Bedini Ferris Wheel Regauging Motor

[Lidmotor]

Iron Pyrite / Marine Zinc / Ocean salt water --Battery

@All
I tried the Iron Pyrite with a used zinc off my boat and some pure sea water that I got at Catalina Island last summer. It worked. This battery powered my little mono pole motor.

Thanks John for suggesting a larger coil for the motor. I wound a much larger one today and the little motor ran much better.

Here is a video of the new zinc/sea water battery arrangement:

YouTube - Iron Pyrite + Zinc + Sea water-- Battery.ASF

Lidmotor

[John_Bedini]

Bedini GT3

RS,
See terminal 3 of the regulator, Take the regulator out and put a 2.2K resistor between terminal 3 and terminal 2 now at terminal 2 put a 15 volt Zener between terminal 2 and opposite side of the FET where Q2 is on that bus line, you can not have it at the negative of the battery.
John B

Thanks JB,

Here is a new Sch with the changes and Zener per your edit.

The TL783 is 1.25V to 120V at 700ma, should provide enough current to pull up most Mosfet gates at 15V.

Now I need to go dig one out of my parts cabinet, and rig it up to test......

RS

[FRC]

Thanks John B You have inspired me in many fields, I started with a ssg then moved on to building audio and guitar amps. And guess who I find once again. I truly believe if you guys want to get a better understanding how these components work build some small audio amps. Sorry to be off topic. I have the motor charging a 12 14Ah battery right now, It Is Charging Slowly but steady, its only been on for 30 min. so Ill keep you posted.


Brian

Sorry for staying off topic. I have 2 vintage Fender Bassman's, one has to be rebuilt after almost getting destroyed. Also three tonewheel Hammonds, a Les
Paul and a couple of Leslies. That was something I was always wondering about. Did John B. ever build guitar/musical instrument amps?

George

[Rl2003]

Thanks JB,

Here is a new Sch with the changes and Zener per your edit.

The TL783 is 1.25V to 120V at 700ma, should provide enough current to pull up most Mosfet gates at 15V.

Now I need to go dig one out of my parts cabinet, and rig it up to test......

RS

Nice scematic RC.
I think I may have these parts to try that.

Mark

[RS_]

Thanks JB,

Here is a new Sch with the changes and Zener per your edit.

The TL783 is 1.25V to 120V at 700ma, should provide enough current to pull up most Mosfet gates at 15V.

Now I need to go dig one out of my parts cabinet, and rig it up to test......

RS

[genessc]

Hi John K, John B,

Thanks for both of your posts.

Everything that is electrically connected or that is mutually inductive has some impact on how the circuit works. Just as you noted with the 130Ah batteries versus the 7Ah gel cells. Its the exact same with ANY load you decide to put on the output of the SG. You see the impedance shift as a functional RPM shift on the rotor of the SG based on the load you choose to drive with it.

I have driven a vacuum motor that spins at 22k rpm off the output of the SG and noted the SG rotor rpm at about 2700rpm. I've then driven a pair of 100watt 230volt lamps off the output and the RPM on the SG is 3100rpm. Lastly I've been driving a dish washing machine heater element off the output of the SG and this keeps the RPM of the SG at about 1800rpm-1900rpm.

Another thing, the format of the energy output changes based on the loads impedance (aka resistance at discharge pulse frequency) For the heating element the format is about 41volts at 2.5amps output... For the vacuum motor it was more like 1amp at 95volts DC.

Every aspect of the circuit contributes to every other aspect of the circuit. Change 1 thing and the whole dynamic shifts.

John K, you noted "John B is absolutley right, the common lead-acid battery is a non-linear device so some of the rules don't apply. I have to agree with him, it's the signal that we are sending to the battery to get the ions to move that is important, not the amount of "current" we belt it with. This signal tells the battery to charge."

Rules Always apply, you just have to figure out what they are. The rules for an inductive load don't apply to a resistive load don't apply to a non-linear load, but there are rules that can be known for each.

