Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[toranarod]

Well the one I am showing is Metglass but even Mu metal should be good for testing a rolled core. You see any type of magnet against a coil is working with one arm tied behind its back. It only has one side of the core to attack. Yes the Magnet can attack from both polarities onto two coils but it does not change the fact that each core is hit only on one side. Thus looking for ways to disperse the energy throughout the core as quickly and as strong as possible is a main requirement. A rolled core may help since everything happening anywhere will happen everywhere.

If anyone wants to do a test to see the maximum energy their cores can transfer with any core having two winds, all you need is that and an AC rheostat. Just connect the coil, rheostat in series to a mains supply that will give you 110VAC but that you can bring down to 25vac. Then place a load on the other coil and measure the output. Play with the rheostat to see how high you can go without burning the coil. This will give you the maximum throughput of your coil/core under ideal conditions where the core is being initiated from both ends. Be careful to not get a shock when on the mains.

wattsup

Added: The test may be better for you if you use a step down ac transformer, then the rheostat to the coil. I realize the above may be to strong for the type of coils on a wheel. The point here is that any coil that you plan on making 18 copies should be tested first for their maximum output potential. This is why you are making them right. For their maximum output potential, I do not mean when on a wheel, I mean under maximum conditions, how much juice can this juicer produce. If the number is low, hmmmmm, maybe look again. You can simulate it how you want, you need to know this about that one coil before you make 17 more. Once you know this, it may guide the way you run the wheel.

sounds like fun I have a a variac transformer. just in Austrlia we have 240 volts LOL That's ok. I get it the experiment. See if i can roll up the MU tight enough.

[toranarod]

I took some data yesterday of a basic setup. I will use that.

I recorded a speed of 4728 RPM and some lenz drag efficacy was present at that velocity.

At 4728 RPM and a rotor diameter of 200 millimeters. We have a surface tip speed. of 178 Kmh. this then calculates to 49511 mm a second. the Magnets are closer in but for now leave it at that.

My hole coil had a Diameter of 50mm. How long did it take for the coil to pass the magnet? There are other factors here to, how far is it before it's out of range of the magnetic fields effect.

pass speed 1.01 milliseconds do we agree?

If you get different figures Please correct me.

using the LR time constant L= 3.94mH / 1.32 Ohm = 2.98 milliseconds to 63%
magnetic field.

this seem to be right because there was a reduction of Lenz at this RPM

Now what about the core?

[wattsup]

would a rolled MU metal core do for a test? i have a small amount of MU metal
that is fine like paper. would that do?

Well the one I am showing is Metglass but even Mu metal should be good for testing a rolled core. You see any type of magnet against a coil is working with one arm tied behind its back. It only has one side of the core to attack. Yes the Magnet can attack from both polarities onto two coils but it does not change the fact that each core is hit only on one side. Thus looking for ways to disperse the energy throughout the core as quickly and as strong as possible is a main requirement. A rolled core may help since everything happening anywhere will happen everywhere.

If anyone wants to do a test to see the maximum energy their cores can transfer with any core having two winds, all you need is that and an AC rheostat. Just connect the coil, rheostat in series to a mains supply that will give you 110VAC but that you can bring down to 25vac. Then place a load on the other coil and measure the output. Play with the rheostat to see how high you can go without burning the coil. This will give you the maximum throughput of your coil/core under ideal conditions where the core is being initiated from both ends. Be careful to not get a shock when on the mains.

wattsup

Added: The test may be better for you if you use a step down ac transformer, then the rheostat to the coil. I realize the above may be to strong for the type of coils on a wheel. The point here is that any coil that you plan on making 18 copies should be tested first for their maximum output potential. This is why you are making them right. For their maximum output potential, I do not mean when on a wheel, I mean under maximum conditions, how much juice can this juicer produce. If the number is low, hmmmmm, maybe look again. You can simulate it how you want, you need to know this about that one coil before you make 17 more. Once you know this, it may guide the way you run the wheel.

[toranarod]

@All

Has anyone ever tired rolling a core, instead of using straight laminates?
Metglass nanocrystalline tape for MEG generator | eBay

The straight laminates may be good when you are driving with AC the primary of a transformer. The AC produces coil initiation that alternates from both sides of the laminates at once.

