Electric Motor Secrets

[theremart]

Question... about Electric motor secrets..

I saw this video on youtube by Peter Lindemann ....

Lindemann Rotary Attraction Motor 2b
YouTube - Lindemann Rotary Attraction Motor 2b

And I have the video "Electric motor secrets"

My question is, is there a motor off the shelf that I can take and setup this circuit?


-----

Also, if I was to go to 460V could I not also use the Roto Verter with this combined, and is there an off the shelf motor that would do this.

Thanks!

[Jetijs]

George,
I am glad that I am an inspiration for someone. After all, we all here have the same goals and I am happy If I can contribute to all this. I wish you the best luck in your experiments.
Thank you!

BTW, Peter, do you have any comments on Stevens video?
Jetijs

Jetjis

Fantastic job! I have seen many of your video's on You Tube and they always inspire me to do a better job scientifically on my experiments. I will post some projects online when I get to a place where I am comfortable doing so. Also, I am always faced with spending money on a quality camera for videos or ordering things I need for my projects. The projects always seem to win. However, you have made a great point about being alone in these endevours and seeing others videos does give that extra boost we need to keep going. This is a new age of instant collaboration among experimentors from all walks of life. They don't teach this stuff in schools anymore. We are the protectors of a lost art.

Keep up the great work

George Mielcarek

[Jetijs]

Thanks guys,
your words are really encouraging, because Peter is right about that this is hard and sometimes boring. It may look exciting, but in fact it is not most of the time I post these pictures because I love to see pictures form other members with their projects. Also this way I can better describe what I mean and keep you updated of my progress. This way someone can point something out if I am doing something wrong or make suggestions how to improve something.
So here are some new pictures of my stator holding plate:







I found a thicker plexiglass sheet, this one is 15mm thick. This way I can get about 13mm wide space for the coil windings. There are some minor mistakes I have to take care of, but you got the idea.
Thanks guys, you rock!

Jetijs

[elias]

Wow!

Jetijs, Just posted to say your motor seems to be so fantastic.

[Peter Lindemann]

Great Work

Jetijs,

Excellent gluing job. There is no substitute for patient, boring, tedious, labor! People who only watch these forums think this is exciting stuff. But on the bench, it is just unglamorous, long hours of hard work!

Your dedication to detail, your skill with CAD, and your excellent photographic documentation are an inspiration to people all over the world.

Thanks for "blazing the trail" and showing everybody else what it takes to succeed.



Peter

[Schpankme]

Here are some pictures of my stator and rotor before gluing - Jetijs

Fantastic pictures, excellent workmanship; thank you for sharing.

- Schpankme

[Jetijs]

Steven, interesting results and great video BTW
Here are some pictures of my stator and rotor before gluing:



And after the gluing procedure:



Looks fine, I doubt that there is a way of gluing the plates together more precise, because the laser cuts are not as precise as you think. The epoxy took about two days for curing because I was afraid that I may not put the plates together as fast as needed (it took about 1 hour) and I used way too less hardener. But it is fine now.
Thanks,
Jetijs

[nali2001]

http://www.krystyna.nl/Machine/MotorRun001.wmv

Regards,
Steven

[Peter Lindemann]

Hildenbrand

Hi there Schpankme,
I have seen your questions on overunity.com as well.
The motor you have drawn can not work. Since the permanent magnets will just couple together and stay that way. The two magnets in your design should be repulse to each other. So flip one around.

You must understand that the rotor should have a usable cross section that is equal or somewhat more then the cross section of your two coil/cores and magnets together. This is why Hildenbrand said that the rotor did oversaturate because he did not make his rotor big enough (that is, big it enough cross section accommodate all the fields at one time).

And when I look at your motor I see that the finger of the rotor is only wide enough to accommodate the flux of one coil/core and one magnet. So you need to increase the rotor finger width twice as wide as it is now.

In the attached picture you see a motor with the proportions about right. Remember to give a little overhead, and so have the rotor a little wider. And keep the coil/cores about the same cross section as the magnets. Just like the image.

