Peter Daysh Davey Water Heater Query

[Slovenia]

Yes

Hi Osamaricu_te,

Yes, I am usually a very mild mannered fellow but this has not been a good past year for me. Anyway, thanks for getting back to me. I don't mind if you post your results here on the thread, but please don't infer that it is impossible to really get a COP>1 on this project. When I read your post that is the meaning I got from it. I will go back and read it again. If I misunderstood your post I am very sorry indeed!! It is good that you have been experimenting and we are glad for that. I need to get back to experimenting myself.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

thats unusual to hear from you... I never said time invested is lost or did I say its crap. I just said that with the equipment I bought solely for this experiment, that can change frequency of AC as desired to match ANY frequency you can come up with has shown no change what so ever in COP. Matching its frequency with numerous different gaps or not matching the frequency. COP stays exactly the same, but since I see you as main figure in this topic and I appreciate all your comments so far and all you done, I will do as you say.
I will not post here unless I manage to get COP >1
Sorry if I offended you.

[osamaricu_te]

This device when tuned properly according to provided specifications will give you a high COP!! If you were not able to get a COP>1 please don't share your results on this thread and make statements inferring that our device is a waste of time and/or crap. That is pure nonsense and not appreciated.

thats unusual to hear from you... I never said time invested is lost or did I say its crap. I just said that with the equipment I bought solely for this experiment, that can change frequency of AC as desired to match ANY frequency you can come up with has shown no change what so ever in COP. Matching its frequency with numerous different gaps or not matching the frequency. COP stays exactly the same, but since I see you as main figure in this topic and I appreciate all your comments so far and all you done, I will do as you say.
I will not post here unless I manage to get COP >1
Sorry if I offended you.

I can say that my time invested in Savic device have been keeping my family warm for a long time now!

Also warming close friends to me, hope soon I can help more friends!

Kind rgds D

I am truly glad for you and if one day I manage to do the same will post it.

Until then...

[Slovenia]

Thanks!!

Thanks Mr. D!!

I can say that my time invested in Savic device have been keeping my family warm for a long time now!

Also warming close friends to me, hope soon I can help more friends!

Kind rgds D

[daemonbart]

Well spoken!

I can say that my time invested in Savic device have been keeping my family warm for a long time now!

Also warming close friends to me, hope soon I can help more friends!

Kind rgds D

This device when tuned properly according to provided specifications will give you a high COP!! If you were not able to get a COP>1 please don't share your results on this thread and make statements inferring that our device is a waste of time and/or crap. That is pure nonsense and not appreciated.

[Slovenia]

Cop>1

This device when tuned properly according to provided specifications will give you a high COP!! If you were not able to get a COP>1 please don't share your results on this thread and make statements inferring that our device is a waste of time and/or crap. That is pure nonsense and not appreciated.

[boguslaw]

I'm polishing my cap and it become thinner and thinner each day but frequency do not change a lot. I'm stuck with 259Hz. Do you have any idea how to change frequency of such shape like bell by making any notches or holes ? Is frequency 200Hz good instead of 400Hz ?

[boguslaw]

I have a feeling that if we could have two frequencies things would be easier.
My personal believe is that hot electrode has to have only thin walls and proper dimensions without tuning, it will anyway resonate at 50Hz, but outer electrode is a clue for me.If I could just put there any frequency I need I could proof my theory but that's beyond my capability.

[osamaricu_te]

progress report

Hi all,

Not too many posts behind me but I actively follow this forum for some time and in last 30 days or more, I have been following this topic.

Reason I didnt reply here sooner is because I didnt have anything to report (at least nothing worthy).

Now I am here with some news.

In last 15 or 20 days (dont know precisely) I have been tinkering with this. I even bought a device that can change frequency of AC. I have aquired different transformers to test different voltages, I purchased different materials, different shapes, different gaps, different sizes and different resonate frequencies.
THINGS I DIDNT TEST are 50Hz sanding and sphere shapes.

Tested materials with 100 Hz frequency and many many more.
In course of testing this device, I tested at least 30-40 DIFFERENT setups. I even disassembled air purifier that has very nice setup for this device. Multiple plates with + and - separated and very neatly mounted on bars. anyway, like I said, I tested a LOT, but I want to name all I tested (at least what I can remember) since it might assist someone in what they want to do or give an idea:

Soooo here is what I tested.

at least 20 different setups involving. Cans, stainless steel tubes, copper tubes, aluminum tubes of different dimensions(height/diameter). Thinner ones resonated on 100Hz - 106.1 Hz, thicker ones I couldnt find resonating frequency (ALL resonating frequencies were discovered very precisely by using 2 methods. Microphone to analyzer then high volume MONO speaker against object with something very small touching it). So I tested them against each other. Some with same resonate frequency, some with higher frequency on outside, then inside, then - outside +inside, then +outside, - inside.

Then I tested all setups on different frequencies by doing VERY VERY slow sweep through very small range by range.

Then I tested all above setups with AC power frequency changed to resonate frequency of inside + power used, then -.

