Bedini Solid State Oscillators

[iret]

Hi Mart,

Input voltage? and amps?

Current setup is at 24V, two 12V 7.1Ah battery series together.

If you look at the manual for the chargers they sell you will get an idea of the range of voltage it should intake and output.

Which chargers manual are you referring to ?

It does take several load / discharges, but I am not aware of where they say to totally discharge the battery in the book.

I thought that if there is a definate charge retention it should shows up on a really dead battery(Complete discharge, Charge it up and discharge again). Maybe I just have not zap the battery enough, it's brand new. But did notice that if I charged it for like 5 minutes with Bedini Osc, I can roughly run that bulb for like 7 minutes.

[Shamus]

The elephant in the room...

OK, since Jetijs posted #2 in then IROL thread (and Peter Lindemann said was already public knowledge), and #1 is publicly viewable by anyone who has access to the internet on the front of a certain well known Yahoo group, it doesn't take a whole lot to figure out how to combine the two. I know this will probably cause consternation to certain people, but hey, the information is already out there (and put out by those people)! Can we now stop pretending that it isn't?

I know #1 is patented but I dont know if #2 is (my guess: probably). In which case, again, this is public knowledge. If this is too controversial then I'll gladly remove this post; otherwise, nothing to see here.

[theremart]

RE: charge

Hi All,
I did a setup similar to the FEG schematic. Yes, I finally got a copy of the book. Tried to charge a Fujiya 12V 60Ah lead acid battery which was completely discharge on purpose. Shorted the battery with a 12V 5W light bulb, the filament does not even glows. I then proceed to charge it up with Bedini Osc for like 1 minute and shorted the battery with the same light bulb again and it lighted up to full brigthness. BUT, the charge does NOT hold for long. According to the FEG book, it suppose to hold the charge. What's wrong ?

Input voltage? and amps?


I ran into the same thing, only with my 1000 amp hour Semi battery I charged it for 3 days when i went to pull off 5 amps it did not hold it for very long... was charged up to 14V.

I am thinking you have to build it bigger and stronger...

If you look at the manual for the chargers they sell you will get an idea of the range of voltage it should intake and output.

It does take several load / discharges, but I am not aware of where they say to totally discharge the battery in the book.

Thanks for sharing !

[iret]

Hi All,
I did a setup similar to the FEG schematic. Yes, I finally got a copy of the book. Tried to charge a Fujiya 12V 60Ah lead acid battery which was completely discharge on purpose. Shorted the battery with a 12V 5W light bulb, the filament does not even glows. I then proceed to charge it up with Bedini Osc for like 1 minute and shorted the battery with the same light bulb again and it lighted up to full brigthness. BUT, the charge does NOT hold for long. According to the FEG book, it suppose to hold the charge. What's wrong ?

[ldissing]

I am happy !

I am seeing changes in my batteries of what took months on the SSG now done in hours...

I just want to make sure that people know that it wasn't because of the SCR/transistor swap that your batteries are charging better. It was because of your wires and 555 circuit mods, I think. Your post is after my post, so people might get the wrong impression.


L

[ldissing]

Thanks, I might give this a go. Aarons solidstate had an NPN instead of a SCR

Thanks...I think you are right. My observation was from the FEG book schematics.


That is probably why the large cap worked for Aaron so well. He could actually charge the cap and discharge it correctly with the NPN instead of the SCR. I just wanted people reading the FEG book to know that large caps cause the SCR to always be ON if the SCR is after the transistor (and, of course, it matters what size the battery is too).. Switching the SCR and transistor makes it work better for bigger caps.

L

[theremart]

RE: real charge..

In my post I said I could only get a static charge. I This is the scenario...I buy a 5 Ah motorcycle battery and I don't charge it with anything but the SSG (because I was told that it could charge it just fine with the SSG from the guys @ yahoo monopole3 group). I can get it to 12.9 V in as little as 5 minutes after a bunch of charge cycles. But, I can only get about 1:45 minutes of actual power out of the battery at C20 rate. Sounds like a static charge to me. The resting voltage after a couple of minutes was 12.76, which I figure for a wet lead acid battery is close to 100% full.
L

Yes I fully agree with you there is a big difference between charging voltage, and the battery at rest, and the battery under load.

The test that I like to do after I charge a battery is to put a 1 amp load ( or one that matches the c20 rate of the battery ) and then test the battery voltage. This seems to be a much more accurate way of measuring. Better yet do a timed test of how long it will hold up to said voltage under load. This will give you the real energy that is in the battery, and will clear away any fluff charge.

I am finding that a moderate amount of amps ( 1 amp ) with the SS is giving me SOLID charging. I am blown away by the difference of how the batteries are holding up under load. I should have load testing soon.

I found the source of my heat problem. When I was putting the unit back into case and securing the wires there was a short circuit at the 555 that was giving me problems, this has been corrected and hurray it is working..

I am charging my Semi battery now and after 3 hours it is up from 12.20 to 12.60 with 24V .8 amp input. Normally it takes about 1 day to do that amount of charging before...

[ldissing]

In my post I said I could only get a static charge. I believe that the reason for the static charge actually has nothing to do with the SCR, small caps, large caps or other set ups. It was just the time it takes and the voltage it takes for it to work properly.

This post is a little awkward, because it contains multiple things, so I hope you can follow me. I'm not the best at instructions or conveying my ideas.

This is the scenario...I buy a 5 Ah motorcycle battery and I don't charge it with anything but the SSG (because I was told that it could charge it just fine with the SSG from the guys @ yahoo monopole3 group). I can get it to 12.9 V in as little as 5 minutes after a bunch of charge cycles. But, I can only get about 1:45 minutes of actual power out of the battery at C20 rate. Sounds like a static charge to me. The resting voltage after a couple of minutes was 12.76, which I figure for a wet lead acid battery is close to 100% full.