But with a magnet passing a core, only that one side of the core will ever be initiated and with straight laminates, the dead ends cannot be initiated from both ends so you have one end of the laminate that is initiated and one end that is not.

So maybe by using a rolled core that is one laminate rolled at least all parts of the core will be initiated from first contact of the magnet field right through the complete passage. It is kind of hard to explain but it has to do with power dissipation in the core transferring to the coil. With straight laminates, you can only dissipate backwards to a dead end. With the rolled core you can dissipate right away to the rest of the core as soon as any part of it is hit by the magnet.

@mariuscivic



In your video I would like to know if you can try something very easy.

Regarding the magnet and coil you had in your hand, can you remove the magnet and connect the coil is series with the drive coil but not on the pulsed side. The connected coil should not be near the wheel. Simply placed on the table and connected in series with the drive coil.

You can try other coils (even transformer primary or secondary) in that same position and see if you notice any difference in wheel rotation without the gen coils or even with the gen coils.

I would be very interested to learn of what this effect will do. Also, I have a list of comprehensive drive coils tests if anyone that has a dual drive coil pair and is interested.

Maybe one last thing. You showed the gen coil with a transformer and a bulb being lit. This shows that cascading coils is more then possible. If you took a simple coil like your drive coil and connected it to the gen coil, then you can place that second coil as a drive coil and find the best angle to see if it will help more in rotation.

I am in the process of planning my own wheel and of course am relying on present builders results to plan for as many variables as possible.

wattsup

PS:Keep up the good works guys. I love it.

would a rolled MU metal core do for a test? i have a small amount of MU metal
that is fine like paper. would that do?

[toranarod]

great video explaining how to calculate the Lenz delay:

Calculation of the Delayed Lenz Effect - YouTube

Fausto.

This is a great video and very well presented. and correct. I have done many Time constant calculation on coils to.
His calculation are good but only part off the equation. lets take this a bit further. and look at core diameter and rotor circumference. all part of the time factor.
there are some other factors that need to be considered. Core materials is one.



it also suggests there best will only be percentage neutralization of lenz drag.

So what about the core if it remains magnetized for a short period of time?

[wattsup]

@All

Has anyone ever tired rolling a core, instead of using straight laminates?
Metglass nanocrystalline tape for MEG generator | eBay

The straight laminates may be good when you are driving with AC the primary of a transformer. The AC produces coil initiation that alternates from both sides of the laminates at once.

But with a magnet passing a core, only that one side of the core will ever be initiated and with straight laminates, the dead ends cannot be initiated from both ends so you have one end of the laminate that is initiated and one end that is not.

So maybe by using a rolled core that is one laminate rolled at least all parts of the core will be initiated from first contact of the magnet field right through the complete passage. It is kind of hard to explain but it has to do with power dissipation in the core transferring to the coil. With straight laminates, you can only dissipate backwards to a dead end. With the rolled core you can dissipate right away to the rest of the core as soon as any part of it is hit by the magnet.

@mariuscivic

Small update video (just for fun)
strange behavior of the coil part 2 - YouTube

In your video I would like to know if you can try something very easy.

Regarding the magnet and coil you had in your hand, can you remove the magnet and connect the coil is series with the drive coil but not on the pulsed side. The connected coil should not be near the wheel. Simply placed on the table and connected in series with the drive coil.

You can try other coils (even transformer primary or secondary) in that same position and see if you notice any difference in wheel rotation without the gen coils or even with the gen coils.

I would be very interested to learn of what this effect will do. Also, I have a list of comprehensive drive coils tests if anyone that has a dual drive coil pair and is interested.

Maybe one last thing. You showed the gen coil with a transformer and a bulb being lit. This shows that cascading coils is more then possible. If you took a simple coil like your drive coil and connected it to the gen coil, then you can place that second coil as a drive coil and find the best angle to see if it will help more in rotation.

I am in the process of planning my own wheel and of course am relying on present builders results to plan for as many variables as possible.

wattsup

PS:Keep up the good works guys. I love it.

[mariuscivic]

mariuscivic, could you please post a drawing of how you had the generator coil wired up with the load and the capacitor, transformer and everything ? No need for the drive coil circuit.


Cheers

Here it is

[elias]

U laminates

Like these ones I found in the mountains:

[plengo]

great video explaining how to calculate the Lenz delay:

Calculation of the Delayed Lenz Effect - YouTube

Fausto.