Then I tested IKEA setup (bought very nice thermos) with bottom cut off, tested it in different setups.

Tested all above, especially 100Hz resonating ones of inside tube on regular 50Hz AC power with all setups.


Anyway, I tested a whole lot, wasted a lot of time (I dont mind).

Once again, I DIDNT test prof.savic recommended process of sanding can to 50Hz (I tried to sand it to 50Hz but I just get wholes whenever I get closer to 50Hz, can just gets too thin and it ruptures and if I sand further, it ruptures and makes a big hole).

I also didnt test sphere shaped object, simply cause I didnt find any good ones or suitable.

Finally, after all testing, I did get instant bubles a lot and thats all nice, I was able to heat various quantities of water fast BUT what I didnt get is OU. I sincerely doubt there is any here. I mean, I got something you could call OU with COP of 1.1, several times, but I write that off to mistakes of WATT meter. This is 1.1 COP compared to the theoretical energy needed to heat water to boiling temp of 100 C.
One more thing, when measuring do NOT get fooled by having top of your water containing jar boiling. STOP, stir the water, then proceed. You can get first 2 cm of water boiling while the rest is cold!

I know it is said there are "people" who have achieved OU but after all this testing (and more that I dont remember) I sincerely doubt it (this goes for people testing tubes in ways I did, not for experiments I DIDNT do such as savic can sanded to 50Hz or whatever else there is and I didnt test it)

I wish you all luck, I will take a break on this one, hope to hear others update their progress.

[Cherryman]

8 liter test

Did a test with my new set up. (For the record: A non tuned, different design, just to toy with the idea)

Ltr S-Temp E-Temp Delta-T kWh kWhNormal Efficiency
8 23 72 770 0,500 0,510 1,02



I do have boiling now from the outside and underneath as well, here is a short clip: Outside boiling - YouTube

[MonsieurM]

evolvingape, I think you might like this

from: Triangle Book - Iona Miller Home, 2012





from: caduceus3

KeelyNet.com ( MAY 11, 1994 )
CADUFAZE.ASC
by Joel McClain

In looking at the presumed design of the Sweet VTA, (presumed as a result of the lack of detailed information available) I have coined the term "alternate depletion" to describe its method of attaining ZP energy.

We know from conventional transformer theory that a transformer will reverse the phase of the primary signal in the secondary winding. This is caused by the inverse relationship of EMF and CEMF in the core of the transformer. Typically, the core is made of iron laminates, or some other ferrous material. The Sweet VTA uses this principle in a manner which uses the phase reversal to cause a cascade of energies.

The dual caduceus coils ( DMC coil is a variant of it ) are seen as next to each other, which permits inductive coupling, and within the field of opposing magnetic fields, which creates a stress within the cores of the caduceus coils. At the crossover points of each coil, the flux collapse is "assisted" by the stress field of the core. The stress field, similar to a conventional electric generator, oscillates the lattice structure of the copper wire, causing movement of electrons.

Energy "stored" in the stress field is added to the energy of the original flux collapse, because it is "pushed" in by the opposing energy of the other caduceus coil. That is the effect of reversed phasing, as mentioned earlier. While one crossover field is collapsing, the corresponding coil is expanding, which adds more stress field energy than that which was originally "displaced".

This continues to occur at each crossover point. The displacement caused by the "push" results in am imbalance in the stress field. As the process reverses, and the alternate coil's field collapses, it is aided by the "push" from the expanding field of the first coil. The current induced in the second coil is greater than the current in the first coil, because the "push" of the first coil is composed of its original energy, plus the "push" of the first coil.

This continues to increase the energy at each crossover point, yielding far greater energy at the output of the coils than that which was used to begin the process. The energy is amplified through each winding in a cascade effect.

Core saturation, normally undesirable in a power transformer, is required in the Sweet VTA design. The power attained will depend upon the strength of the cores. Power will increase until the core is saturated, and no longer able to expand energy into the magnetic field.

Why does the field collapse at each winding? This is at the heart of every caduceus coil. When wires are laid over each other, a capacitance is formed, and the capacitance cancels the inductance of the windings before the crossover point. This causes field collapse into the core, and then into the next winding.

A Tesla coil uses the same principle, in that a frequency is applied which is resonant at the value of LC, causing the series impedance to consist of wire resistance only.

From this, we can see that the current which is used to excite a caduceus coil must also be resonant relative to the length of the windings and the amount of crossover capacitance. To determine the appropriate frequency, the volume of the core as well as a resonating chamber must also be taken into account. The core is essentially a resonant cavity, and you need to apply a frequency which will cause it to resonate.

