Water Sparkplug

[Kinetix]

Hi all.
Greg, nice work indeed. I'm glad it works. How does your Bug accelerates now on the street? Keep us updated with the mpg (L/100km) too, please.
jstadwater, the goal is not to obtain any type of blow. We need it only between the spark plug's electrodes.
If you want us to help with the protection issue, you should give us the schematic of that ignition to think at, and the wiring in your setup, too.
All the best.

[gmeast]

Fantastic!

Hey Guys,

I just hooked up a HEI Distributor from a Chevy 350 to fire plasma! I have it locked in a vice on the bench, wired out to an external coil, worked great charging the cap to 120V. HOWEVER, when I added a voltage doubler circuit to the cap, I fried the ignition module. (I wanted that extra bang, just got it in the wrong place) My fault, I think, I failed to isolate the grounding circuits from each other. Question is this, what would be a good way to "in-line" protect the module from harm's way? Would a few 1 amp fuses in all directions from the module be a good start? It was perfectly happy with the cap firing at 120V. Closer to 300V.......not so happy. Don't want to switch to frying modules instead of inverters. The inverters only cost $40, my boss just replaced the module, it was $55. I have spark again now. This underway experiment is an attemp to fuse together the "piggy-back" Nexus circuit technology with the "gmeast" "super isolated CDI plasma" circuit technology. Since I like both circuits, why not try to use a degree of both circuits and hook up a V-8 to see if it will work well enough. My boss just got a digital video camera that will allow me to FINALLY upload videos to the computer and then the web. I will be recording my first EVER video to upload maybe later today, subject.....V-8 HEI CDI Plasma!!! (if I can keep from frying ignition modules, that is). Wish me luck, any insight on protecting the ignition module is appreciated and needed. Thanks everyone for all the help freely given here. Later.......................................Mike

Well, this is how progress is made ... takes someone with guts to try things. Best of luck!

Greg

[jstadwater]

Ignition module question..............

Hey Guys,

I just hooked up a HEI Distributor from a Chevy 350 to fire plasma! I have it locked in a vice on the bench, wired out to an external coil, worked great charging the cap to 120V. HOWEVER, when I added a voltage doubler circuit to the cap, I fried the ignition module. (I wanted that extra bang, just got it in the wrong place) My fault, I think, I failed to isolate the grounding circuits from each other. Question is this, what would be a good way to "in-line" protect the module from harm's way? Would a few 1 amp fuses in all directions from the module be a good start? It was perfectly happy with the cap firing at 120V. Closer to 300V.......not so happy. Don't want to switch to frying modules instead of inverters. The inverters only cost $40, my boss just replaced the module, it was $55. I have spark again now. This underway experiment is an attemp to fuse together the "piggy-back" Nexus circuit technology with the "gmeast" "super isolated CDI plasma" circuit technology. Since I like both circuits, why not try to use a degree of both circuits and hook up a V-8 to see if it will work well enough. My boss just got a digital video camera that will allow me to FINALLY upload videos to the computer and then the web. I will be recording my first EVER video to upload maybe later today, subject.....V-8 HEI CDI Plasma!!! (if I can keep from frying ignition modules, that is). Wish me luck, any insight on protecting the ignition module is appreciated and needed. Thanks everyone for all the help freely given here. Later.......................................Mike

[gotoluc]

Hi Greg, Luc and all.

Here is some books i found on alcohol and cars, its mixed in with 260 meg of Alt energy books on wind/solar etc.

Of cause its for research purposes only
Solar Wind and Alternative Energy eBooks AIO
Download:MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service
(put in the code on the right hand side to down load)

Thanks Ash,

I'm downloading it now

Luc

[ashtweth]

Hi Greg, Luc and all.

Here is some books i found on alcohol and cars, its mixed in with 260 meg of Alt energy books on wind/solar etc.

Of cause its for research purposes only
Solar Wind and Alternative Energy eBooks AIO
Download:MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service
(put in the code on the right hand side to down load)

[gmeast]

alcohol

Hi Greg, if you start testing with alcohol I would recommend you pickup one of those digital BBQ roasting temperature gauge. They have a remote temperature probe with a braided stainless wire lead shield which is about 24" long. Wedge the probe between the cooling fins of the engine head so you can monitor the temperature as you are testing as things could get too hot. I pick one up for my half GEET engine test to monitor exhaust temperature and the nice thing about these is they have an alarm you can set to go off at a temperature you select.