I'm not sure that its not about the amount of current we "belt" the battery with. I've tested enough "loads" to know that there has to be some amount of current relevant to the size of the battery or load being "belted". It seems like there must be some way of determining the uF size needed to effectively "vibrate" the battery into self charging itself based on the Ah size of the cells being charged. There is a wide range of capacitance sizes that JB has noted in the FEG book that can be used to charge up caps, and thus be discharged into battery loads at low frequency between 3-20hz. Some circuits use 3uF and some use 16,000uF... Obviously the Joule potential between these two capacities and the rate at which they charge are very much in skew in relation to each other. The 3uF cap will charge to high voltage fast and if we discharge it into a battery as load at only double the batteries voltage you will have a pretty high frequency of pulses going into the battery. The 16000uF cap will charge to a lower peak voltage and it will take more time to do so (hence the needing to put drag on the ferris wheel I think) and it also needs a longer Time constant to discharge as well and so the frequency is much lower than the 3uF cap.

What qualifies one capacity over another for a particular load? How should this be sized?

Is there a Joule figure needed, based on the amp hour rating and composition of the battery being charged as load, that can be determined to find the right capacity for the collector cap to be applied to the load at some frequency?

As regards the interesting change to the iron pyrite and magnesium ribbon... hmmm Thats pretty cool. I suppose that is a result of it having driven the little motor that was built which is what facilitated the spike interaction between the "plates" of the cell eh? Could one just as easily put an inductor in series and use a relay (probably with external power supply to control the pulsing of the relay) to emulate the same effect since the motors are just using a single wire in the coil? I suppose its time to find me some iron pyrite and magnesium ribbon. Did anything happen to the calcium chloride pellet? Was it consumed in the transition/transmutation?

Good stuff. I'm enjoying the conversation. Take care guys,
Gene

Hi All,

Interesting series of posts, thanks all.

I just wanted to point out that regardless of the maths and formulae, at the end of the day it's how much you can get out of the battery powering a load that counts.

John B is absolutley right, the common lead-acid battery is a non-linear device so some of the rules don't apply. I have to agree with him, it's the signal that we are sending to the battery to get the ions to move that is important, not the amount of "current" we belt it with. This signal tells the battery to charge. As John B has said in the past, the battery has all the electrons it needs, we don't need to give it any more.

He's also dead right about the type and condition of the battery. For example, I had my S1GT running on large GOOD 130Ah flooded deep cycle batteries last week. I had three in series at 36V. I could run the S1GT at 36V input, all 4 windings on the main coil connected and a 2 x 6,800uF 50V caps in parallel for the store and dump, using the SCR/zener/LEDs switching to dump it. The SCR would NEVER latch on.

Last night I hooked up 3 12V 7Ah gel-cells in series and could only run exactly the same circuit with 12V primary, only 1 winding on the main coil and 6,800uF 50V cap, otherwise the SCR would latch on. The gel-cells are not new and have a few years of abuse with various different builds. They are probably half dried out. I only use them as lab rats to see if the circuit works.

I took a video of this on my phone but it was too big and I can't upload it so I will have to do it again tonight.

The lesson I learned was that the batteries are very much part of the circuit. To get good results, you need good batteries and you need to work them.

I don't want to sound like a Mr. Knowitall because I'm defintely not but don't get too hung up on the math. There are too many variables that will drive you crazy if you try and work it out.
The only real test you can do is charge the battery up to at least 14.5V and then load test it to see how much energy you can get out of powering a real load. This is believe is one of the most fundamental things people miss when doing this research.


John K.

[John_Bedini]

Bedini GT3

Ron,
Send an E-Mail to me with an address, I will send it to you. I will even talk to you by phone if you want.
John B

Hi John,

If you like I can analyze the transmuted materials you mentioned and give you a detailed report of the elements present. We have several Auger type analyzers here in our lab. Peter Lindemann can vouch for me if you're interested. Thanks for the the incredible mountain of information you've shared with us through the years.

Best Regards, Ron chase

[John_Bedini]

Bedini GT3

John K ,
That is good running move the read to retard the timing make it run slow, no more then 20 RPM's. If you retard the timing the charging will increase that is what you want. Can you catch the wave form on a scope. Your correct it is self regulating, current is expected to go down as the battery reaches the end of the charging curve. See if you can take 25 % off the top of those batteries three 2 amp 12 volt lights in series if possible.
John B

[John_Bedini]

Bedini GT3

RS,
I'm not ticked off at you.
You have this right. it's just a matter of testing the circuit and showing the pulses to the battery. Good work. Also put a 220 ohm resistor in series with the gate. Sorry about adding things but I have my moments.
Ok 2.2 K resistor with a zener will work better. You could add a resistor to pin 2 to ground too.


