Peter Daysh Davey Water Heater Query

[Slovenia]

Branislav Illness Update

He's not doing well. He was allowed home for the weekend but will be returning to hospital Monday. He still has blood in his stool. They can't seem to get that stopped.

How is young Branislov doing?
Chet

[RAMSET]

Thank you to Mr.C

Quote:
Chet,
Glad you saw ultrasonic heater on forum and asked about it. I have been in contact with Timothy Trampp a year ago and he was trying to make a sonic boiler but could not write to me. I'm very sorry about it. I asked him what frequency ultrasonic boiler for him and he told me to work on three frequencies resonating. I remember the 330 KHz and he told me that he had another hemisphere inside the ball. He lied to me. There is one. The ball resonates at 82.5 KHz to thick hemispherical electrode is zero. Inside the first hemisphere to resonate at 165KHz is the first harmonic. A third small to 330KHz, and it is the second harmonic phase. You saw the same principle in the original Sonic boiler but the AC current sine excitation current. In the ultrasonic 9 V battery and ultrasound vibrates the crystal lattice of metal to cause the collapse of the electron and the vacuum energy withdraw from the system of high frequency.

The ultrasonic boiler must not be used to water heated to 50 C, and put it on him.
If you put tap into it and changing the frequency does not work (not heated).

Answer your questions?

-----------------------------------
Thank you for that answer this one looks trickier !
I suppose we'll be learning more and more as time goes on !

How is young Branislov doing?

Chet

[Slovenia]

OU

We have people on this forum who are getting OU with these principles. I won't mention any names, but they are getting it. The key is to tune the tube to the appropriate frequency either by sanding or electronic means. If you get it tuned to the right frequency and then you get your ring the right gap, then you will enjoy OU. The dimensions of the ring are important too as well as the diameter and thickness of the tube metal.

Hmm, I am very busy lately, and currently dot have time to look for all posts on the forum, but have you tried so far beer can and got OU or got OU with other principle ?

I wonder,why using physical acoustic properties of metal objects , when we can use current with all harmonics we need, hmm? maybe effect will be the same or maybe better(or worse) .

For example class D amplifier (more than 90% eff) that drives electrodes maybe may be used , and for input signal we use simple sine or wave that has many harmonics .. 50 hz 500 hz etc,,.
But instead making complex metal object we may use simple two plates , which will be vibrated by current that contains desired harmonics

[quantumuppercut]

OK, I have some first results from my sonic boiler (SBSJ1) set up, as shown in photo previously.

I will show my method for determining Pinput and Poutput and the results, and invite comments on both.

I have a CEN-TECH P3 "Kill-a-watt" meter that displays KW-H to 0.01 accuracy. I ran this P3 meter with a load until it just turned on the display to 0.05 KWH. Next I ran my SBSJ1 device until it reached boiling (which stirs the water), stopped registering the time elapsed with a stop-watch, 62 seconds. I quickly measured Temperatures inside the inner bell and between the inner and outer bells using an infrared temp probe.

I let the sbsj1 cool (to 98F) and ran a second time with the same measurements, and this time the P3 turned to 0.06 KWH, so I stopped the run there to take measurements, 31s. The total elapsed time was 62+31 = 93 s.

By using the P3 JUST AS the reading turns to a higher value, increasing by 0.01KWH, I believe the accuracy is quite good, probably within 10% with this method.

Consider a 100W bulb for 1 hour = 0.1 KWH. Thus, 0.01 KWH in 1/10th hour = 6 minutes = 360 s.
Here in my experiment we have 0.01 KWH in 93 seconds, so the power is more than 100W, and I calculate:
Pin = 360s/93s X 100W = 387W.

Next, to calculate the output power, first I calculate the heat-energy Q calorimetrically, using the Temp-rise in the water.
Q = Cg X m X (Tfinal - Tinitial).

For the first run of 62 s, Tfinal - Tinitial = 147Fahr - 83F = 64F = 36Celsius temp rise.
For the second run of 31 s, Tfinal - Tinitial = 145F - 98F = 47F = 26Celsius temp rise.


Here, Q = 4.18 [J/g-C] X 125g X 36C = 18810 J for the first run, and
Q = 4.18 [J/g-C] X 125g X 26C = 14120 J for the second run.
Total heat measured, Qtotal = 32930 J in 93 s, so
Pout = Q/total-time = 32930J/93s = 354W.

Which is less than Pinput.

Finally, I calculate the efficiency n = Pout/Pin = 354W/387W = 0.91. Not surprising -- NO tuning attempted for this base-line run.


Any comments on the method or the results?
Thanks,
Steve

Good test run. At least we know what to expect from resistive heating (hopefully it is not tuned as you said lol) I see you have to watch each time the number jump on KWH. Each jump is 36000J, ouch. This is why you have to stop the test to cool the boiler down and continue just to meet the jump.

If the meter has watts displace, we can use that to shorten the test time, but in turn using power for COP like you're doing.