Think of the core as a hollow cylinder, to which you will apply a musical note until it resonates. The core density is irrelevant to resonance, and applies only when considering saturation. Try using an ordinary "tin can", opened on one end, and apply acoustic energy until you reach resonance, and hear the energy "ringing" back at you. (like the B Flat experience )

Having determined the resonant frequency of the core, then add the windings as if they were the holes in a flute, with a crossover at each "hole". In other words, even spacing is not going to work. Each crossover needs to be preceded by a length of wire which is calculated based upon the PHI relationship to resonance. (harmonic Math )

The caduceus coil has to attain aggregate resonance before it can produce an over-unity effect (I prefer Unity ), so each of the seven crossovers is a whole note on the diatonic scale. In other words, use alternate cube and square roots of PHI (1.618) times the length of the previous winding to determine the length of the next winding.

In this way, every winding is both a note as well as a harmonic of another winding.

Both coils of the Sweet VTA must be wound identically, placed side by side, and centered in the magnetic stress field. The primary for each coil should apply a low level signal at the resonant frequency, and the primaries should be 180 degrees out of phase with each other to aid in the expansion and collapse of the flux fields

[RAMSET]

Rob You truly are amazing Bud!

Thank you so much ...
you leave me at a lack for words .

unbelievable how you grasp and explain things!!

Chet

[evolvingape]

Since the bowls are usually small, there is no question of tuning
to the mains frequency of 50hz (or sometimes 60hz). Instead,
people are tuning to an octave, namely 100, 200, 400 etc
(or in the States with 60hz, 120, 240, 480hz etc).

i.e. octaves and NOT harmonics.

It is imprtant to note that the bowls should be tuned "in situ".
If they are tuned on the bench, and then assembled, the resonant
frequency usually changes because the manner of holding the
bowl changes.

Paul-R

Hi,

The above quote is not entirely correct. When discussing vibration in relation to harmonics reference must be made to the fundamental frequency (f). In the above example 50Hz is not the fundamental frequency, 1Hz is the fundamental frequency as we are measuring in reference to complete cycles per second. So in actual fact the mains AC electricity is oscillating at a frequency of 50f or 50 complete cycles per second which is 50Hz.

So for the given example of tuning to 100, 200, 400 HZ we are in fact tuning to a frequency of 100f, 200f, 400f respective to the fundamental frequency.

An octave is either 1/2n or 2n in respect to a given harmonic of n. It is possible to tune to a frequency which is a harmonic, and which is also an octave of a lower or higher harmonic.

You must also consider that when tuning via sound you are measuring the harmonic of the fluid column within the tube or bell etc and not the vibratory rate of the solids molecules within the structure itself.

When submersed under water you would need a hydrophone (underwater microphone) to measure the frequency which will be different to an air measurement due to the differing densities of water and air which alters the speed at which sound will propogate through that medium.

The AC electrical signal is an electromagnetic phenomenon and not a sonic phenomenon and so the only relationship between the two is cycles per second of the mediums, measured in Hertz.

If you wanted to measure the actual vibratory oscillation rate of the mechanical structure of your device (tube, bell, etc) you would use an accelerometer which would record the oscillations and tell you the frequency of vibration. You might be able to get a small cheap accelerometer with the appropiate diagnostic software for your computer from the RC model aircraft industry, amongst other industries, alternatively you can google or have a look on youtube how to build an accelerometer.

Rob

Fundamental frequency - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hertz - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Harmonic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Octave - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Accelerometer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[wrtner]

Yes, there is a thread here:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/1414-daveys-water-heater.html

Since the bowls are usually small, there is no question of tuning
to the mains frequency of 50hz (or sometimes 60hz). Instead,
people are tuning to an octave, namely 100, 200, 400 etc
(or in the States with 60hz, 120, 240, 480hz etc).

i.e. octaves and NOT harmonics.

It is imprtant to note that the bowls should be tuned "in situ".
If they are tuned on the bench, and then assembled, the resonant
frequency usually changes because the manner of holding the
bowl changes.

Paul-R

[Cherryman]

Next step

So I finally took the drill and made setup capable of resonating/vibrating.

Drilled a hole in both bottoms, made an isolated connection and connected the wires at the bottom.

The drawing below is an accurate representation of my device.

- Green is rubber isolation
- Blue is one phase
- Lavender is the other phase

When I ping them they give a nice tone now ( Due to removal of crocodile wire connections at the top and side spacers) , I tried to find the frequency with a Visual Analyzer, but It seems I have to study the Visual Analizer first I seem to have a peak always at 50Hz, I assume this is interference from my mains.
Visual Analyser details





First impression: A small test showed high Amps! Not done proper measurement yet, but it looks like much higher amp draw. Example, while boiling first setup real time use around 700 <> 1000 W , this version uses around 1500 <> 1900 W
The Boiling seems more aggressive ( Which would be suspected as of the higher W use)

Ok So far this little update

Peace (And health) for All.

[Slovenia]

Easiest OU Device on Energetic

This is by far the easiest device to make on Energetic Forum or for that fact anywhere, so I don't see why others are not doing it. Maybe it seems to easy; Maybe they don't believe it's OU; Maybe they are lazy; Maybe they are not builders?? Tuning of the cans by sanding takes a lot of time but can be done and for those who don't want to sand to tune, Daemonbart has shared other options.