Peter Daysh Davey Water Heater Query

[RAMSET]

A learning tool ?

Duncan
So we have a learning tool [the boiler ]

I have recently wanted to ask Eric what he thinks about this ?

A Gift IMO!!

THx
Chet

[Duncan]

some ideas to consider.....

Hi all you perhaps remember I did something similar to this with a couple of spoons (seems long ago now) still here's the post on this thread http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post163573 (wow post 619 seems long ago) anyway here's a few thoughts that crossed my mind at the time It may promote a bit more experiment. First I assumed those spoons (cones rings whatever) to be perhaps a capacitor with a dielectric of water.
Having said that there is of course a whole area (excuse the pun) of capacitance and waveforms and energy exchange that is suppressed hidden untaught and by enlarge unknown. As far as the capacitance effect comes into play consider this Physics of Free Energy Device, Revised - YouTube Also part of this untaught theory is a hidden condition of resonance the one that is taught and its effects are discussed as a safety check by the prof In that Instance a Faraday cage was suggested as a test against spurious emissions please be aware that a Faraday cage contrary to all present teaching and theory has absolutely no effect on the linear wave what so ever! As discussed and demonstrated here 20110324185908 (3).mpg - YouTube
I hate to contradict the good Prof but this second resonant point which has been actively hidden and suppressed for years has an entirely different set of mathematics. To put it bluntly since the Time of Tesla and the Intervention of JP Morgan even the language to be able to discuss the theory has been eradicated.
It is here being discussed and demonstrated by EPD
Part 1 of 6: Eric Dollard Tesla Longitudinal wave Energy SBARC Ham Radio with Chris Carson - YouTube
Part 2 of 6: Eric Dollard Tesla Longitudinal Wave Energy SBARC Ham Radio with Chris Carson - YouTube
Part 3 of 6: Eric Dollard Tesla Longitudinal Wave Energy SBARC Ham Radio with Chris Carson - YouTube
Part 4 of 6: Eric Dollard & Chris Carson Tesla Longitudinal Wave Energy SBARC Ham Radio - YouTube
Part 5 of 6: Eric Dollard & Chris Carson Tesla Longitudinal Wave Energy SBARC Ham Radio - YouTube
Part 6 of 6: Eric Dollard & Chris Carson Tesla Longitudinal Wave Energy SBARC Ham Radio - YouTube
I Hate to labour the point but we are using what is effectively an oddly shaped (tuned?)capacitor with a variable moving dielectric and now are aware that variable frequency plays a huge part.
In the operation .. here for your interest are the rest of the Hamilton lecture video's
20110324185908 (1).mpg - YouTube
20110324185908 (2).mpg - YouTube
20110324185908 (3).mpg - YouTube
20110324185908 (3).mpg - YouTube
20110324185908 (5).mpg - YouTube
20110324185908 (6).mpg - YouTube
Given that whatever our academic level is 99.99% will have no knowledge of linear resonance what so ever and none of the mathematics as its been suppressed by academia and tptb.... as a suggestion how about tuning the heater to the mains supply with capacitors in much the same way as the roto verter is tuned would probably prove a cheaper method than using a variable Sine wave generator. circa page 9 of this panacia pdf http://www.panaceauniversity.org/RV.pdf gives the idea (better than sanding if it works) there is a project attatched to the video's to wit.. http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/...pr-21-2011.pdf this tuning method may work with the heater.....
Just food for thought!
There is so little information available on this entirely different sort of electricity which is never taught that we are reduced to blind experimentation
Best wishes Duncan

[wrtner]

Good discussion! I've been thinking about a variable-frequency inverter also -

- I suppose we all have. Is there any way to take an off-the-shelf inverter and modify it for variable freq?

This may be what you are after. Download the attachment
on Post 198: It is called "INVERTER HAKING FOR VARIABLE FREQUENCY" (sic)

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/1507-roto-verter-7.html

Paul-R

[Cherryman]

Hi everyone,

One thing I will say is that I feel it is important to try and standardise our testing procedures as much as we can. Water quality is particularly important as using the water from the tap means you have just about every poison, chemical and heavy metal the government can get away with putting in it, suspended in solution. This completely invalidates any conclusions you may draw about effects you think you are seeing. It would be prudent to organise a standardised, practical method for purifying water for use in experiments. Double steam distillation and collecting the condensate from a gas fired hob and stainless pan would be a good place to start.

