Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[toranarod]

Hey guys, I have decided to use the outrunner method to drive the generator for more consistency. I am using a altenator BLDC as the out runner, I can now spin the rotor at 4200 rpm, so mabey I do get some good data. I still have not found the core composition that I like yet but Im still trying.
The BLDC has tremendous, I can light a 100 watt 120v light bulb on one pair of coils and it does not lose rpm, but the motor draws more current. The BLDC only spins at 1800 rpm @ 24v, Im not sure if that is normal or not, I have seen videos of them going way faster than that, so Im still working on that. Any info would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Nolan
Here is a videomuller generator with BLDC motor - YouTube

it's all looking good keep putting more information as you go. looking forward to your Results.

[toranarod]

Bill Muller Secret

Ok now I am confused...
I thought our way of maximizing phase shifts was to maximize inductance and minimize resistance? But how does that relate to what this guy has to say about calculating phase shifts?



Magnequest - Transformers and Phase Shifts

Notice his conclusion (the underlined part in the quote). Isn't this the opposite of what our current thinking is? Can someone help me understand?

[kajunkreations]

out runner

Hey guys, I have decided to use the outrunner method to drive the generator for more consistency. I am using a altenator BLDC as the out runner, I can now spin the rotor at 4200 rpm, so mabey I do get some good data. I still have not found the core composition that I like yet but Im still trying.
The BLDC has tremendous, I can light a 100 watt 120v light bulb on one pair of coils and it does not lose rpm, but the motor draws more current. The BLDC only spins at 1800 rpm @ 24v, Im not sure if that is normal or not, I have seen videos of them going way faster than that, so Im still working on that. Any info would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Nolan
Here is a videomuller generator with BLDC motor - YouTube

[kEhYo77]

You're right. But in NNN configuration i don't think it's the same...

That is correct. Romero said 2.5 minimum spacing for muller style rotor in NNN config, but you have found it on your own

A tip for All the builders: It is of very high importance to have all the generator coils match perfectly to one another. Preferably they should be identical, then the effect will be consistent for each coil at certain speed.

[toranarod]

Hey Rod,

That is correct mate. I have not been on forums long, however, has aided
my experiments having like minded people building the same devices
I'm finally obtaining all the parts for the Muller/RomeroUK replication at the
same time as my current projects, now to find the time

Regards
Zero

great to see. you would know just from the word Torana I am Aussie.
A Torana is a gateway seen in Buddhist architecture. its also an aboriginal word like the wind they named a car after.

[mariuscivic]

Hi mariuscivic. Recently Romero shared the info about the magnet spacing.
If I remember correctly it is to be minimum 1.2 times of the magnet width between adjacent poles in NS configuration.

Pozdro!

Hi kEhYo77!

You're right. But in NNN configuration i don't think it's the same. I've allready put on my rotor 10 mags (10/10mm) witch gave a distance of 20mm between them and i had trouble with my hall senzor.It was very dificult to find the ''sweat spot'' for triggering and I couldn't spin the rotor more than 3000 rpm. In my curent rotor the space between the mags is 25mm. Those 5 mm more make a huge difference . I think it's very important the strenght of the magnetic field.

[qvision]

After days of testing ... here is my first result, thanks to Romero for advising the single coil/many RPM test


Speed Under Load Test.


COIL :

24 SWG (0.56mm, 23 AWG is closest at 0.573mm)

L = 53 mH
R = 60 Ohms

55mm long and 37mm wide.

Coil former barrel diameter is 15mm.

Unsure of number of turns since shop bought.


ROTOR :

VHS motor.

Diameter : 60mm


MAGNETS :

8 x 10mm diameter x 5mm height disc magnets, grade N42.
Magnets arranged N/S.


DRIVE CIRCUITRY :

Standard SSG drive circuit with charging diode removed.


RESULTS :

At 1100 RPM, shorting the coil increased the RPM to 1290

The input current went up from 115 mA to 120 mA

I will now do more testing and post results

I have done more testing and at some spots the RPM goes up while the current draw remains the same and i have just found my first spot where RPM goes up and current draw goes down.

