Electric Motor Secrets

[Jetijs]

Elias, those are some good results
If you chop the ON pulses so that they are eaqual to the coils rise time, then you should get the best inpututput ratio. Do you have some current scope shots? If you have, then you can easily calculate the best pulse lenght
Thank you,
Jetijs

[elias]

Some tests

Hi,

Thank you Peter, this means a lot to me.

I did some tests with higher voltage, here is the result:
Input: 42v, 550mA
Output: 6.7v, 1.2A
Running at around 7500 RPM

The recovered energy is more than 34% of the input used at 7500 RPM and the mechanical power is considerably strong at around 3000RPM (which draws about 1A), which is impossible to stop by holding the shaft.

But the input current increases when loading it to a lower speed. (due to the increase "on time" of the coil)

Some more test to be done tomorrow after I modify the circuit and try pulsing the coil with a function generator to find the optimum pulsing rate.

Elias

[ren]

To Erfinder,

I have been fascinated by your work and ideas in other forums, Im glad you found us here, and I hope you continue to visit and post!

Ren

[erfinder]

Dear Erfinder,
This material is the industry standard for these applications and works properly for our requirements.
Peter

This is what I was looking for. Thank you sir!


Regards

[Peter Lindemann]

Slow Down

Peter,

For my first post I would like ask you a very important question. I am finalizing my construction plans for an electric motor which is very closely related to your attraction motor. I have found that Silicon steel is very hard to come by, and when one can get it, after it has been properly prepared individuals of limited means cannot afford it. My question is, what over the counter sheet steel grade is best suited for these types of devices. High permeability and almost zero retentivity. Thanking you in advance.

Please forgive me if this was posted in the wrong area.


P.S.

I was looking forward to meeting you in Heidelberg Germany November 2006 at the 150 Tesla Conference. I was the guest of Walter Baumgartner. Jeanne Manning came in your place, one day I hope to meet you.


Regards

Dear Erfinder,

Before you go out and start substituting materials to save money, you really need to read this whole thread. A number of experimenters did a lot of work on models that failed because they started with the wrong materials. I do not recommend any substitutions for motor laminations. This material is the industry standard for these applications and works properly for our requirements. You are better off saving up your money and doing it right the first time, than cutting corners and working hard for months, only to end up with a model that doesn't work properly.

The Internet is full of bargains. Put your time into looking for a good deal on the right material.

Peter

[Peter Lindemann]

Advanced Timing

Peter,

I moved the hall switch from the center top to the right and to the left, to find out the place at which the highest RPM is acheived and I found out that the highest speed happens a bit to the right, where the rotor tends to move backwards initially, which seems so odd. Anyway, I am charging a battery with a diode, at the moment with the collapsed. My circuit enables me to use a different voltage for the power coil from the voltage required for the hall effect device, so I can do this easily. But what voltage is good for this purpose? I mean the back spikes are hitting so hardly at the moment, and it would make the back spikes go even higher. What about pulsing high voltage capacitors to the power coils? I need to buy a DC power supply I guess, what rating do you recommend me to buy? as they differ in price according to their amp ratings.

BTW, I have to go to the military training, which is mandatory in my country . So sorry if I may not be able to respond in the coming days. I'll be back in two months.

Good luck with your experiments everyone

Elias

Elias,

Actually, the position of your hall device is not strange at all. In order to produce the highest speed, the triggering must be advanced from the position for lower speed operation. It's like the spark plug in your car engine firing before top-dead-center.

Best wishes to you during your military training. You're an excellent experimenter and thinker, Elias, and we all appreciate your contributions to these forums. We look forward to your return in two months!

Peter

[elias]

Higher Voltage

Elias,

Motor lookin' good! From the spacing of your rotor width and the stator width, it looks like an ON TIME of between 40 and 45 degrees will be close to optimum. Start with the front lip of the rotor just at the front lip of the stator. The motor should only turn in one direction and "self-start" only when the rotor is in the ON window.

Currently you are running the motor on 13.2 watts, which is about 1/57th of a horse power. What are you doing with the recovered energy?

The drawback of using the Hall Effect detector is that they are voltage limited to about 24 volts. If you want to run the motor faster by applying more voltage, you may have to alter your circuit a bit.

Excellent work so far!!!

Peter

Peter,

I moved the hall switch from the center top to the right and to the left, to find out the place at which the highest RPM is acheived and I found out that the highest speed happens a bit to the right, where the rotor tends to move backwards initially, which seems so odd. Anyway, I am charging a battery with a diode, at the moment with the collapsed. My circuit enables me to use a different voltage for the power coil from the voltage required for the hall effect device, so I can do this easily. But what voltage is good for this purpose? I mean the back spikes are hitting so hardly at the moment, and it would make the back spikes go even higher. What about pulsing high voltage capacitors to the power coils? I need to buy a DC power supply I guess, what rating do you recommend me to buy? as they differ in price according to their amp ratings.

BTW, I have to go to the military training, which is mandatory in my country . So sorry if I may not be able to respond in the coming days. I'll be back in two months.