Rob

Hi Rob,

I agree, but double steam distillation for a bath tube full of water is a bit above my resources.

I might buy a 10 liter distilled water , and give it a go in comparison with the tap water.

And of-course I'm curious about your project too.

[Cherryman]

Yes, the inner bell is full of water also. The spacing around the sides is quite uniform, about 11 mm, supported on three sides. There is NO SUPPORT under the inner bell, and the separation between the bell bottoms is about 20 mm.

I got several nylon bolts and nuts and spacers, and will see if I can improve the method of holding the inner bell in time.

HOW TO MEASURE THE INPUT POWER?
So I plugged in my "kill-a-watt" meter, but I it seems it only goes down to 0.01 KW-hrs, that is, 10 watt-hours. I need better accuracy than that for this device, something like a watt-minute would be great. I don't trust multiplying V*I, because I is going to jump all over the place with bubbles and boiling. That is, the resistance of the device must be considered (IMO) variable.


Or, I could make it heat a much larger quantity of water, and that way get onto the "kill-a-watt" meter with enough significant precision. That's the best I can think of right now, short of integrating the power measured by a DSO...

Or, perhaps I could buy another kind of watt-hour meter --if it has better precision.

Ideas?

My bottom spacing is almost the same as the side spacing. My cups are perfect cylindrical shapes, so distance is about the same everywhere.
Thinking about the nylon, it is a very solid material, my rubber is hard but not solid, I think it allows for some differences in vibrancy (if occurring) between the two parts.
As you are using 110 volts, the spacing could be half?

As for the measurements, bigger is better indeed. With those small body's of water and time, we will not get an accurate reading. So Yes, large is the way to go! Although your meter as one more digit as mine, you might get better readings with smaller body's.

When I did the bath tube test, 125 liters, My goal was an hour, but to get better readings, I kept my eye on the Wh meter after the hour had past, as soon as I did see a digit jumping up, I killed the power. To get the most accurate reading.

Peace, C'man

[Cherryman]

@Boguslaw

I finished the test.

Setup:

First time:
-Start water: Fresh tapwater 1.5 liter around 17 C
-Time to Boil : 3:30
- peak Watt around 2900

Second time after cooling down
- Start water from yesterday, undisturbed at 18 c
- Time to boil : 4:30 (Depending on what you call boiling) see the vid.
- peak Watt around 2100

Some very clearly visible differences as well.
At the start you clearly see the water is now depleted of excessive oxygen ( I think) and is behaving much different.
Also the Amp draw does not reach as high as the first time, but almost a minute longer to get boiling.

Unfortunately I could not fix the temp-meter in a stationary place, that would have been better. But it is obvious the boiling took longer.

Video with simultaneous picture, speeded up 3 times:

TwiceSameWaterSx3.mp4 - YouTube

[evolvingape]

Off topic... or is it ?

Hi everyone,

Here is something interesting:

http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/ElectrolyseAC.pdf

Quote:

"Choice of frequency may be important. Puharich , US Patent 4,394,230 (1983) used a rectified AM signal, and found resonances in pure water at 3,980 Hz, and octaves 7,960, 15,920, 31840, and 63,690 Hz. It is notable that running all those octave overtones gives a lazy (triangular half cycle) saw tooth wave. It has been conjectured that is why Stanley Meyer operated at around 16,000 Hz. Frequencies between 10 kHz and 200 kHz work well. However, if it is desired to carry a significant current through the electrolyte capacitively then a much higher frequency is required."

I have been watching quietly, and do appreciate the information, videos and progression through actual experimentation that the threads contributors are providing, so keep up the good work all. I am working on something related to this thread, but not a sonic boiler, the information posted about it so far is vague, inconsistent, and not suitable for accurate replication of the claimed effect. It does however provide food for thought for independant investigation along the threads topic theme.

One thing I will say is that I feel it is important to try and standardise our testing procedures as much as we can. Water quality is particularly important as using the water from the tap means you have just about every poison, chemical and heavy metal the government can get away with putting in it, suspended in solution. This completely invalidates any conclusions you may draw about effects you think you are seeing. It would be prudent to organise a standardised, practical method for purifying water for use in experiments. Double steam distillation and collecting the condensate from a gas fired hob and stainless pan would be a good place to start.

Rob

[PhysicsProf]

Haha Great! Playing with heat and power,



The inner Bell is filled with water too? I assume it from your post.