The heads on your Bug are aluminum and you need to be careful.

Just a suggestion.

Luc

Yep, appreciate it, thanks, don't want to melt it.

Greg

[gotoluc]

Hi poii,

First I'm going to hang a small day tank near the engine compartment and gravity feed some 35% distilled water and isopropanol (anhydrous) to the carburetor (this is just very strong rubbing alcohol). I'll fiddle there for a while then post.

I know that the plasma ignites low temp, poorly vaporized fuel-air gasoline. Gas is so high energy density I think leaning this stuff accomplishes little because I don't have a way to know what the mixture will be. I could just swap jets but that would be relative. Alcohols (in various forms from various sources) are renewable resources.

...don't know anything about GEET, but I like it.

Peace,

Greg

Hi Greg, if you start testing with alcohol I would recommend you pickup one of those digital BBQ roasting temperature gauge. They have a remote temperature probe with a braided stainless wire lead shield which is about 24" long. Wedge the probe between the cooling fins of the engine head so you can monitor the temperature as you are testing as things could get too hot. I pick one up for my half GEET engine test to monitor exhaust temperature and the nice thing about these is they have an alarm you can set to go off at a temperature you select.

The heads on your Bug are aluminum and you need to be careful.

Just a suggestion.

Luc

[gmeast]

mixture

Thanks folks but goldenequity's Feuerman Patent would seem to be the more elegant "solution", and opens other possibilities for blended fuels. Water, diesel,
biodiesel, veggie oil, naptha, waste crankcase oil, bunker oil, methenol.... Somewhere I read of a guy in Las Vegas running buses on water/naptha/surfactant emulsion (can't find it now).

Greg has demonstrated that plasma expands the ignition envelope, maybe by a considerable amount so Feuerman's 22.5% water may not be our limit. We may have the GEET in the cylinder.

One issue with emulsion could be corrosion. I would want that resolved before using it in a stock FI engine. Injectors are stainless but I don't know about the rest of the system.

Greg are you going to try a leaner mixture?

Hi poii,

First I'm going to hang a small day tank near the engine compartment and gravity feed some 35% distilled water and isopropanol (anhydrous) to the carburetor (this is just very strong rubbing alcohol). I'll fiddle there for a while then post.

I know that the plasma ignites low temp, poorly vaporized fuel-air gasoline. Gas is so high energy density I think leaning this stuff accomplishes little because I don't have a way to know what the mixture will be. I could just swap jets but that would be relative. Alcohols (in various forms from various sources) are renewable resources.

...don't know anything about GEET, but I like it.

Peace,

Greg

[poii]

WI

Thanks folks but goldenequity's Feuerman Patent would seem to be the more elegant "solution", and opens other possibilities for blended fuels. Water, diesel,
biodiesel, veggie oil, naptha, waste crankcase oil, bunker oil, methenol.... Somewhere I read of a guy in Las Vegas running buses on water/naptha/surfactant emulsion (can't find it now).

Greg has demonstrated that plasma expands the ignition envelope, maybe by a considerable amount so Feuerman's 22.5% water may not be our limit. We may have the GEET in the cylinder.

One issue with emulsion could be corrosion. I would want that resolved before using it in a stock FI engine. Injectors are stainless but I don't know about the rest of the system.

Greg are you going to try a leaner mixture?

[gmeast]

spinoff

Hi all,

Wanted to share an observed spinoff of having the Plasma CDI. I have mentioned this earlier but now I'm giving it some significant consideration. If nothing else, there is a real emissions and economy advantage I've already noticed. On start up, I don't need to use the choke at all. I flip the Plasma "On" and it starts right up ... instantly ... not even one turn of the engine!

No excess fuel is used nor is there the associated polluting, rich, gagging fuel mixture.

The I switch back to CDI-only once warmed up. I realize that this is minor compared to our ultimate goal but it is an immediate benefit ... a multi-mode/phase spark ... that's a new one! Also, additional flash Caps can be switched in or out as needed for temporary punch. The CDI alone puts the standard ignition configuration to shame.

Thanks again to everyone. Peace,

Greg

[gmeast]

WE fuel patent

Hi Greg... excellent work!
I post the below because you mentioned you were thinking of trying a water/gas emulsion. This was an impressive patent I discovered/studied.
He mixed 2 emulsifiers with gas and water, simply swirled it around in a beaker and it thoroughly blended the gas and water in a clear emulsion.
That's impressive.
..................................................