@ Marius, this is at low RPM's starting off at around 1000 and the effect is there.

I do what ewizard advises and i put some MDF and some tool boxes around the device to catch any escaping magnets.

[ewizard]

Hi Toranarod
I did damage my rotor;tryed to fix it but in the end one magnet flew off. I was very lucky it didn't hit me . It flew off around 6000 rpm. So now i bouth other 16 mags (10/10mm cube n48) becouse i want to make a new rotor with the duble nr of magnets hopping i will get the same effect at lower rpm.Since i want to make a new one please tell me if you now what is the best distance between the mags. I'm also on the other forum Muller Dynamo . Im changing very frequently my setup becouse now i have some more time and also i have many ideas. I'm doing that becouse not always the theory is the same as practice. Yesterday i connected the gen coils between them before the bridges and i did get the speeding in dead short but not in load. Didn't knew what to do with that, i've changed once again my setup

Warned you about that didn't I ? Glad you're okay but please guys this isn't worth getting killed or injured over. It's like playing Russian Routlette. Put a fence of some sort around your setup if you are going to go for the higher RPM's. A simple 1/2" or so plywood or other wooden perimeter will protect you from most projectiles. And easy to find scrap plywood free at almost any construction site if you don't have some.

[Rogla]

Ok now I am confused...
I thought our way of maximizing phase shifts was to maximize inductance and minimize resistance? But how does that relate to what this guy has to say about calculating phase shifts?

Magnequest - Transformers and Phase Shifts

Notice his conclusion (the underlined part in the quote). Isn't this the opposite of what our current thinking is? Can someone help me understand?

He does not use the standard definition of the angle. He looks at "phase angle equals arc tan of the quantity R divided by X" , arctan(R/X).

The standard definition is arctan(X/R).

See Phasor Diagrams here: Phase Relationships in AC Circuits

[kEhYo77]

Hi mariuscivic. Recently Romero shared the info about the magnet spacing.
If I remember correctly it is to be minimum 1.2 times of the magnet width between adjacent poles in NS configuration.

Pozdro!

[mariuscivic]

Has anybody seen mariuscivic
I heard you damaged your motor?
Did you get your Diodes?

Hi Toranarod
I did damage my rotor;tryed to fix it but in the end one magnet flew off. I was very lucky it didn't hit me . It flew off around 6000 rpm. So now i bouth other 16 mags (10/10mm cube n48) becouse i want to make a new rotor with the duble nr of magnets hopping i will get the same effect at lower rpm.Since i want to make a new one please tell me if you now what is the best distance between the mags. I'm also on the other forum Muller Dynamo . Im changing very frequently my setup becouse now i have some more time and also i have many ideas. I'm doing that becouse not always the theory is the same as practice. Yesterday i connected the gen coils between them before the bridges and i did get the speeding in dead short but not in load. Didn't knew what to do with that, i've changed once again my setup

[Shadesz]

Ok now I am confused...
I thought our way of maximizing phase shifts was to maximize inductance and minimize resistance? But how does that relate to what this guy has to say about calculating phase shifts?

The practical use of this chart is that anyone could select the frequency of interest and the amount of phase shift that they would allow and then calculate how much inductance would be required to satisfy the desired phase shift allowed.

This illustrates that the lower the phase shift you desire the greater the inductive reactance must be at any given frequency which you select.

Magnequest - Transformers and Phase Shifts

Notice his conclusion (the underlined part in the quote). Isn't this the opposite of what our current thinking is? Can someone help me understand?

[qvision]

Hi ZPE,

i like your idea about phi and circuitry, i don't know if anyone has tried it. Can you give us a schematic of what you tried ?

[ZeropointEnergy]

Yep an Aussie

I assume you are in Australia then? there are more Aussies joining all the time.

Hey Rod,

That is correct mate. I have not been on forums long, however, has aided
my experiments having like minded people building the same devices
I'm finally obtaining all the parts for the Muller/RomeroUK replication at the
same time as my current projects, now to find the time

Regards
Zero

[toranarod]

Has anybody seen mariuscivic
I heard you damaged your motor?
Did you get your Diodes?