RS ,
I see the problem you must move the regulator off the output battery, then move it to the cap minus. or just use a zener with a resistor to limit the gate. I should have seen that , but I'm doing fifty things here right now at once.
John B
John B

Hi JB,

First, Thank you for every word you have ever told me....
I have done my best to build everything, within my means, and understanding........ Some of it worked real good, and some of it so, so.......

2nd, Sorry if I've ticked ya off by posting the wrong wire length info,
or anything else in the past that that has happened, or not happened as planed.....

3rd, I have been trying to understand what you mean by using a regulator on the cap pulser circuit that you told Brent about....

This is what I've come up with..... but don't think that it is correct....

Or should the Gnd of the regulator go to the neg of the capture cap and the Vin pin go to the neg of the battery.....?

The LM7815 can only handle 35V input, so it will not work there as shown, but another 3V - 120V variable regulator will work there.

please confirm if this is what you meant, or not.......

Thanks for everything........

RS

[Ron Chase]

Transmuted Materials

Sorry off subject of Joules for a moment....

John K,
Some very Interesting things have happened to the rock battery, Transmutation has taken place with the magnesium, the magnesium will no longer burn, as it is not magnesium it looks like it.

The funny thing I think it's now silver as it seem to reacts the same way. What ever was in the Pyrite has now changed the magnesium, it's a soft material like gold or silver not lead. The rock is no longer Pyrite either, the Pyrite has a silver luster to it and no longer works as Iron pyrite.

Tom Bearden has said this before and I have done the experiments on minerals to prove that. It's that little spike that science refuses to look at. I have seen this happen in batteries when they had clear cases you could see the plates change and watch the plating take place. Hell your whole nervous system works on that little spike before the energy in EM appears.This is a real head scratchier. And Iron Pyrite is a mysterious rock. More experiments to find out what it is.
John B

Hi John,

If you like I can analyze the transmuted materials you mentioned and give you a detailed report of the elements present. We have several Auger type analyzers here in our lab. Peter Lindemann can vouch for me if you're interested. Thanks for the the incredible mountain of information you've shared with us through the years.

Best Regards, Ron chase

[minoly]

Hi All,

I posted a video on my S1GT setup. I wanted to show in this video where I think the timing should be and the cap dump working.

It is also using a crude reed switch setup to fire the circuit (waiting on ATS137 halls to arrive), where the rotor magnet closes the reed. It's actually firing at 23 degrees if you look at it, as the coil fires at about 0.5 degrees past the core piece - or 23 degrees from the reed switch.

The rotor is cruising at a nice 16RPM. In the time it took to upload the video (about 1.5 hours), the primary has dropped from 12.64v resting to 12.37v running and the charging batteries have gone from 38.55v resting to 40.3v running and jumping up to 42.3v when the cap dumps.

YouTube - Bedini S1GT Reed Switch Timing

Have a great weekend!


John K.

Hi John K.
there's a lot of good info on your vid, Thanks for sharing that
We found that keeping the right sized biasing magnet on the opposite end of the reed also helps keep the reed from welding, I think you'll find that will work nicely on your build.

On some of our teeny tiny window bug motors, we used tiny broken/crushed pieces from a ceramic magnet. on our big reed that we use to short out large genny coils to squeeze out 400+volt spikes, we use a good sized donut neo. you can see that in our MP2 folder. we also show it in our wrongly named "3 Pole Monopole Back-popping" vid - it was actually side popping.

P'n'S

[RS_]

Cap pulser

Hi JB,

First, Thank you for every word you have ever told me....
I have done my best to build everything, within my means, and understanding........ Some of it worked real good, and some of it so, so.......

2nd, Sorry if I've ticked ya off by posting the wrong wire length info,
or anything else in the past that that has happened, or not happened as planed.....

3rd, I have been trying to understand what you mean by using a regulator on the cap pulser circuit that you told Brent about....

This is what I've come up with..... but don't think that it is correct....

Or should the Gnd of the regulator go to the neg of the capture cap and the Vin pin go to the neg of the battery.....?