I think it really boiled, and yess you lost heat as quick as well.

The boiling occurs probably at the closest distance, do you have even spacing? Lets say a cm ring boiles .. you have the bubbles, but all the other water is still much cooler. So try finding your boiling point and even out your spacing as much as you can.
Second
The metal acts as a rapid cooler, to the outside air, a large area with little water. As you only heat very locally the water between the two at the closest point. The water in the inside is slowing the heating down because its get heated after the other water has heated the inner bell, and the inner bell gives it to the inside water only after longer boiling and it reaching 99 degrees, it will act neutral. Before that, it will also cool you down rapidly after you turn the power off. The volume off the inner bell, is quite a lot in comparisment with the water between the two.

C'man

Edit: Of to sleep now, be safe!

Yes, the inner bell is full of water also. The spacing around the sides is quite uniform, about 11 mm, supported on three sides. There is NO SUPPORT under the inner bell, and the separation between the bell bottoms is about 20 mm.

I got several nylon bolts and nuts and spacers, and will see if I can improve the method of holding the inner bell in time.

HOW TO MEASURE THE INPUT POWER?
So I plugged in my "kill-a-watt" meter, but I it seems it only goes down to 0.01 KW-hrs, that is, 10 watt-hours. I need better accuracy than that for this device, something like a watt-minute would be great. I don't trust multiplying V*I, because I is going to jump all over the place with bubbles and boiling. That is, the resistance of the device must be considered (IMO) variable.


Or, I could make it heat a much larger quantity of water, and that way get onto the "kill-a-watt" meter with enough significant precision. That's the best I can think of right now, short of integrating the power measured by a DSO...

Or, perhaps I could buy another kind of watt-hour meter --if it has better precision.

Ideas?

[Cherryman]

Yep, having fun -- thanks, c-man.

OK, sunset here -- too dark for good video. But 120 ml of water went bubbling/boiling? in 10.5 seconds. Some steam evident. I had done prior testing, so the temps to start were as follow:

Inner bell: 117 F
Between bells: 129 F

Now, after about 30 seconds after shut-down, I remeasured the temps and found:

Inner bell: 145 F
Between bells: 152 F

Sorry, will switch to degrees-C... but the point is, was this boiling really, and the temp afterwards dropped rapidly -- or was the bubbling due largely to electrolysis?? If electrolysis, why does it take 10 seconds to get to bubbling instead of immediately? Hypothesis: boiling water occurred. Comments welcomed.

Bells in a pyrex graduated bowl, bottom bell sits on the pyrex glass -- but surrounded by air for these tests.

Haha Great! Playing with heat and power,



The inner Bell is filled with water too? I assume it from your post.

I think it really boiled, and yess you lost heat as quick as well.

The boiling occurs probably at the closest distance, do you have even spacing? Lets say a cm ring boiles .. you have the bubbles, but all the other water is still much cooler. So try finding your boiling point and even out your spacing as much as you can.
Second
The metal acts as a rapid cooler, to the outside air, a large area with little water. As you only heat very locally the water between the two at the closest point. The water in the inside is slowing the heating down because its get heated after the other water has heated the inner bell, and the inner bell gives it to the inside water only after longer boiling and it reaching 99 degrees, it will act neutral. Before that, it will also cool you down rapidly after you turn the power off. The volume off the inner bell, is quite a lot in comparisment with the water between the two.

C'man

Edit: Of to sleep now, be safe!

[PhysicsProf]

Yep, having fun -- thanks, c-man.

OK, sunset here -- too dark for good video. But 120 ml of water went bubbling/boiling? in 10.5 seconds. Some steam evident. I had done prior testing, so the temps to start were as follow:

Inner bell: 117 F
Between bells: 129 F

Now, after about 30 seconds after shut-down, I remeasured the temps and found:

Inner bell: 145 F
Between bells: 152 F

Sorry, will switch to degrees-C... but the point is, was this boiling really, and the temp afterwards dropped rapidly -- or was the bubbling due largely to electrolysis?? If electrolysis, why does it take 10 seconds to get to bubbling instead of immediately? Hypothesis: boiling water occurred. Comments welcomed.

Bells in a pyrex graduated bowl, bottom bell sits on the pyrex glass -- but surrounded by air for these tests.

[Cherryman]

About the tiny white bubbles in my previous video, I called it Hydrogen or else, I think it is else;

I think it is mostly excessive oxygen being worked out of the water. It seems to manifest primarily with fresh tap water and after that not returning anymore, not even the next day or way less if I recall well.

