Future Energy hydroxy cell

[Farrah Day]

Yet those at the claims. That PSI, for whichever gas they are making. And that amount to be sufficient for a car to run off. Not sure it's the very same gas still then.
If ions are involved, the word "closed system" may need to be specified. When are these supposed to be introduced, and from which source?

Are they using an electrolyte? I'm not sure, but either way there are ions in the water, if not just hydroxyl and hydrogen ions. They don't get introduced as such, they are always there, though more may get induced.

They can only be making oxygen and hydrogen if there's only water in the wfc.

[Farrah Day]

55ltrs/min and 60psi, if it was true you would be riding in your own personalised metal coffin.

Get real, you only have to think about the amount of HHO to run a car, IF you could make it that fast the BIGGEST problem anyone would have is security, nearly 1ltr a secound and 60psi, sorry can't be done and be safe at the same time.

Mike

I'm inclined to agree Mike, but then I'm always sceptical about unsubstantiated claims and the people that make them, and usually get beat-up on because of my 'naysaying' and negativity. Just thought I'd give this a fair chance to play-out while waiting for the true facts come to light.

[Cloxxki]

Yet those at the claims. That PSI, for whichever gas they are making. And that amount to be sufficient for a car to run off. Not sure it's the very same gas still then.
If ions are involved, the word "closed system" may need to be specified. When are these supposed to be introduced, and from which source?

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Boom

55ltrs/min and 60psi, if it was true you would be riding in your own personalised metal coffin.

Get real, you only have to think about the amount of HHO to run a car, IF you could make it that fast the BIGGEST problem anyone would have is security, nearly 1ltr a secound and 60psi, sorry can't be done and be safe at the same time.

Mike

[Farrah Day]

Cloxxki, don't get me wrong here, I'd love these guys to be the real deal, it's just we all know from past experience that there are a lot of conmen and a lot of bull****ters out there.

Until more details are disclosed, we can only go on what we've been told, and the figures that have been put forward so far.

However, at 80 amps, this is clearly not employing the Meyer high voltage/low current principle. And 80 amps at around 12 volts is hovering around the 1000 watt mark, so the water would get hot very quickly.

It would be overunity. Consider this:

If the unit was run from a battery and the resulting gases fed to a small generator which then produced enough power to keep the battery topped up and the process running, then this would be a closed system. For this system to run continually would mean that it suffered no losses, it would be at least at unity. However, not only is this said to be happening by Freddie, but it's also providing enough energy to drive a 1/2 ton (or more) vehicle.

So the question is, where are the energy gains made? Because trust me there would have to be a lot of energy gained over what was input for this to work as claimed.

There may well be something we're yet to understand about common duct electrolyser gases and the way they behave, but even this is asking a great deal.

One thing for sure, the strain on the alternator must be considerable.

[Cloxxki]

Thanks for the response Farrah Day.

I am still unsure about over unity myself here. If a process yet to be understood creates for a "natural" flow of ions from an endless source to an otherwise closed system, it seems more like harvesting than over unity.

If they'd make more (plain) HHO gas than should be possible according to Faraday for their given input power, that would be over unity for sure, as it would allow a sufficiently efficient motor/generator to do it all over again, with load. You start with water, and end with water.
If indeed they're not making plain HHO as we know it, then possibly Faraday's limitation don't apply, thus a new "unity" threshold needs to be set for the amount of energy a unit of the gas (being created from more than the water tank's water and electrolyte along) can put out, or the amount of this gas can be created from a Kwh of power.
I'm not a proper researcher so don't listen to me. But if these guys are for real, we'll just have to re-write history books and convert al our hydrocarbon engines to feature such water processors/oin collectors, whatever it may be that makes it work.

I so want to believe this, but for Open Source, the wording seems a bit too cryptic. I'm torn. When it proves real, I'll throw in my non-tech capabilities to promote this.

[Farrah Day]

So which do you want then? Him to verify this or not? Why say to wait for verification of the claims then say they need the verifying to verify the claims before he is to verify it. WTF....

WTF indeed.

I'm not sure what your problem is, or what you're struggling to understand here, but Rick is talking about replication, which would come after independent verification from a reliable and creditable source. Verification that the claims are legitimate has to come first.

How can Rick or anyone else verify claims if there are not enough details yet disclosed to actually replicate... think before you post and make yourself look stupid!

Sure was a lot of amps, 80 amps when he was running down the road? The valve feeding the cell was closed, it was a manual valve. So there was a vacuum in the cell? A 3/8 or 1/2 inch line running from the cell to gauge in vehicle, then out to the dryer, then to fuel rail. say 5 meters of line, and he states: 55 LPM . That line would charge to 60 psi in seconds. correct? 60-85 psi is about the pressure a fuel rail holds, so can fuel injectors operate with HHO the same? 55 LPM is not enough to allow idle.
Today 04:08 PM

Everything about this shouts Faraday which require a lot of power and is always less than 100% efficient due to power losses such as heat. I too have serious doubts, but I'm also prepared to give it a chance.

Is it truly overunity, when you are creating conditions for ions to travel the way is convenient for you? Is it then not similar to solar panels or wind turbines on a very basic level?

If the claims are true it would indeed be overunity. You are using energy to dissociate water into it's component elements, which are then fed into the engine and combusted to provide not only drive, but also continuously power the process. YES it would be overunity.

By the way, what would the exhaust gasses be? Regular distilled water with a hint of oil, or some different H, O, N mix? If water, then no large tank might be needed, just a small reservoir and a purifier.

Mainly water with a hint of the hydrocarbon lubricants and perhaps a little oxide of nitrogen.