Good luck with your experiments everyone

Elias

[elias]

Actually,my probleme is:I used capacitors bank to supply my setup.
And i want to know how to reduce the current from this bank!!!!
If you read previously,it's not an (off the shelf motor).
I'm working on 2 attraction motor,one simular as the one you showed on the
ROTARY ATTRACTION MOTOR,the otther one is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.
On the second one ,i use steel bar place into a PVC pipe,who is install on a
rod with ball bearing.
On the second one,I DON'T use you're switching mecanisem.Insted i used
contact on the PVC pipe who made contact with 2 contact with the bank
capacitor. I used 3=200 volts by 300 uf capacitors..
I think there too much VOLTS comming from the bank capacitors....
I just want to find a way to reduce the current comming from that bank.
If you can help me where to find the informations about this,i woul'd be
pleased.
My other motor is almost done and is going pretty well.
I'm verry happy to being part of this site and i want to contribute as i can
to make some discovery(sometimes it's not what we intend to discover)
or being a part of the guy"s that start thinking by themself.
Thank's for you're attention to my problem...


ALAIN

Alain,

I suppose that you can control the current from your capacitor bank by using a transistor instead of a commutator. Just adjust the base resistor to adjust the current drawn from the capacitor bank, just as Bedini's SSG circuit, you can use your commutator now for triggering the transistor, as you do with a reed switch. It seems that you are trying to pulse high voltage capacitors to make the attraction phase work.

Wish you luck!
Elias

[erfinder]

Question about metal for laminates

Peter,

For my first post I would like ask you a very important question. I am finalizing my construction plans for an electric motor which is very closely related to your attraction motor. I have found that Silicon steel is very hard to come by, and when one can get it, after it has been properly prepared individuals of limited means cannot afford it. My question is, what over the counter sheet steel grade is best suited for these types of devices. High permeability and almost zero retentivity. Thanking you in advance.

Please forgive me if this was posted in the wrong area.


P.S.

I was looking forward to meeting you in Heidelberg Germany November 2006 at the 150 Tesla Conference. I was the guest of Walter Baumgartner. Jeanne Manning came in your place, one day I hope to meet you.


Regards

[lighty]

I was gessing that asking a SIMPLE QUESTION with that much people knowing so much stuff about electronics was easy.

It would probably be easier if you posted any kind of detailed description or schematic of your setup. It's simply that your descriptions were too vague.

[Aaron]

schematic picture can help us

Hi Alain,

Can you post a picture of a schematic of your electronics?

[Peter Lindemann]

Need More Info

Hi Peter!!
My name(i'm tired to being known as an entity) is Alain.
I am working on a Rotary attraction motor at this time and i'm stock with
a problem.
I dont use an of the shelf motor.Actualy i used the same setup as KT services
used for is Bedini SG but,insted of magnets i have placed irons bars on it.
The stator is place outside the PVC pipe.I have placed a contact comutater
on the pvc pipe(a small strip of copper who cover 25 degre of the rotation)
who made contact with 2 outside bearing.The bearings ares coated with a
insulation and a piece of copper pipe over it.I'm feeding the system with 2 step motors and have a bank of 3=200 volts and 300 uf.
My problem is:it's start nicely buth,the higher the rpm,i'm toasting the contact and it smell toasty..
How could i reduce the voltage from the capacitor bank???
It's been a whole week and i can't solve the problem by myself..
BY now it seem to produce a good amount of torque,but,i can't measure the
current it gives back because it's not running long enough.
If you already talk about it previusly!!!! Ignore that post..
I will dig al the treads and find it somewhere...

MY gratitude!!!ALAIN alias peper10

Alain,

Thanks for joining the group, and for using your real name. From your written description, I really can't understand what your set-up is, or what your problem is. If you don't want to post your schematic and pictures of your unit, that's fine. But without that kind of specific information about your model, there is no way I have anything to comment on.

I'd love to help you, but I'm not going to guess about a fix to a set-up that I know nothing about. Sorry.

Good luck with figuring it out.

Peter

[Jetijs]

Hi peper10,
can you post any pictures of your setup? How wide is the air gap between your stator and rotor iron bars?
Thanks,
Jetijs

[Peter Lindemann]

Timing

Hi,

Thanks Mart for your video on cleaning the bearings,

Peter, I ran it with the timing as seen on the picture, with the magnets on the commutator. It ran up to 2500 RPM, with reasonable torque, while running on 24 volts and 550 mA. What is the perfect on time for the attraction phase? I currently have an on time of the magnet width+Hall effect width.

Thanks

Elias,

Motor lookin' good! From the spacing of your rotor width and the stator width, it looks like an ON TIME of between 40 and 45 degrees will be close to optimum. Start with the front lip of the rotor just at the front lip of the stator. The motor should only turn in one direction and "self-start" only when the rotor is in the ON window.

Currently you are running the motor on 13.2 watts, which is about 1/57th of a horse power. What are you doing with the recovered energy?

The drawback of using the Hall Effect detector is that they are voltage limited to about 24 volts. If you want to run the motor faster by applying more voltage, you may have to alter your circuit a bit.

Excellent work so far!!!

Peter

[elias]

The motor works good

Hi,

Thanks Mart for your video on cleaning the bearings,

Peter, I ran it with the timing as seen on the picture, with the magnets on the commutator. It ran upto 2500 RPM, with reasonable torque, while running on 24 volts and 550 mA. What is the perfect on time for the attraction phase? I currently have an on time of the magnet width+Hall effect width.

Thanks