Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[kajunkreations]

@ shadez..

yes, 1" neos and 1" cores, the mix was 70/30, like a paste,very difficult to fill the mold. the mesh is 350, very fine. It is possible that it was too thick, i was thinking that as i made them. I want to get a few opinions and try again.

[toranarod]

I like this coil arrangement.

do you have any more specification on this idea. I have a few old TV EHT Ferris former's that would do for this. But I am not in favor of ferrite.

[kajunkreations]

conical coil

ok, so i wound the coil anyway and the results are not good. the dc voltage unloaded was 1.6 volts. Im going to drill a hole through the core and insert a piece of iron and see if the helps the voltage. I dont think the core is good.

[Shadesz]

ok guys, Ive just removed the cores from the molds and the came out pretty good as far as shape and no trapped air. But the permeability seems very low. Im pretty sure I followed Peters instructions very carefully. The magnet is attracted to the core pretty good, but I cannot pick up a washer on the opposite end of the core.
Opinions please, should i just try again or wind one and see?

hmmm, you are using 1 inch neo magnets right?

I would almost want to try again. If teh core doesn't pull the field, your coil farther away from the magnet wont pick it up.

If you do it again I would suggest something.
Buy some magnesium ribbon, burn it. Separate the ashes form the white magnesium oxide and chop the magnesium oxide into a fine power. Apply the release agent onto your mold and dust (perhaps with an art paint brush) the release agent with it. (I saw this on a core recipe once. Haven't done it yet though.) Magnesium is used in some superconductors.

You can also mix in some low % of copper oxide and as much Nickel Oxide as you can afford. Notice MuMetal is 75% Nickel.

How fine was your magnetite? Screened to what size?
I have a very strong feeling that it must be very fine to work properly. Peter said the particles have to align and touch end to end. If the particle size is too large, they will not be able to turn as easily during curing.

Lastly, I read on their website that bill used a 70 to 30 rate of magnetite to resin (It didn't say if that was by weight or volume). What would you say your ratio was? I wonder if you do not use enough resin again, the particles can't move freely enough to line up and touch end to end.

[toranarod]

mariuscivic, could you please post a drawing of how you had the generator coil wired up with the load and the capacitor, transformer and everything ? No need for the drive coil circuit.

Here's a few things I would like to try, but it will take some time for me to get a decent rotor assembled. Unless I can find something suitable. I marked them in order of preference for me to try. The top two 3 and 4 don't have any cap's drawn but the idea is well known I think. The bottom one's I drew caps, but I couldn't say if it would be the correct way to do it without trying it.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Microwave Fans have core's/coils that could easily be mdified to make small "C" shaped Stator coils. Not sure if it would be any better than two coils in series on each side but, I would like to try it.

I like Rods car timing bearing setup I think it is, for a rotor bearing.

Cheers

Thank you
your circuit drawing is very clear please keep us up to date with all specification. if that's OK

I am looking for that bit extra with the Lenz push. Just need to be able to create a set up where the generator coil appear completely inert to the motor driving it. Acceleration under load is fantastic it needs to compared with no coil in the motor. as the best possible result.
is there a Video showing this comparison.

[kajunkreations]

magnetite cores

ok guys, Ive just removed the cores from the molds and the came out pretty good as far as shape and no trapped air. But the permeability seems very low. Im pretty sure I followed Peters instructions very carefully. The magnet is attracted to the core pretty good, but I cannot pick up a washer on the opposite end of the core.
Opinions please, should i just try again or wind one and see?

[Farmhand]

mariuscivic, could you please post a drawing of how you had the generator coil wired up with the load and the capacitor, transformer and everything ? No need for the drive coil circuit.

Here's a few things I would like to try, but it will take some time for me to get a decent rotor assembled. Unless I can find something suitable. I marked them in order of preference for me to try. The top two 3 and 4 don't have any cap's drawn but the idea is well known I think. The bottom one's I drew caps, but I couldn't say if it would be the correct way to do it without trying it.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Microwave Fans have core's/coils that could easily be mdified to make small "C" shaped Stator coils. Not sure if it would be any better than two coils in series on each side but, I would like to try it.

I like Rods car timing bearing setup I think it is, for a rotor bearing.

Cheers

[Farmhand]

Small update video (just for fun)
strange behavior of the coil part 2 - YouTube

Hi mariuscivic, Cool video's. This looks like the generator coil is part of a resonant tank. I like it.

This makes sense to do. If the capacitor is variable it can be adjusted for different speeds and power depending on the resistive load. I think.

Very cool video. Even though with no load the rotor accelerated as well, because no load is not very usefull.

But this video shows acceleration while powering a load, by adding the capacitor. The capacitor can obviously do the job of the capacitive storage of the energy, and this way should work at lower initial speeds too with a larger inductance and/or capacitance or at faster speeds with a smaller inductance and/or capacitance. And the amount of usable power might be able to be determined by the tank value's as well.