[rick123]

Rick

Before you go all out throwing loads of money at this or commiting too much time and effort, I would advise you to hold off until the water settles and full details are provided, because as I mentioned, this would appear to be a very different set-up to that which was detailed in 2002. In fact the two set-ups are rather at odds with each other, which itself raises a truck load of questions.

Let's face it, as always with anything like this the implications are enormous - I mean, they are afterall saying that they've achieved overunity. I'd wait for independent verification, which, if they're on the level should be soon... or of course it all comes crashing back down to earth.

I did not say anything about spending money. I have been around long enough to see many of these guys come and go. Still it is fun getting exited and being hopeful!!! Every time I walk away learning something new. Who knows one of these times it just maybe it will be the real deal. Some info is starting to flow in there Yahoo group. I am thinking it is a scam, but I am game until I know for sure.

Sure was a lot of amps, 80 amps when he was running down the road? The valve feeding the cell was closed, it was a manual valve. So there was a vacuum in the cell? A 3/8 or 1/2 inch line running from the cell to gauge in vehicle, then out to the dryer, then to fuel rail. say 5 meters of line, and he states: 55 LPM . That line would charge to 60 psi in seconds. correct? 60-85 psi is about the pressure a fuel rail holds, so can fuel injectors operate with HHO the same? 55 LPM is not enough to allow idle.

[Jbignes5]

Rofl...

Rick

Before you go all out throwing loads of money at this or commiting too much time and effort, I would advise you to hold off until the water settles and full details are provided, because as I mentioned, this would appear to be a very different set-up to that which was detailed in 2002. In fact the two set-ups are rather at odds with each other, which itself raises a truck load of questions.

Let's face it, as always with anything like this the implications are enormous - I mean, they are afterall saying that they've achieved overunity. I'd wait for independent verification, which, if they're on the level should be soon... or of course it all comes crashing back down to earth.

So which do you want then? Him to verify this or not? Why say to wait for verification of the claims then say they need the verifying to verify the claims before he is to verify it. WTF....

[Cloxxki]

Rick

Before you go all out throwing loads of money at this or commiting too much time and effort, I would advise you to hold off until the water settles and full details are provided, because as I mentioned, this would appear to be a very different set-up to that which was detailed in 2002. In fact the two set-ups are rather at odds with each other, which itself raises a truck load of questions.

Let's face it, as always with anything like this the implications are enormous - I mean, they are afterall saying that they've achieved overunity. I'd wait for independent verification, which, if they're on the level should be soon... or of course it all comes crashing back down to earth.

Is it truly overunity, when you are creating conditions for ions to travel the way is convenient for you? Is it then not similar to solar panels or wind turbines on a very basic level?

Now, could a mini-scale replication be considered? Just to produce gas of which the combustion power will be assessed vs. regular HHO. One double pipe for electrolysis, the circuit and systems replicated as simply as possible, and not even try to loop it. If a balloon of the gas bangs louder than usual HHO, that's huge IMO. The actual looping seems to be a matter of formality. Attaining the same mpg on a similar truck, quite trivial.
I'd accept a water fueled car even if the efficiency was 1/10 of what's being claimed. I'll happily hook on a trailer with large watertank/distiller installation.

By the way, what would the exhaust gasses be? Regular distilled water with a hint of oil, or some different H, O, N mix? If water, then no large tank might be needed, just a small reservoir and a purifier.

[Farrah Day]

Rick

Before you go all out throwing loads of money at this or commiting too much time and effort, I would advise you to hold off until the water settles and full details are provided, because as I mentioned, this would appear to be a very different set-up to that which was detailed in 2002. In fact the two set-ups are rather at odds with each other, which itself raises a truck load of questions.

Let's face it, as always with anything like this the implications are enormous - I mean, they are afterall saying that they've achieved overunity. I'd wait for independent verification, which, if they're on the level should be soon... or of course it all comes crashing back down to earth.

[rick123]

They don't seem to be trying to screw anyone over and you can hear what appears to be genuine excitement from there voices. Then they canceled the get together for aug. 21 because of a cracked cell. That gives me pause and I wonder, "what would be the motive for lying"?
I got a material list ready to go, just need to know a bit more about that PWM and independent verification.

[Farrah Day]

For once I agree with Jibbguy, independent verification is needed otherwise this just becomes another guessing game, or worse just another claim that is destined to become a WFC myth and no more.

What concerns me is that this new design would appear to bear little resemblance to the 2002 model. Fair enough, designs can be modified and bettered, but in 2002 and electrical pulse of just 0.5 Amps was spoken about, with the output transistor having to be capable of switching 1 - 5 amps - very Meyer-like.

However now we see they are talking about 55 amps! Quite a heavy current draw and indeed a heavy current density, which would tend to suggest the unit is now operating more Faraday-like. So it would actually seem to be a complete turn-around as far as the technology is concerned... why? Did the 2002 design not actually do what it said on the tin?

However, if it works, then fair enough, you can't really argue with it.

So the really intriguing thing then of course becomes the fact that the system is providing a lot more energy than it uses. We apparently have greater than 100% efficiency - overunity. And given a lot of heat is dissipated by the cell itself, this then would seem even more remarkable, all of which immediately sets a few of my alarm bells ringing.

None of this will sit very well with educated men and scientists, and indeed I too am on the fence until it is independently verified. I will however be keeping my eye on the proceedings with great interest.

[Cloxxki]

Is it somewhere clearly explained how the ionisation is done? Seems that's probably THE foremost trick (power booster) to get a looped system going?
The pipes in the cell look way neat and all, but would those outperform Faraday's limit by enough to get the loop working with power to spare?

[jibbguy]

Our Mantra on this needs to be

Independent Verification

No substitutions please