Electric Motor Secrets

[Jetijs]

Here's a bigger picture:

http://www.atv-semapp.dk/arr2006/061121_plast-innova/images/X020%5B1%5D_r.jpg

The stator/rotor pieces look indeed like my motor. Such a motor would be the perfect for what we need, but unfortunately we do not know how small the air gap is between stator and rotor. If it is too big, than there is no point in buying them for our needs.

[nali2001]

Motor

In fact the Dyson motor is very much like yours:
See attached picture.

[nali2001]

Motor

Yes this could very well be. Especially for the rotor since that solid steel will not loose it magnetic alignment very fast - to say the least. But the amp draw is (in my opinion) due to the voltage ruling over the ohmic resistance of the coil.

Side note: You know these expensive Dyson vacuum cleansers? Well some types have switched reluctance motors in them.
MOTORS, FANS & BLOWERS: New Market: New Motor - Archives - Appliance Design

Regards,
Steven

[Jetijs]

Steven,
Great video!
Couldn't it be that your stator core poles are too close together? Maybe this doesn't allow the motor to "breathe" between pulses, just as Peter mentioned.
Just a thought

[nali2001]

Hi there Jetijs / All.

Well here is another video of my version. And for the record, please note that I am not by any stretch some expert in motor building or electronics. Yes I build some stuff , read some stuff and think to know some stuff. But don't let any (false) idea your talking to some know it all professor stop you from commenting whatever it is. Since I do not know it all, not even much that is. So together we might some day know it all. But I appreciate the kind words.
Anyway here it is. (Nice acceleration he?)
http://www.krystyna.nl/Machine/MotorRun001.wmv

Kind regards,
Steven

[Jetijs]

Thanks Steven
Yes, when I run my motor only with the commutator and no 555 pulsing, there was a bigger amp draw at the beginning of the rotation and it slowly decreased as the speed increased, but my amp draw was nowhere nearly as big as I see in your video, maybe max 3A when I stopped the rotor completely in the firing position. I did not make any comments on your video as I simply had nothing to say. You are obviously more experienced in electronics than me so I can't suggest anything. I would rather like to hear Peter's opinion about your video. I keep all your videos on my hard drive - good stuff, keep them coming
Thanks,
Jetijs

[nali2001]

Motor and more

Jetijs once again I have to say you did a very good job, this is probably as good as it gets, I mean custom lamination, cnc machined parts. Not even 1 out of 1000 experimenters in this field bother to get to that level. So you do very well. And man.... I also gotta have a cnc machine! Making these end plates with my conventional mill will be a monster job to get right. Sorry to see you cracked the plate with the resin. Could have many reasons, resin curing heat, chemical attack or just heat expansion - or all.

One thing I would like to ask you since there were no real reactions to my motor post, what happens to your amp draw when you mechanically load the motor? I have seen your previous motor test on youtube again and you seem to have a fair rpm, but do you get the same amp increase when you load the rotor, as I have?

Update on my motor part: I adjusted the timing and pulse length and now the thing had a 25% orso speed increase and the amp draw at idle dropped from 2.8 to 1.1. Still at 24v. And when the back spike is somewhat recovered you notice a speed increase and amp decrease. Still massive amp draw on mechanical load.

Kind regards,
Steven

[Jetijs]

Schpankme,
I will go with the acrylic as long as I can, if it turns out to be not suitable for our purposes, then we'll see
A little update. I tried to glue in those bolts. I used epoxy resin for fieberglass gluing for this, at first everything seemed fine, but when the resin cured some cracks in the acrylic appeared. This might be due to chemical influence of the resin or by mechanical stress that forms when the resin shrinks in the curing process. Here are pictures:





although I was not able to break this plate even with my whole wight pressed on that weak spots, I decided to make new and better plates:



This time I increased the width of these weak spots and made the bigger bolt holes in the shape of hexagon so that a bolt fits right in and can not rotate. This way I wont need any glue at all
Thanks,
Jetijs

[Schpankme]

Acrylic is brather brittle. I will also get some more of this material so I can machine new and improved end plates, if these will break. - Jetijs

Jetijs et al,

It would be nice, if we could get Delrin (engineering plastic) in clear, without the white pigment added!

- Schpankme

[theremart]

RE: No off the shelf motor.

Ok, thank you for your candid response.

I must admit that I really want the motor that you have shown in this video. I have built about 4 SSG energizers and I keep thinking I want to take advantage of the mechanical energy. Your method, seems to fill the bill, of what I am working toward extracting the energy from the back EMF.

Since there is not an off the shelf method, then does one take the coil of the motor, and then have a machine shop create a rotor?