Thanks goldenequity. This step is near-term. Will study what you posted and thanks for the links.

Peace,

Greg

[gmeast]

WI

Greg

!!Awesome work on the bug!!

I put water injection (WI) on a Dodge 3.9 v6. It has an air compressor controlled by a pressure sw pressureising a 2 gal garden sprayer bottle fed to a fuel injector fired by a pnp darlington tapped into the #6 cyl fuel injector signal.

The compressor is a $12 Motortrend 12v 250 psi w/gauge.

The pressure sw is a Square D water well pressure sw (home depot $10) with contacts removed and fitted with a MO door nc microswitch for 3psi pressure range (off the shelf range is 20 psi). The small adjustment spring was removed and the microswitch is mounted on its post.

The fuel injector is from a Buick Le Saber and has 4 holes in the tip (junk yard $5). Any big engine FI would likely work but the 4 holes give better atomization.

The garden sprayer (Gilmore brand) had a garden hose connector so I tested it to 50psi (the Dodge runs at 30psi). I removed the hand pump and put a 1 1/2" pvc solvent pipe plug w/o-ring under the screw cap.

With WI and an EFIE mpg is +20%

I suspect with the single injection/2rev different cyl's may get different amounts of water at higher load, so more smaller pulses may be better.

For non FI engines a pwm controller (NTE1720, LM3524D, NTE1753) with a MAP sensor in the vacuum line and maybe a tach signal from ign coil might work to drive the WI.

We could start another thread if anyone wants more on this.


Many Thanks to All!

Hi poii,

You sir are a regular McGiver. I would love to watch you work! Very impressive and I will study your post and see if I can do something like that for the Bug. I have the discharge trigger signal from the distributor Hall sensor to work with. It swings 0 - 12VDC. Any advice would be helpful and appreciated.

Peace,

Greg

[gmeast]

McGiver

Awesome creativity!!! I'd call that thinking outside the box.

I too, would be interested if you started a thread on this.

Warren
..

When a man's knowledge is not in order; the more of it he has, and the greater will be his confusion." Herbert Spencer

@ all,

I totally agree! He sounds like a regular McGiver. Anyone have some chewing gum? FANTASTIC! ! I didn't follow all of it, but I'm saving it to file!

Greg

[mrbreau]

Greg

!!Awesome work on the bug!!

I put water injection (WI) on a Dodge 3.9 v6. It has an air compressor controlled by a pressure sw pressureising a 2 gal garden sprayer bottle fed to a fuel injector fired by a pnp darlington tapped into the #6 cyl fuel injector signal.

The compressor is a $12 Motortrend 12v 250 psi w/gauge.

The pressure sw is a Square D water well pressure sw (home depot $10) with contacts removed and fitted with a MO door nc microswitch for 3psi pressure range (off the shelf range is 20 psi). The small adjustment spring was removed and the microswitch is mounted on its post.

The fuel injector is from a Buick Le Saber and has 4 holes in the tip (junk yard $5). Any big engine FI would likely work but the 4 holes give better atomization.

The garden sprayer (Gilmore brand) had a garden hose connector so I tested it to 50psi (the Dodge runs at 30psi). I removed the hand pump and put a 1 1/2" pvc solvent pipe plug w/o-ring under the screw cap.

With WI and an EFIE mpg is +20%

I suspect with the single injection/2rev different cyl's may get different amounts of water at higher load, so more smaller pulses may be better.

For non FI engines a pwm controller (NTE1720, LM3524D, NTE1753) with a MAP sensor in the vacuum line and maybe a tach signal from ign coil might work to drive the WI.

We could start another thread if anyone wants more on this.


Many Thanks to All!

Awesome creativity!!! I'd call that thinking outside the box.

I too, would be interested if you started a thread on this.

Warren
..

When a man's knowledge is not in order; the more of it he has, and the greater will be his confusion." Herbert Spencer

[goldenequity]

Gas Water Emulsion

Hi Greg... excellent work!
I post the below because you mentioned you were thinking of trying a water/gas emulsion. This was an impressive patent I discovered/studied.
He mixed 2 emulsifiers with gas and water, simply swirled it around in a beaker and it thoroughly blended the gas and water in a clear emulsion.
That's impressive.



A Review of the Arnold Feuerman Patent

Here is a described recipe and formula for creating an inverted emulsion (water-in-oil).
It surprisingly produces a clear (rather than a milky) emulsion of gasoline and water and has worked successfully for the inventor on mixes up to 22% water.