So, I charge it again to 12.9 and let it sit over night. The voltage goes down to 12.5 volts, basically where it was when I started. There is no real charge there, it is static, bogus.

So, I'm really thinking that this is all just a bunch or hocus pocus and lies. So I disconnect the cap charging and do the SSG basic hook up again, but this time I say...let's charge it above 12.9, the battery isn't charging anyway, so the battery is useless and I surely will not actually damage it. I let it charge to 13.27 V. And I just let it rest. It comes down to 12.63. Ah, some real charge this time. I discharge at the C20 and I get 3 minutes of C20 power. So, I put it on to charge again, and let it go to 13.7. I let it rest, it comes down to 12.8 volts and holds. I haven't completed doing this a bunch of times, but I think the moral of the story, is if it shows an increase in voltage and the battery is in good condition, then it isn't necessarily a static charge...it just hasn't been on the charger long enough.

I know this thread is about solid state chargers. Bedini says that high voltage is the key, and the solid state will do that, I agree. I believe he also says that it has to have a little current at the right time. He doesn't say when that current is needed...I don't know why.

So, with the original schematic and the SCR last, I have a thought or two. With high uF caps, if the SCR never shuts off, then that means there is some current going through there all the time, and some of those high voltage spikes are going through at the same time as well. Perhaps this is why higher uF caps charge somewhat better, because the high voltage is married with current. Maybe the SCR isn't actually supposed to shut off completely all the time. Maybe it is a function of what current the battery can handle. The SCR behaves differently with different batteries on the back end. Perhaps I just didn't give it enough time and a high enough voltage for it to charge this way. I was trying to NOT damage the battery by taking it above 12.9 volts, but this will only generate a static charge, so I need to let it go to 13.7 at least for a while. Now that it has had a "real" charge, perhaps it will not need as high a voltage to get it to rest at 12.8....testing and learning continues.

That 555 timer circuit is interesting, because when it goes high, the SCR turns on and supposedly shuts off when the current is gone. (Bearden says it is negative current or negative energy). In my oscope, it does not always shut completely off while the 555 is high (OR LOW), depending on the charging battery on the back side. Maybe this is intentional and they just haven't told us all this. Maybe I'm an idiot too, that is always possible.

L

[ren]

good work Mart


@ Idissing, you were right The SCR doesnt fully close with high uF caps. I added a MJL21194, triggered by the SCR. I can hear the caps dumping now, where as before the clicking was only present on small uF caps.

Love your work.

[theremart]

RE: these batteries...

I have had these batteries swapping in the battery swapper for about 4 weeks. Each running about 6 hours at a time charging the others 24 hours a day. I have charged them up to 15V before, but never ventured this far to 16V.

I had charged them before with this SS, however the 12V would not get them up to the full charge, and it took days to do a half way job.

I think the semi battery is next on my hit list.

[Sephiroth]

well done mart

Is that the first time those batteries have been charged via solid state or the ssg?

[theremart]

24V SS Bedini Battlestation operational!!!!

I am happy !

I am seeing changes in my batteries of what took months on the SSG now done in hours...

My 12 amp hour batteries are charging up to 16V in 4 - 9 Hours from 12.5V. After the first charge one of my first ones is holding under load at 13.20V ( only .25 Amp load ) but I have not seen these do that before. )

I am getting 80V pulses with the battery connected. Heat is gone from my 555, and opto. Why, I don't know I have not changed anything, I just don't want to touch it now !!

[ren]

Thanks, I might give this a go. Aarons solidstate had an NPN instead of a SCR

[ldissing]

In my experience (I've been doing this stuff for awhile), it is difficult to charge a really large capacitor with the SCR after the transistor. If there is too much current (and the battery is too small to accept it), then the SCR will never shut off. I've tried increasing the voltage at the source to make it charge the cap faster, but then the spikes have enough current that the SCR will not shut off, so it doesn't work as expected.

However, if you place the SCR first, then the SCR cathode to the transistor base, it will work the same way, but the SCR will shut off correctly, because it is being driven by the H11D1 shown in the schematic on page 1 of this thread. Therefore, you can charge the cap either slowly with a 12V setup (or faster with a faster oscillation), or you can increase the voltage on the front end to 24V or so, and charge it faster as well. This allows for a decrease in the time to charge/discharge the big cap.

Anyway, it works better for me, as I've only been able to achieve static charges even with big caps when the SCR is after the transistor. It seems to work better with the transistor after the SCR for me.

Because the SCR is a high voltage device, this method should not be utilized for charging caps to voltages above the rating of the transistor (or you may fry the transistor). It will work for the big caps at 2-3 volts above the charging (secondary) battery.


L

[theremart]

RE: 24 mod

hmmm. Mart I have had no trouble running a solidstate on 24v. I had to replace the mj3055 transistor to a MLJ21194 as it was over heating, but never had any problems with the h11d1.

Something that may or may not help is this. Use a really thin wire on the output of the h11d1. The thinner it is the less current it will flow. Use really thick wire from the negative terminal to the anode of the SCR, and from the cathode to the cap. the h1's NPN is only rated for 500ma I think, it shouldnt be getting hot, especially if the current had a lower resistance path to travel.

Check all your pins, ive never had one heat up???

Replaced the wires today did seem to help, but 555 still getting mighty warm at 18V .8 Amp. Checked pins.

But, battery charging MUCH better now....