Peter Daysh Davey Water Heater Query

[wrtner]

As far as I'm concerned, Dumas hijacked Davey's tech! The fact that Dumas doesn't at least acknowledge Davey concerning this 'discovery' is just wrong. But Dumas gives us something else to go on - I had read up on everything there was on Davey, had tried & failed to replicate the effect.

I reckon that the Dumas physics has nothing to do with that of Davey.

When you worked on Davey, what gear were you using? What results did you get?

[sprocket]

This thread is about Davey.

Are you talking about Dumas?

As far as I'm concerned, Dumas hijacked Davey's tech! The fact that Dumas doesn't at least acknowledge Davey concerning this 'discovery' is just wrong. But Dumas gives us something else to go on - I had read up on everything there was on Davey, had tried & failed to replicate the effect.

[wrtner]

A couple of other things rattling around in my head. If it's all in the dimensions, golden ratios, tuning - call it what you will - it would seem that having accurately-sized spheres would be a prerequisite.

This thread is about Davey.

Are you talking about Dumas?

[sprocket]

I don't reckon this technology is specifically about distilling; it is about the generation of heat which, of course, can be put to the matter of boiling.

As the gear generates steam, it is the processes which count, not the steam per se. Cavitation, possibly. Personally, I don't rate Dumas or Savic. Davey may well be the approach that delivers. But it needs very accurate tuning which is everything. The resonance between the frequency of the bells, spheres, and the driving voltage.

A couple of other things rattling around in my head. If it's all in the dimensions, golden ratios, tuning - call it what you will - it would seem that having accurately-sized spheres would be a prerequisite. Accurate in the sense of having the inside diameter of one exactly matching the outside diameter of the one that fits inside it - I think these would be very difficult to find given the millimeter-difference involved. Second, however the effect is produced, the end-result is steam that is being produced in an enclosure that is immersed in cold water. This steam has to find a way through this 'barrier' somehow and it seems inevitable that the vast majority will simply reform back into water - this seems an extremely inefficient way of doing things! It would seem much more sensible to drop/trickle/pour water into the apparatus from the top (somehow) - that way the steam is liberated into the air and not into cold water. Thinking about it, if there is an OU-gain here, even when the majority of the steam is condensing straight back to water, how much better it would be with a well thought-out setup?

[wrtner]

I had come across this which I thought might do the trick - I'm particularly interested in distilling water (cheaply)

I don't reckon this technology is specifically about distilling; it is about the generation of heat which, of course, can be put to the matter of boiling.

As the gear generates steam, it is the processes which count, not the steam per se. Cavitation, possibly. Personally, I don't rate Dumas or Savic. Davey may well be the approach that delivers. But it needs very accurate tuning which is everything. The resonance between the frequency of the bells, spheres, and the driving voltage.

[sprocket]

I had come across this which I thought might do the trick - I'm particularly interested in distilling water (cheaply) and this would fit snugly into my distiller. The more I think about it, the less sense it makes though. This seems to be vapourising water just within the 1.6mm space between the hemispheres. With this submerged and surrounded by cold water, most of the steam produced will just recombine back to form water! Having this submerged just doesn't make sense to me! A much more efficient use of power would seem be a flash-steam approach. That and doing it in a partial vacuum. Never understood why there is nothing commercially available that takes this approach. Sorry, I seem to be going off at a tangent.

[kenssurplus]

locating metal spheres

Here is an online source I found just by googling "metal spheres":

Metal Hollow Balls | Metal Spheres | Stainless Steel Balls


I can't see why they would be so hard to find or to design a device around.

[wrtner]

And still can't - can anyone point to an online source?

The trouble is I cannot see why anyone would make spheres.

Some ladles and bowls sold in kitchen supplies shops can be a hemishere. Then solder or glue them together.

[sprocket]

A COP of 1.16 is a waste of space.

This is soaked up by someone measuring mains voltage during the advertisements of a popular TV show (when everyone rushes out to put the kettle on and so they have to drop the voltage a bit to cope with the demand) and then using that figure later as a basis for the experiment.

It is well within experimental error.

I was indirectly quoting the video and agree that these COP's are borderline experimental-error. Claiming OU but not shown any measurements is always a red-flag as well. And that 500W to heat his home is downright suspect even at a cursory glance.

[wrtner]

Also, even though this would seem to deliver a terminal blow to the COE, is it really an 'efficient' (1.16 COP) way of heating your home?

A COP of 1.16 is a waste of space.

This is soaked up by someone measuring mains voltage during the advertisements of a popular TV show (when everyone rushes out to put the kettle on and so they have to drop the voltage a bit to cope with the demand) and then using that figure later as a basis for the experiment.

It is well within experimental error.

[sprocket]

I wonder if the system absolutely HAS to be in the form of a sphere, or cylinder.
What if it was made of two flat plates separated by insulated washers of the correct thickness? The important thing seems to be the spacing between the two electrodes.

When I tried this, my spheres were definitely non-spherical - SS egg-cups of various sizes, therefore oval, simply because I couldn't source any appropriate spheres at the time. And still can't - can anyone point to an online source? I also tried a square-wave of a couple of hundred watts, varying its frequency - nothing, although I wasn't surprised then as I presumed that this was far too low a power level.

I also tried varying the distance between the 'spheres' to no effect - but not to the 1.6mm that Dumas suggests (for safety reasons obviously). Without these 'natural' ratios (according to him), it cannot work, which would explain my failure.

Also, even though this would seem to deliver a terminal blow to the COE, is it really an 'efficient' (1.16 COP) way of heating your home? He claims to heat his home for 500W, that's 12kWh, or running full-time, 4380kWh per year. A bit of searching shows that a low-energy German home uses 50kWh/m2/annum. Whereas this link deals with average house sizes. Since France isn't quoted directly, I'll use the UK figure which is 76m2. This says that a typical low-energy European house requires 3800kWh per annum to heat. Ok, it wouldn't be running 24/7, but how long would it take 500W to heat a house from say 5degC to 20degC? And then to sustain it at a comfortable level? 500W seems way way too little - heating a small room with 500W would be a struggle. And that miserly COP wouldn't dig it of this hole either! Or am I mistaken?

[wrtner]

I wonder if the system absolutely HAS to be in the form of a sphere, or cylinder.
What if it was made of two flat plates separated by insulated washers of the correct thickness? The important thing seems to be the spacing between the two electrodes.

Interesting observation.

I have wondered if a tuning fork with insulated plates araldited to the prongs would serve. The frequency is certain (although the gluing may shift it a bit). Then drive with a sig gen through a regular Hi-Fi amplifier, being sure that the output impedance is reasonable (or the amp will be blown).

I suspect that cavitation is involved and curved bodies focus the effect to the centre of curvature in some relevant way.

[wrtner]

Octaves ARE harmonics...

...but harmonics are not octaves (probably).


All horses are four legged animals
~therefore:
All four legged animals are horses

Discuss.
.

[Altair]

I wonder if the system absolutely HAS to be in the form of a sphere, or cylinder.
What if it was made of two flat plates separated by insulated washers of the correct thickness? The important thing seems to be the spacing between the two electrodes.

[Altair]

Dear Chet,

Interesting. What Tesla water heater? Which of his patents?

I can't remember about Savic but Davey is not about harmonics; he is about octaves.

Octaves ARE harmonics. Each successive octave is double of the preceeding harmonic, ie: 2,4,8,16...