Regards,
Steven

Hey Guys,

Hildenbrand has a great machine, but this form is not about his designs. Please start a new thread if this is what you wish to discuss.

Thanks,

Peter

[nali2001]

Motor

Hi there Schpankme,
I have seen your questions on overunity.com as well.
The motor you have drawn can not work. Since the permanent magnets will just couple together and stay that way. The two magnets in your design should be repulse to each other. So flip one around.

You must understand that the rotor should have a usable cross section that is equal or somewhat more then the cross section of your two coil/cores and magnets together. This is why Hildenbrand said that the rotor did oversaturate because he did not make his rotor big enough (that is, big it enough cross section accommodate all the fields at one time).

And when I look at your motor I see that the finger of the rotor is only wide enough to accommodate the flux of one coil/core and one magnet. So you need to increase the rotor finger width twice as wide as it is now.

In the attached picture you see a motor with the proportions about right. Remember to give a little overhead, and so have the rotor a little wider. And keep the coil/cores about the same cross section as the magnets. Just like the image.

Regards,
Steven

[Peter Lindemann]

Similarities

Steven,

Many thanks for the picture; my thoughts were away to reduce the size of the valve.

The next question would be saturation of the rotor; on a dual valve, 22 inch DIA motor, with 3 inch DIA shaft. The picture attached shows a 10 inch rotor and 6 inch magnets. The core is spec'd at 3 turns of #4 wire (0.39 O.D.) 420 feet.

- Schpankme

Schpankme and Steven,

I am more than happy to let you guys continue with this discussion, though it is a bit off-topic. The use of permanent magnets in these type of configurations is very similar to Flynn's Parallel Path technology, and is known to be useful for increasing torque. It does not increase efficiency, however, since it takes more power to push the PM field out of the core with the coil in the first place. You pay for doing the work, one way or the other. If you want to switch fast, you need more voltage to establish the current flow. If you don't apply more voltage, the rise-time of the current is very slow because of the increased inductance.

The test video is a little misleading, since it only shows the "steady state" current, and not the start surge and total power required to run the coil in both cases. It allows the physical structures to be a little smaller for the power, but does not raise the COP of the system by much. For lifting cars up at the end of a crane, this can definitely save energy, since twice the field strength can be created for half the power.

These ideas CAN be incorporated into the magnetic attraction motor designs, but they make field switching more complicated, and require more input power to do it.

Schpankme, if you are interested in building a model experimental motor, I recommend you start with something smaller than 22 inches in diameter, in case some aspects of your design don't work quite the way you intend. Just a suggestion.

Peter

[Schpankme]

Flux Path

... you don't want a coil over a magnet ...

Steven,

Many thanks for the picture; my thoughts were away to reduce the size of the valve.

The next question would be saturation of the rotor; on a dual valve, 22 inch DIA motor, with 3 inch DIA shaft. The picture attached shows a 10 inch rotor and 6 inch magnets. The core is spec'd at 3 turns of #4 wire (0.39 O.D.) 420 feet.

- Schpankme

[nali2001]

Core

Hi there Schpankme,
No since its field will just latch onto the secondary C core at the moment when gets close to it. And besides that you don't want a coil over a magnet since the permanent magnet is just that, 'permanent' and you are not supposed to enforcese a magnetic field directly upon its structure, if you do you can/will waste the magnet.

So as in the video what you want the flux from the magnet to be 'steered' to add to the overall strength of the coil's initial input field. What you want other words is that the coil on the main core section will 'saturate' that core section onto it is wound. So when that happens the flux from the magnet must seek another 'path of least resistance' and will jump the air gap (paper) and will go trough the secondary core. So this will add to the magnetic field of the coil. And when the coil is turned off, the field of the magnet will return again to the primary core as a preferred path of least resistance. So the secondary core is again free to move.

See the attached picture.
Steven

[Schpankme]

o.u right here.
http://www.krystyna.nl/Machine/MagnetExtraPower.wmv

Steven,

Another fantastic video, thank you.

- question - can the same "Effect" be achieved if the "magnet" was the "core" of the Coil ?

- Schpankme