourselfs is the only way right now i think?

Mixing water in container for better temp reading would give less good results I am afraid, keep the spirit anyway, experimenting is one key to getting better
results!

Kind rgds D

Ok, lets see if I got this straight.

I entered your (example values) and mine in an excel.



Does this looks right?

As you can see I added a few green dots, do I put there the kWh reading from the Watts meter? Or if not available the: Average of (V x A) ?

The numbers are in red now, at row 9 I added the average VxA amount , At row 10 I just entered the reading from the power consumption meter (kWh)

[Cherryman]

Math

Ok, lets see if I got this straight.

I entered your (example values) and mine in an excel.



Does this looks right?

As you can see I added a few green dots, do I put there the kWh reading from the Watts meter? Or if not available the: Average of (V x A) ?

The numbers are in red now, at row 9 I added the average VxA amount , At row 10 I just entered the reading from the power consumption meter (kWh)

[Cherryman]

Nice

Did you stirr water before you measured ending temp?

Kind rgds D

Nope, I did time untill visual boiling, I'going to get a new temp meter this afternoon.

Still fighting with the math, but I will get there, I'm making an excel sheat to get a better understanding.

So I'm still in the dark, but your thumb up gives me a good motivation to figure it out !

Peace.

[daemonbart]

Blending water?

Nice

Did you stirr water before you measured ending temp?

Kind rgds D

It is almost the same setup as in the two previous videos, I used another outside tube for this one, a smaller gap, and thinner material.

The amp draw is high, this one blew my fuse once.

The instant bubbling occurs when the water is already heated, and just flip the switch.


@all:

Just tried a 10 liter test,

start temp: 15 celsius
End Temp 98 celsius
Time: 17 minutes
Power use according to meter: 0,5 KwH

[Cherryman]

How you did that ? Details ?

It is almost the same setup as in the two previous videos, I used another outside tube for this one, a smaller gap, and thinner material.

The amp draw is high, this one blew my fuse once.

The instant bubbling occurs when the water is already heated, and just flip the switch.


@all:

Just tried a 10 liter test,

start temp: 15 celsius
End Temp 98 celsius
Time: 17 minutes
Power use according to meter: 0,5 KwH

Edit:

@DB

Tnx! I have one digit after the comma, I got a reading 0f 0,5 after 17 minutes. I did not see less as 0,5 , so I have to find out the resolution as well, to see if 0,5 is an accurate reading or the minimal reading.

Off tho the shop now to find a better temp measurement apparatus.

[daemonbart]

Meter!

Good work!

You need more water and longer time to get reading on kWh scale.

Also how many decimals for kWh? If one decimal, first reading will be 100 Wh or 0.1 kWh, if two decimals, first reading will be 10 Wh.

If only heating 1 litre, just take amps * voltage = X, then you take X * time in seconds (on time) = consumed power in Ws (watt seconds).
Ws / 60 = Wm (Watt minuts) and Wm / 60 for Wh (Watt hours)

Ex: 8 amps and 110 volts for 180 seconds = 8*110 = 880W , 880 * 180 = 158 400 Ws , 158 400 / 60 = 2640 Wm , 2640 / 60 = 44 Wh or 0.044 kWh

Heating 1 litre of water from 20 deg C to 100 deg C = 80 "litre degrees", This will consume with usual heater 1,16 Wh * 80 = 92,8 Wh,
in real we dont reach optimal value 1,16 Wh / "litre degree" so calculate with 1,3 Wh instead.

So my ex gives us 80*1,3 = 104 Wh or 0,104 kWh

This is how you can measure if your device is OU

Kind rgds D

So I got this power consumption meter, I need some tips how to measure properly.

I heated 1 liter again, but not sure how to read the power consumption.

During operating I got this:

Start temp 16 Celsius
Start Amp 5.5

During testing amp draw up to almost 10

At boiling amp draw around 7 amps

But why does my KwH stay at zero? (0,0) ?

Why does these things do not come with a proper manual ?


Anyone?

[Slovenia]

Thanks!!

That's pretty incredible Gordon. Thanks for sharing it.

A little exercise of imagination for you

If you join the two vertical ends of the table and roll it into a Donut by joining the two horizontal other ends you get a Rodin Coil: