Electric Motor Secrets

[elias]

Peter,

Thanks,
I placed my magnets on my commutator, because I am familiar with hall devices, and I got some in home. I ran it on 18 volts drawing 250mA, and it ran around 2000 RPM, with reasonable torque, although I could stop it by my hand. As I moved my hall sensor, I found the spot at which the maximum RPM was achieved, and I found out that the maximum RPM occurred at an unexpected spot, where the rotor tends to move backwards initially, so you are right I should have cut off two more segments to get better performance. I suppose the collapsed spike was causing the rotor decrease in speed as I moved the hall sensor to a position where the rotor starts moving in forward direction. So maybe the back spike needs more space to deliver forward action instead of backward.

The collapsed spike was rather noisy when it was disconnected from the charging battery and slowed the rotor down pretty much.

I'll cut off two more segments tomorrow, and keep you informed about my progress.

Best Regards
Elias

[elias]

You're work is done pretty good..
Do you have pics from the stator winding???
Actualy i'm working on that to and i have found an old motor with a 12 awg
gage,i think!!!! When it comes to put it inside the stator,i just can put 6
winding inside the slots.
If you have pics from the inside of you're motor i would appreciate!!!
And again NICE WORK
peper10

I have put some pictures on my previous posts, I'll give some pictures after I cut my rotor as Peter has mentioned. Thanks for your encouragement.

[elias]

changing the bearings

Peter,

I shaved my rotor as you suggested, and now I have four segments on each side, as seen in the picture. The only problem I have now is that one of the bearings has so much friction to it, and I suppose it might be better to change it. Since I have never done this before, I need some advice about doing so, without damaging my rotor, because it seems fixed so tightly to the shaft.

Thanks

[theremart]

RE: bearing

Peter,

I shaved my rotor as you suggested, and now I have four segments on each side, as seen in the picture. The only problem I have now is that one of the bearings has so much friction to it, and I suppose it might be better to change it. Since I have never done this before, I need some advice about doing so, without damaging my rotor, because it seems fixed so tightly to the shaft.

Thanks

I have found that that rubber center of the bearing comes out with a blade. You can then use carb cleaner or gasoline to get the gunk out of the bearing then... You can fill it about 2/3 full of good grease ( do not fill it all the way or you cause more friction and problems ) There is a youtube video for cleaning skateboard bearings.

Cleaning bearings
YouTube - How to clean bearings


Compare ceramic bearings to standard:
YouTube - Ceramic Bearings vs. ABEC 7's

[Peter Lindemann]

Cleaning the Bearings

Peter,

I shaved my rotor as you suggested, and now I have four segments on each side, as seen in the picture. The only problem I have now is that one of the bearings has so much friction to it, and I suppose it might be better to change it. Since I have never done this before, I need some advice about doing so, without damaging my rotor, because it seems fixed so tightly to the shaft.

Thanks

Elias,

I agree with Mart. Just buy a can of Engine De-Greaser spray, pop off one of the side seals and spray out the bearing while turning it. The goal is not to remove all of the grease, but just to thin it out a bit. Then DON'T add anymore new grease. If there is no real damage to the bearings, then they should run smooth and easy after this operation. If there are no further friction points, then just pop the side seal back on and you're good to go! Try this first.

Rotor looks great!

Peter

[elias]

The motor works good

Hi,

Thanks Mart for your video on cleaning the bearings,

Peter, I ran it with the timing as seen on the picture, with the magnets on the commutator. It ran upto 2500 RPM, with reasonable torque, while running on 24 volts and 550 mA. What is the perfect on time for the attraction phase? I currently have an on time of the magnet width+Hall effect width.

Thanks

[Peter Lindemann]

Timing

Hi,

Thanks Mart for your video on cleaning the bearings,

Peter, I ran it with the timing as seen on the picture, with the magnets on the commutator. It ran up to 2500 RPM, with reasonable torque, while running on 24 volts and 550 mA. What is the perfect on time for the attraction phase? I currently have an on time of the magnet width+Hall effect width.

Thanks

Elias,

Motor lookin' good! From the spacing of your rotor width and the stator width, it looks like an ON TIME of between 40 and 45 degrees will be close to optimum. Start with the front lip of the rotor just at the front lip of the stator. The motor should only turn in one direction and "self-start" only when the rotor is in the ON window.

Currently you are running the motor on 13.2 watts, which is about 1/57th of a horse power. What are you doing with the recovered energy?

The drawback of using the Hall Effect detector is that they are voltage limited to about 24 volts. If you want to run the motor faster by applying more voltage, you may have to alter your circuit a bit.

Excellent work so far!!!

Peter

[Jetijs]

Hi peper10,
can you post any pictures of your setup? How wide is the air gap between your stator and rotor iron bars?
Thanks,
Jetijs

[Peter Lindemann]

Need More Info

Hi Peter!!
My name(i'm tired to being known as an entity) is Alain.
I am working on a Rotary attraction motor at this time and i'm stock with
a problem.
I dont use an of the shelf motor.Actualy i used the same setup as KT services
used for is Bedini SG but,insted of magnets i have placed irons bars on it.
The stator is place outside the PVC pipe.I have placed a contact comutater
on the pvc pipe(a small strip of copper who cover 25 degre of the rotation)
who made contact with 2 outside bearing.The bearings ares coated with a
insulation and a piece of copper pipe over it.I'm feeding the system with 2 step motors and have a bank of 3=200 volts and 300 uf.
My problem is:it's start nicely buth,the higher the rpm,i'm toasting the contact and it smell toasty..
How could i reduce the voltage from the capacitor bank???
It's been a whole week and i can't solve the problem by myself..
BY now it seem to produce a good amount of torque,but,i can't measure the
current it gives back because it's not running long enough.
If you already talk about it previusly!!!! Ignore that post..
I will dig al the treads and find it somewhere...