[grizli]

Can needs to be tuned to 50 Hz for EU and 60 Hz for USA. When properly fitted with the right ring and gap, the can will play at a higher level. If I recall right, 300 Hz for EU and 400 Hz for USA. That's from memory. If it is tuned properly to Mr. "C"s specs, it will operate at a COP of 10 for EU and COP of 12 for USA.

That was Mr. "C"s post. I don't know anything about harmonics myself.

Hmm, I am very busy lately, and currently dot have time to look for all posts on the forum, but have you tried so far beer can and got OU or got OU with other principle ?

I wonder,why using physical acoustic properties of metal objects , when we can use current with all harmonics we need, hmm? maybe effect will be the same or maybe better(or worse) .

For example class D amplifier (more than 90% eff) that drives electrodes maybe may be used , and for input signal we use simple sine or wave that has many harmonics .. 50 hz 500 hz etc,,.
But instead making complex metal object we may use simple two plates , which will be vibrated by current that contains desired harmonics

[Slovenia]

Can Tuning

Can needs to be tuned to 50 Hz for EU and 60 Hz for USA. When properly fitted with the right ring and gap, the can will play at a higher level. If I recall right, 300 Hz for EU and 400 Hz for USA. That's from memory. If it is tuned properly to Mr. "C"s specs, it will operate at a COP of 10 for EU and COP of 12 for USA.

That was Mr. "C"s post. I don't know anything about harmonics myself.

CAN has to produce harmonics ?

[Cherryman]

@Prof,

Good work. About the insulation, I read about at the neighbors, tinfoil around it.. Could that be dangerous?
(Leyden Jar) I'm no expert, so it might not be related, but with these voltages and boiling water.. Anyway,

Keep up the good work!

[Slovenia]

Mr. "C" Reply to Chet

Chet,
Glad you saw ultrasonic heater on forum and asked about it. I have been in contact with Timothy Trampp a year ago and he was trying to make a sonic boiler but could not write to me. I'm very sorry about it. I asked him what frequency ultrasonic boiler for him and he told me to work on three frequencies resonating. I remember the 330 KHz and he told me that he had another hemisphere inside the ball. He lied to me. There is one. The ball resonates at 82.5 KHz to thick hemispherical electrode is zero. Inside the first hemisphere to resonate at 165KHz is the first harmonic. A third small to 330KHz, and it is the second harmonic phase. You saw the same principle in the original Sonic boiler but the AC current sine excitation current. In the ultrasonic 9 V battery and ultrasound vibrates the crystal lattice of metal to cause the collapse of the electron and the vacuum energy withdraw from the system of high frequency.

The ultrasonic boiler must not be used to water heated to 50 C, and put it on him.
If you put tap into it and changing the frequency does not work (not heated).

Answer your questions?

WITTS!! Hot water heater??

Thats the holy Grail !!

Can you add more about the "ultrasonic heater" Part ?

Oh My!!
THX
Chet

[RAMSET]

Professor Savic PLEASE more info

WITTS!! Hot water heater??

Thats the holy Grail !!

Can you add more about the "ultrasonic heater" Part ?

Oh My!!
THX
Chet

[grizli]

THIS MAKES NO SENSE !!!

As you can see Davey heater is VERY SMALL = resonance frequency of that cone is probably VERY HIGH and has nothing to do with 50Hz current

Is not it logical to assume that NUMBER 4, is ELASTIC material , which makes those spheres to resonant at 50hz ONLY by current that goes through !!
WHY would metal have to resonate at 50Hz? we can make two much harder thicker smaller piece of metal (instead beer can or ikea bottle) and connected them with elastic material , that will make them vibrate at 50 hz which is AC current frequency !?!?

[grizli]

Second, the cap at the top of the cup or ring must play at 50, 100, 200, 400 Hz.

CAN has to produce harmonics ?

[Cherryman]

cherryman your link showing error

Strange, this should do it:

Vermogensregelaar 110-240 V~, 4000 VA - Vermogensregelaar-bouwpakketten - Conrad Electronic

Price ain't bad , E 29,-

[Slovenia]

Sorry To Hear!!

Hi Mike,

Sorry to hear about your situation. We are all pulling for you and you are in our prayers too.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

Sorry all, have just noticed the mistake I have made in the above post, IT IS NOW CORRECTED. It should read that the mains 120/240v side is the low vltage control side.

My excuse is that I have not been too well in the last few weeks, I am going into hospital on monday for scans etc "hope they do not hit the erase button" as it seems I have had a small stroke which caused me to see double for a few days.

Mike

[Slovenia]

New Diagram from Mr. "C"

New Diagram from Mr. "C"

Timothy Thrapp Ultrasonic Water Heater (WITTS)

[Duncan]

Sorry all, have just noticed the mistake I have made in the above post, IT IS NOW CORRECTED. It should read that the mains 120/240v side is the low vltage control side.

My excuse is that I have not been too well in the last few weeks, I am going into hospital on monday for scans etc "hope they do not hit the erase button" as it seems I have had a small stroke which caused me to see double for a few days.

Mike

All the very best Mike !! Not the best of starts for 2012 thoughts are with you ..take care