Anyone else think it looks like a "resonant motor generator drive" ?

I like it and I think my attentions will go towards trying to get something happening like I see in this video.

I'm nervous of the high speed rotors, I've worked in industry and seen accidents. I think this could work at lower speeds. And push another generator coil or use two tanks or two coils in series with one capacitor to get the tank, each coil repeling a magnet to spread the load a bit.

Cheers

[qvision]

Thanks for the update Rod.

@ All,

this guy demonstrates a Lenz-beater where the rotor is Muller-ish rather than Adams-ish :

kdkinen's Channel - YouTube


QV.

[toranarod]

50 mm coil with 24 mm Core.

Today I tested a very different setup. One extreme to the other.
Was not expecting great results from this and that's basically what we got.
must test and document to be sure.

In the Photo below you see the Romero Replica, With one large coil and core.
I made the core with Welding rods and epoxy them into center of the coil.
The coil is 50mm in diameter and core is 24 mm in diameter core is flush with the surface of the coil at the magnet face.

I could not get any reduction in Lenz drag until the rotor was pushed to a speed 6200 RPM. At around 7000 RPM we started to get acceleration under short.
The coil is 1.8 mH at 0.6 OHM. Magnet to coil Gap 1mm to 1.5.
Magnets 22mm diameter.
Voltage generated at 6000RPM was 70 volts 0PK and could light a 60 WATT house globe.

the coil and core was starting to over heat under short circuit conditions and I needed to cut the experiment short for today.



One other point. Note the magnet on top of the coil. I tried the tuning of Romero's with this monster. it was a bit scary at 7000 RPM but it had a very noticeable effect in improving of things. As Romero suggested. This was an interesting success.








Thanks for the Photo. I will now be going back to my 10mm magnets.
your Opinion is well noted Thank you.

[marxist]

Didn't you demonstrate this twice? Once using the laminated iron core and once using the MuMetal?

Yes I did, This is why I am asking others I can only get this on my other motor.
Tying to find the cause is taking all my effort.

Hi toranarod,

if I understand correctly, with your Adams rotor you achieved higher speed with a shorted coil than at idle.

One reason why you might not get that results with the Muller arrangement may be a difference in the magnet spacing.
I think on your Muller disc the magnet-to-gap-ratio is approx. 33% to 66%. That means one magnet covers approx. 33% of one phase (see attached drawing).

Did your Adams arrangement with which you got higher speed at short have the same magnet-to-gap-ratio?

[Shadesz]

Rod,

I just e-mailed you. You may want to read it. It might give you some ideas to try. If they help you get it working feel free to post the design and results.

[Shadesz]

Interesting...

So you are having difficulty replicating it in a Muller where the magnet path is directly parallel to the face of the coil/core, BUT you can get it to work on your Adams where the magnet path has a curved approach/departure to the coil/core?

At least that is my guess as to why.

If you notice, most of the accelerating effects you see are with Adams style coil placement on SMALL rotors. I wonder if the curved path has something to do with it?

I kind of suspected this. I think I know a way that might correct it, but lets wait to see if others have achieved a negative lenz force?

[toranarod]

Didn't you demonstrate this twice? Once using the laminated iron core and once using the MuMetal?

Yes I did, This is why I am asking others I can only get this on my other motor.
Tying to find the cause is taking all my effort. I can not make it happen in the Muller Replica. it only works on my Bedini type motor .
I look for a red herring If you get my drift.
This is not a success unless I can make it work by my design not by chance.
On the Muller I can only achieve neutral Lenz.

[quantumuppercut]

I would Like to ask of all the people who have successfully experimented with acceleration under load. As in a dead short circuit?
Is there any body who has observed an increase in speed beyond the speed of the motor when there is no coil present.
If this was possible you could assume a load would drive the motor. Would this be a correct assumption?

I would welcome any thoughts on this?
I would say natural Lenz is the best we can hope for. Has it ever been demonstrated other wise?

I don't know but Thane seems to be working on a bike.

"Q. It seems you could just spin up a rotor with magnets on it, turn off the power to the rotor (the airgun for example), add the regenerative acceleration generator coils, and the rotor would keep spinning continuously. Why don't you perform such a test?

A. We are! This is the basis for the Kinetic Energy Generator bike trailer idea where we are going to be doing just that but in a "real life application" getting away from "lab bench" demo units which people are critical of no matter what we show. A bicycle and rider accelerating down the road while the rider is NOT pedaling should put an end to all debate once and for all. Basically, it is this generator scenario on wheels, with many more coils. "

Thane Heins' Regenerative Acceleration Generator Goes Instead of Stopping