MY gratitude!!!ALAIN alias peper10

Alain,

Thanks for joining the group, and for using your real name. From your written description, I really can't understand what your set-up is, or what your problem is. If you don't want to post your schematic and pictures of your unit, that's fine. But without that kind of specific information about your model, there is no way I have anything to comment on.

I'd love to help you, but I'm not going to guess about a fix to a set-up that I know nothing about. Sorry.

Good luck with figuring it out.

Peter

[Aaron]

schematic picture can help us

Hi Alain,

Can you post a picture of a schematic of your electronics?

[lighty]

I was gessing that asking a SIMPLE QUESTION with that much people knowing so much stuff about electronics was easy.

It would probably be easier if you posted any kind of detailed description or schematic of your setup. It's simply that your descriptions were too vague.

[erfinder]

Question about metal for laminates

Peter,

For my first post I would like ask you a very important question. I am finalizing my construction plans for an electric motor which is very closely related to your attraction motor. I have found that Silicon steel is very hard to come by, and when one can get it, after it has been properly prepared individuals of limited means cannot afford it. My question is, what over the counter sheet steel grade is best suited for these types of devices. High permeability and almost zero retentivity. Thanking you in advance.

Please forgive me if this was posted in the wrong area.


P.S.

I was looking forward to meeting you in Heidelberg Germany November 2006 at the 150 Tesla Conference. I was the guest of Walter Baumgartner. Jeanne Manning came in your place, one day I hope to meet you.


Regards

[elias]

Actually,my probleme is:I used capacitors bank to supply my setup.
And i want to know how to reduce the current from this bank!!!!
If you read previously,it's not an (off the shelf motor).
I'm working on 2 attraction motor,one simular as the one you showed on the
ROTARY ATTRACTION MOTOR,the otther one is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.
On the second one ,i use steel bar place into a PVC pipe,who is install on a
rod with ball bearing.
On the second one,I DON'T use you're switching mecanisem.Insted i used
contact on the PVC pipe who made contact with 2 contact with the bank
capacitor. I used 3=200 volts by 300 uf capacitors..
I think there too much VOLTS comming from the bank capacitors....
I just want to find a way to reduce the current comming from that bank.
If you can help me where to find the informations about this,i woul'd be
pleased.
My other motor is almost done and is going pretty well.
I'm verry happy to being part of this site and i want to contribute as i can
to make some discovery(sometimes it's not what we intend to discover)
or being a part of the guy"s that start thinking by themself.
Thank's for you're attention to my problem...


ALAIN

Alain,

I suppose that you can control the current from your capacitor bank by using a transistor instead of a commutator. Just adjust the base resistor to adjust the current drawn from the capacitor bank, just as Bedini's SSG circuit, you can use your commutator now for triggering the transistor, as you do with a reed switch. It seems that you are trying to pulse high voltage capacitors to make the attraction phase work.

Wish you luck!
Elias

[elias]

Higher Voltage

Elias,

Motor lookin' good! From the spacing of your rotor width and the stator width, it looks like an ON TIME of between 40 and 45 degrees will be close to optimum. Start with the front lip of the rotor just at the front lip of the stator. The motor should only turn in one direction and "self-start" only when the rotor is in the ON window.

Currently you are running the motor on 13.2 watts, which is about 1/57th of a horse power. What are you doing with the recovered energy?

The drawback of using the Hall Effect detector is that they are voltage limited to about 24 volts. If you want to run the motor faster by applying more voltage, you may have to alter your circuit a bit.

Excellent work so far!!!

Peter

Peter,

I moved the hall switch from the center top to the right and to the left, to find out the place at which the highest RPM is acheived and I found out that the highest speed happens a bit to the right, where the rotor tends to move backwards initially, which seems so odd. Anyway, I am charging a battery with a diode, at the moment with the collapsed. My circuit enables me to use a different voltage for the power coil from the voltage required for the hall effect device, so I can do this easily. But what voltage is good for this purpose? I mean the back spikes are hitting so hardly at the moment, and it would make the back spikes go even higher. What about pulsing high voltage capacitors to the power coils? I need to buy a DC power supply I guess, what rating do you recommend me to buy? as they differ in price according to their amp ratings.

BTW, I have to go to the military training, which is mandatory in my country . So sorry if I may not be able to respond in the coming days. I'll be back in two months.

Good luck with your experiments everyone

Elias

[Peter Lindemann]

Advanced Timing

Peter,

I moved the hall switch from the center top to the right and to the left, to find out the place at which the highest RPM is acheived and I found out that the highest speed happens a bit to the right, where the rotor tends to move backwards initially, which seems so odd. Anyway, I am charging a battery with a diode, at the moment with the collapsed. My circuit enables me to use a different voltage for the power coil from the voltage required for the hall effect device, so I can do this easily. But what voltage is good for this purpose? I mean the back spikes are hitting so hardly at the moment, and it would make the back spikes go even higher. What about pulsing high voltage capacitors to the power coils? I need to buy a DC power supply I guess, what rating do you recommend me to buy? as they differ in price according to their amp ratings.

BTW, I have to go to the military training, which is mandatory in my country . So sorry if I may not be able to respond in the coming days. I'll be back in two months.

Good luck with your experiments everyone

Elias

Elias,

Actually, the position of your hall device is not strange at all. In order to produce the highest speed, the triggering must be advanced from the position for lower speed operation. It's like the spark plug in your car engine firing before top-dead-center.

Best wishes to you during your military training. You're an excellent experimenter and thinker, Elias, and we all appreciate your contributions to these forums. We look forward to your return in two months!

Peter