I guess one would have to custom make the motor, I am now hoping that one could buy a coil of a motor and then just have the rotor machined.

I see the diagram on your web site, and I would like to replicate, but I wanted to first find the easiest path between me and a completed functioning motor. So far it seems that is to plan to steal Jetijs motor when he is not looking after it is done. ( hope he does not read all the posts here ) he he.

Thanks again for sharing your wise insights.

Mart

Dear Theremart,

There is no "off-the-shelf" motor that can run on the circuit used in the video, without modifying the rotor. The motor with the most suitable physical structure, that is sold on the market today, is the Switched Reluctance Motor. These motors are VERY expensive and the complex rotor/stator interactions would require extensive changes to the electronic switching to make work. So, one way or the other, major modifications have to be made to any motor that you can buy, to make it work like the motor in the video.

If you want to experiment with "off-the-shelf" motors, the Roto-Verter is a good place to start.

Good luck with your experiments,

Peter

[Aaron]

Electric Motor Secrets Recommendation

Hi everyone,

I get a handful of private messages asking me about the concepts in this thread. If you're new to this thread, I would highly recommend reading the entire thing from the beginning. It will probably take more than a few hours but you'll have the overall schema down pretty good.

Also, please watch these videos in this order:

YouTube - Bob Teal Magnipulsion - Missing Interview Surfaces
YouTube - Lindemann Rotary Attraction Motor
YouTube - Lindemann Rotary Attraction Motor 2a
YouTube - Lindemann Rotary Attraction Motor 2b

Get Peter's DVD here: Electric Motor Secrets

[Peter Lindemann]

The Simple Answer

I saw this video on youtube by Peter Lindemann ....

Lindemann Rotary Attraction Motor 2b
YouTube - Lindemann Rotary Attraction Motor 2b

And I have the video "Electric motor secrets"

My question is, is there a motor off the shelf that I can take and setup this circuit?


-----

Also, if I was to go to 460V could I not also use the Roto Verter with this combined, and is there an off the shelf motor that would do this.

Thanks!

Dear Theremart,

There is no "off-the-shelf" motor that can run on the circuit used in the video, without modifying the rotor. The motor with the most suitable physical structure, that is sold on the market today, is the Switched Reluctance Motor. These motors are VERY expensive and the complex rotor/stator interactions would require extensive changes to the electronic switching to make work. So, one way or the other, major modifications have to be made to any motor that you can buy, to make it work like the motor in the video.

If you want to experiment with "off-the-shelf" motors, the Roto-Verter is a good place to start.

Good luck with your experiments,

Peter

[Jetijs]

Little update. I finished the outer stator holding plates from acrylic. Since I use this 15mm thick material, this allows me to use those double ball bearings which are a little bit bigger in diameter and thicker, so I made the center hole on these plates a little bigger. Looks good, but I am not sure if this material in such dimensions will hold all the load and vibration and not break. Acrylic is brather brittle. Here are some pictures:







I think I will go with this and see how it performs. I will also get some more of this material so I can machine new and improved end plates, if these will break.
Thank you,
Jetijs

[theremart]

Kool stuff

Great work Jetijs!

I am looking forward to seeing the results of your slavery to the cause!

Mart

[Jetijs]

Hi all.
Today I made both stator holding plates. They are made form a 15mm thick acrylic, so the CAD drawing had to be changed. This thick material allows about 13mm wide space for the coils, so I wont need to make a deeper section in the second holding plates. It will be hard to source a 140x140mm and 8-12mm thick aluminum plate, so I will try to make the outer stator holding plates out of the same 15mm thick acrylic. Acrylic is very easy and fast to machine, I guess that is why John Bedini uses it on most of his models, but it is also a rather soft material so it wont be wise to make these threads in the outer stator holding plates that I need for the small aluminum bearing holding plate. So I thought that instead of making threads in the acrylic, I will make two holes for each bearing holder bolts. One hole will be 6mm in diameter and go through all the material thickness and the other hole will be bigger and about 5-6mm deep. Both holes will be on one axis, so I will be able simply to insert a 6mm diameter bolt in those holes and fill the remaining space with epoxy resin used for fiberglass gluing. Here is a picture that shows what I mean:



And here's how it looks from the other side:



The hole on the middle of that acrylic plate is about 2mm bigger in diameter than the diameter of the bearing. The small aluminum bearing holding plates will be the only things, that will hold those bearings. The four smaller holes in that bearing holder are made a little bit bigger than the bolts in the acrylic, this will allow to adjust the rotor position in the stator about 1,5mm to each side. I made the plate non transparent, because two transparent plates together made the whole thing harder to understand. Here's another picture:


So far so good
Thanks,
Jetijs