[toranarod]

This is the schematic of my controller. All my design and programming.
I had a few PCB made in china. When things where cheaper.

[Farmhand]

Yes I appologise, I don't want to sidetrack anyone. My interest is peaked, and like some others I'm keen to get something spinning to test some stuff out.

Rod, can I ask you what kind of micro processors you use ?

MonsieurM thats a very interesting link you provided. That's a keeper.

Towards the end I noticed some good bit's. That caught my eye. The part in bold sounds like backwards "Antigravity" or a gravity effect of some kind.

Electric and Magnetic Charges ~

In subsequent experiments Ehrenhaft established that particles can carry both electric and magnetic charges at the same time as evidenced by their motion in gas or liquid. He theorized that the magnetic charge equaled the electric charge on particles of the same size. In one experiment, the particles rotated around the magnetic current because of their electric charges. Because of their magnetic charges, bubbles moved either upeard or downward. Their resulting path was a helix and could be seen "even by the naked eye to be circulating in a counterclockwise direction, when looking upon the face of the S pole. This movement carried the bubbles downward, even against the force of buoyancy". (Ref. 12)

And this sounds too good to be true, 50 million volts, my goodness.

Magnetic Motors ~

Science writer John W. Campbell, Jr, however, envisioned magnetic charges with mutual attraction forces equivalent to millions of volts operating in small practical machines. He speculated that, "A magneto-electret --- consisting of a coil of magnetic conductor carrying a heavy magnetic current --- would develop electric potentials that did not tend to arc across. Perhaps a small magnetic coil would develop 50,000,000 volt potentials that could tear atoms apart". (Ref. 1)

Very interesting document.
Felix Ehrenhaft: Magnetic Current --- 9 articles

[toranarod]

Here is the idea I was talking about. Simply stated we angle the core face so as to add a sideways force to the rotor. There is a lot to this so please read the description.



When using a high permeable core I believe this will allow us to minimize some lenz drag as the magnet approaches the rotor. (the magnet is attracted to the pickup point of the core, vs the copper coil)

You will also notice that I placed the magnets where they will have a neutral side to side force. I think this is very important.

I feel the second design has more potential because of where this 'neutral' point is located. Notice that it is off center from the coil (after the coil). We can use that I think.

Also notice... with a properly designed assymetric generator, all but one of your coil (sets) will be propelling the rotor forward. I wonder if the forward propulsion is enough to overcome the cogg from the one coil. Can you say free forward motion anyone? If not that is ok, every bit of efficiency we can design into one of these generators the better.

And lastly, the core will not saturate so abruptly (it will charge based on the relation of the distance of the magnet to the core). This gradual charge will cause the output energy to be more of a wave than a spike. Not sure if we want that in these systems, I just suspect that it is an inherent result of this core design. Do you think a more gradual wave is a good thing to have here?

Last edit: here is a link to the thread I created to help us calculate this sideways force...
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...ce-magnet.html

I posted back on your other thread.

Whats happening. Has every body been visited by aliens. Where are all the new ideas coming from.. I cant keep up.

[toranarod]

Ok call me crazy, but has anyone entertained the idea of using an outrunner like rod has, and using that to spin up the Muller rotor with gen coils and a couple of drive coils, to many rpm ( really fast ) then when the speed up happens engage the drive coils to keep it spinning and switch the out runner from power to generate.

Some gen coils could be high impedance speed-up one's and some gen coils for current. This way in high speed mode the accelerator gen coils and the pulse/drive coils would spin the rotor and the current gen coils and the outrunner could power loads. Maybe. The pulse drive coils being on the outside would have some leverage to work with against the outrunner as would the accelerator gen coils. Possibly the speed could be controlled by the pulse drive coils a bit.

Anyway I just thought I would ask if anyone has thought along those lines.

On a side note I'm surprised to see how much power it require's to run most appliances with motors. No wonder there is an energy crisis. 750 watts for a blender. I think i'll use the knife more.

Cheers

That's a very good idea. would need a bigger out runner. I wish it was quick to setup some of theses experiments.

[toranarod]

Interesting idea. Good job. Let us know how it turns out.

OK this becomes this.

Its so easy to get side tracked in this game

[MonsieurM]

I like this coil arrangement.

.

Felix Ehrenhaft: Magnetic Current --- 9 articles