As the heated layers are very clear visible floating on top of cooler layers.. It almost looks like oily behavior. So Maybe the water depleted from its excessive oxygen is behaving more like a dens fluid. At least visible.

So we are creating "Heavy" light water.. Wonder if there is a market for

We will know more in the morning when i will film the startup of the same water again.

Edit:

Another strange observation, If you look at the water level at the starts and end after the first boiling (around 6:50 ) The water level has risen a cm. Thats curious, of course a tiny evaporated, a tiny got spilled, but still a cm in height. And I did not move jar or camera. Well hot things have a tendency to grow, but nice to see.

[Cherryman]

@PProf,

Great! Your setup in the 2cnd picture is exactly what I have, although the measurements will differ. I hope you do not forget to put a spacer at the bottom too! ;-)

Looking forward to your vids and findings, Have fun!

C'man

@BogusLaw

Started the test. Fresh water at 17 degrees, to boiling. Now I have to let it cool down, unfortunately my room is not cold enough to get the 17 Celsius back, but I will see what it will be in the morning, and restart the test.

I do know 2cnd time boiling gives a different effect, amp draw seems different to.
As for the Singing bowl, some of them telling/reporting water has "memory" as well!

Edit: First part of processing on youtube now, a boring 8 minutes and don't mind my English! ;-) FreshWaterV1500CC - YouTube


Edit 2: Prof, I can not see the material U use for the spacing, it looks like plastic or rubber hose. Be aware the heat will soften it, and could loosen up your inner cup. It will not get above 100C but I had some LEGO deforming, and some soft rubber like material getting way to soft. I now use hard rubber. Also the force while full boiling are quite aggressive, in some of my clips you can see the whole setup jumping around.

My two cents : Do not start drilling too soon, as holes do not easy grow back. Try some (stable) other ways first. Also the clamps at the cups will alter your "resonance" frequency, but I did not let that bother me. My device as a whole is rather solid due to the pressed in spacers.

[PhysicsProf]

C'man: In the US, one wire from the mains is 'hot' AC, and the other is grounded. I don't know what they do in other countries.

You inspired me to get going with real testing of my own, Cherryman.
(Also Chet, Slovenia, D-bart, Mr. C, etc!)

Attached are the 5 metal "bells" -- I found some at the local thrift store!

Then I selected two of them, and arranged them in a nested system like we have been talking about. The two I selected ring audibly with tones close to B and B-flat (below middle C), so close to 240 Hz.

Yes, I want to drill them and attach the wires more permanently (and safely). I will be using gloves when running at 110 V, and goggles or glasses.
DaemonBart also noted some strange behaviors in the water....
Hmmm... video tomorrow hopefully. Gotta run this evening!

[Cherryman]

Superheated droplet?

See this at the two second mark, a drop shoots out the top, and "explodes" on the ground, you even hear it "pops"

Superheated water? Or energized water wich I can pour in my car? ;-)

Warning: Shortest Youtube clip ever ;-)

SHW1.mp4 - YouTube

As for replicators, wear glasses and do not stand too close! Thats why I use the camera. If you might have fabricated a super heater, you do NOT want to be hit by a gulf of superheated water jumping out your test-setup while you a looking in it.

[Cherryman]

Hi Boguslaw, Tnx for replying.

I'm not gonna dispute you on the theory behind it.

Do have a question: what is the "Hot" electrode as the input is AC?

I can tell you what I think after my observations, but then keep in mind my device is not tuned and perfected as the other ones around here:

- The metal is not heating the water, the water itself is heated by the effect occurring between the electrodes, This also explains the immediate stop and go, (If the metal was heated it would after cook a little)

The cavitation part I think has merit, I see some strange wearing of my SS cup (strangely enough on the outside). Besides cavitation the vibrations could cause some metal fatigue added too it as well.

Finally about the shape:

I did some particle testing ( as shown a few posts back) And I think a tube or similar type shape is better. With a ball shape you focus on one point, this point can not get much hotter as 100 Celsius, so you have all energy focused in one place. This way you could overpower the spot. With a tube shaped device you get a larger heating area, so you will be able to heat faster. Of course the price for more area could be input power, so we will see ;-)

About the temp rise. I will see if I can do one more video from 20 to boiling in a larger jar, with temps and Amps.

Peace, C'man