Besides being a clear emulsion, benefits are the simplicity and ease of mixing as the compatibility of the 2 surfactant types used, provide the normally incompatible liquids, complete disbursement and total miscibility, and in addition, only fractional amounts of the 2 nonionic surfactants are required.

This single document attempts to provide the reader all the information necessary to identify and acquire the necessary chemistry to create and test the emulsion recipe and to perform tests to develop the emulsion for their own use in creating and combusting the emulsion fuels in their own automobiles for testing. It should be tested with diesel and home heating oil and should be amenable to most if not all hydrocarbon fuels.

The 1975 United States Patent 4158551 claims the 22% water-in-gasoline fuel combusted properly with no modifications (at that time) to the test engine; and further demonstrated an increase of 25% in fuel economy.

Needed, are 2 chemicals commonly used by manufacturers and found among the ingredients listed in many common household and industry products.
They are (both) nonionic surfactants; unregulated and obtainable; and are both required for this rather flexible formula for emulsifying water and gasoline.

1. Cocamide DEA
**used in tests was trade name CALAMIDE C made by Pilot Chemical Company and VARAMIDE MA-1
made by Ashland Oil.
Generic Cocamide DEA is easy to obtain and available in 1gallon/5 gallon/55 gallon amounts.
A quick search found an available suppliers at the following links:
Cocamide DEA by The Chemistry Store.com Inc
eBay Store - Chemistry Connection: Sodium Lauryl Sulfate: Decyl Glucoside, Plantapon
**many "sample" sizes of various surfactant/emulsifiers here
Below Attached is a list of the various Trade Names of the various Cocamide DEA formulas on the market.

2. An EthOxylated NonylPhenol
There are many trade names and formula derivatives of this broad based nonionic surfactant;
all or many may work as well as another.
The 3 different formulas used were of the Ethoxylated alkylphenol derivative variety and all worked.
All formulas had different Molar concentrations of Ethylene Oxide to NonyPhenol; and all variations worked.

It should be noted only Ethoxylated alkylphenol formulas were used in the patent testing and are listed as:
**VARONIC N30-7 and VARONIC N-6 made by Ashland Oil and IGEPAL CO210 made by GAF Corporation.
Below Attached is a list of the various Trade Names of the various EthOxylated NonylPhenol formulas on the market.

It is pointed out by this writer, that all or many of these common nonionic surfactants may work (especially of the Ethoxylated alkylphenol varieties) and that those used by the inventors were merely readily available at the time.

The following various methods demonstrate the flexibility in creating the emulsion:

1 ml. of IGEPAL CO530 and 1 ml. of CALAMIDE C were poured into 78 ml. of gasoline and then 20 ml. of tap water was added. A slight shaking of the container formed a clear emulsion.
The gasoline-water emulsion of the present invention can be readily formed by adding the surfactants to the gasoline and then introducing tap water. No prior stirring between the gasoline and surfactants is required,


1.5 ml. of IGEPAL CO210 was added to 82 ml. of gasoline in a beaker. 1.5 ml. of CALAMIDE C was added and 15 ml. of water. A gentle shaking of the beaker produced a clear emulsion of the gasoline in the water.

3.5 ml. of VARONIC N30-7 and 3.5 ml. of VARAMIDE MA-1 were mixed with 70.5 ml. of gasoline and 22.5 ml. of water.

2 ml. of VARONIC N-6 was poured into a beaker containing 88 ml. of gasoline. 10 ml. of tap water were added and emulsified into the gasoline by gently shaking the beaker.

There's only 2 ingredients needed from the patent:
Cocamide DEA (in many shampoos)
and
an EthylOxylated AlkaPhenol (I don't think it matters which one.... there are lots... it's an OH Alcohol)

Here is a comprehensive list of Ethyloxylated NonyPhenol and Cocamide DEA surfactants
of various trade names and molar concentrations that are in the market place and manufactured
by various chemical companies like Pilot Chemical, Ashland and many, many others...... check for samples!

Generic Cocamide DEA is easily obtained here.... they have many common soap/shampoo surfactants in sample sizes
eBay Store - Chemistry Connection: Sodium Lauryl Sulfate: Decyl Glucoside, Plantapon

Obtaining EthylOxylates will most likely have to be from Chemical Companies but there's lots.

List of the producers/trade names of the 2 surfactants used:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5450.0;attach=26471