The LM7815 can only handle 35V input, so it will not work there as shown, but another 3V - 120V variable regulator will work there.

please confirm if this is what you meant, or not.......

Thanks for everything........

RS

[nvisser]

Nice one John K.
It's a pity the scr latches as it would be interesting to see how your pulse frequency performed with 36V at the input!!
It is quiet impressive charging you get on a 36V bank with only 12v at the input. I believe you dump at 6.7V above battery voltage.

[Rl2003]

Thanks for the video John, Nice..
I like the big wheel. I am thinking of adding some weight to my wheel
to slow it down as well. I have about a 10 mm gap now between the magnet
and cores. So I would have to change the stand some to get more distance
between them.
I am playing with some variations of the circuit,FET, to see if I can get it to work as well. But work always gets in the way of play time...
More detail when I can.
Mark P.

Hi All,

I posted a video on my S1GT setup. I wanted to show in this video where I think the timing should be and the cap dump working.

It is also using a crude reed switch setup to fire the circuit (waiting on ATS137 halls to arrive), where the rotor magnet closes the reed. It's actually firing at 23 degrees if you look at it, as the coil fires at about 0.5 degrees past the core piece - or 23 degrees from the reed switch.

The rotor is cruising at a nice 16RPM. In the time it took to upload the video (about 1.5 hours), the primary has dropped from 12.64v resting to 12.37v running and the charging batteries have gone from 38.55v resting to 40.3v running and jumping up to 42.3v when the cap dumps.

YouTube - Bedini S1GT Reed Switch Timing

Have a great weekend!


John K.

[redrichie]

John B,
Yes sir I have. But until recently I have not had a scope to "see" if I had things correct. I had a build a little over a year ago that was really kicking some potential out, but I was a lot less experienced and versed as I am now, and I wasn't sure if I was doing anything. Since the ferris wheel thread I have been relearning with the SG while I start putting together the SG3.
I rebuilt a 3 trans circuit last night, using metal cased 3055's, traditional multistrand monopole SG circuit. bike wheel with 16 block magnets. Probably not grade 8, seeing as how they dont say a grade. I will order some mjl bipolar circuitry as soon as I get the big wheel together. I had a question a while back for you, but you were taking care of personal business and I didnt want to bring it back up... I am building a 6 ft wheel. Prob not as nice as Brent/aggie but should be good. I have worked with wood my whole life.
I, unfortunately, will not be able to afford as much wire as Those guys however. So if my center coil were to be say 1/3 to 1/2 that size that size which magnets would be ideal? A 3x2 a 4x1? If its still 6x4 fine, just was unsure. It kind of fell through the cracks for me to, as I have been experimenting with Tesla impulse technology in conjunction with the multistrand SG. I only have a single coil but the results surprised me. Is there a limit to the number of impulse coils I can add per transistor? If no, and seeing how this is alot of extra "free" energy in the system then how come I couldnt power virtually everything with the impusle tech? a selfrunner, lights, a car motor.....? Thanks John

Brent,
This is what I'm saying , I would to prefer to use the Fet as it is not as much trouble as the SCR. I would not worry about putting real sulphated batteries on the output of the machine with the Fet. This is not real hard to make.
I'm trying to make this as simple as possible here and not winding everybody up with all this math that does not apply to non-linear systems. Not that I do not use the math, I do but not here at this moment.

I said I was using a Fet in the control box it works just fine, I'm saying how I want to change it to trigger with a SIDAC instead of capacitor timing like Mathew Jones did it.

Redrichie, have you built one of these machines because I don't know how many have ever built an SG's here, except for RS, John K Chuck H, this is not a big deal to do as all the circuits have been working for a long time.
People change things and get mixed results.

I never change anything until I get it working like Lasersabers battery, which is still working with just water.That device has given many hours of energy for the price of water, but it could be rain. It takes time to get these thing working. Chuck H helped me at work to get that big GT3 running it's not easy to adjust but once it's right you can walk away from it and let it charge.

Chuck H at work has built simple ones and they work. What I'm trying to point out here is the energy is everywhere you just need the right pump for the job. The little experiments I'm doing on Youtube should show that.
Your machine will work with those big coils. No one has coils that big on SG machines except Me at this point, Your next to do it. I have faith it will work.
John B