Ionization & Water Fuel

[Aaron]

afterglow and plastic pipe

Lord Reyleigh from tests have found when nitrogen is tranformed into active nitrogen or atomic nitrogen that condition is mantain for hours without energy source.. that help a lot us..

you need to use an plastic material low cost for transport ionized/atomic gases, that help a lot to retard change of state.. Meyer in fact mix new nitrogen molecule with hydrogen and oxygen for obtain thermal explosive energy

The nitrogen "afterglow" effect is interesting and is what I was searching
for over a long time for another application. Much of the scientific material
on it have different ideas of why it maintains the glow for such a long time
but it seems, they simply do not know.

I think in its excited state it is tapping vacuum energy - virtual photon
potential from the quantum flux in 3d time/space. That is the only place
it could get its potential to sustain that afterglow.

So the plastic material is dielectric to maintain charge so it doesn't lose
or gain anything from outside pipe?

[h20power]

One Minde, I'm copying your post over here - I have to reread it to see
the details but it discusses ionization and the reactions needing nitrogen.

Thank you Aaron.- You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete -

But the question was about the "Hydrogen Gas Gun."


h2opower

[Aaron]

open systems

Sebosfato,

Chemical reactions violate the thermodynamics all the time. You are talking
about closed system equilibrium thermodynamics, they're irrelevant here.
Water is full of energy and it requires a small input to properly leverage
it. We do NOT have to pay for all the potential energy that is just sitting
there in water, it is free from nature. We only pay for the key that opens
the lock and lets it out.

All over 1.0 COP systems are clearly permissible by non-equilibrium
thermodynamics, which all violate conventional thermodynamics.

Many chemical reactions involve non-equilibrium reactions that are not
explainable by conventional thermodynamics.

Chemistry 1977
Ilya Prigogine - Nobel Lecture

"This process of development attained something of a conclusion in the early years of the present century, and thermodynamics began to be regarded as a branch of science whose evolution was essentially complete. However, it was subject to certain limitations. For the most part it could only deal with reversible processes, that is, processes occurring via states of equilibrium. Even an irreversible system as simple as the thermocouple, with its simultaneous conduction of heat and electricity, could not be satisfactorily treated until Onsager developed the reciprocity relations which earned him the 1968 Nobel Prize for Chemistry.

The reciprocity relations were a great step forward in the development of a thermodynamics of irreversible processes, but they presupposed a linear approximation. which can only be employed relatively close to equilibrium. Prigogine's great contribution lies in his successful development of a satisfactory theory of non-linear thermodynamics in states which are far removed from equilibrium. In doing so he has discovered phenomena and structures of completely new and completely unexpected types, with the result that this generalized, nonlinear and irreversible thermodynamics has already been given surprising applications in a wide variety of fields.


Prigogine has been particularly captivated by the problem of explaining how ordered structures - biological systems, for example - can develop from disorder. Even if Onsager's relations are utilized, the classical principles of equilibrium in thermodynamics still show that linear systems close to equilibrium always develop into states of disorder which are stable to perturbations and cannot explain the occurrence of ordered structures."

[sebosfato]

Can you please than explain to me how can you ionize the n2 or generate your activated nitrogen without inputing energy?

I mean we all might have understood that in the world of physics for an action there is a reaction and vice versa. This is called thermodynamics principle.

Basically what i'm saying is that it doesn't matter if you use 30kv or 100kv the amount of ions generated will depend on the current. Faradays law.

ionization is quite the same thing of electrolysis, high voltage is needed to overcome the minimum potential to allow the current to flow.

Have you heard about ionization current or ion current on ionizers man?

I mean for example if you need at least 55 amps to electrolyze 1 mole of wATER, you would need to extract 55 amps of electrons to ionize 1 mole of any gas, lets say to take of 2 electrons per atom.

So again how do you explain this? I can understand if it is only a kind of acceleration of the gas in the fields but ionization i think not.

Thats also why i disagree with h20power on ionization.

Conceptually if you check what i'm saying is what theory says.

The ionization potential of a gas is the energy required to take apart electrons of its orbits. And = the energy it will release if the electrons recombine into the atom.

Accelerating the gas would just need the fields magnetic or electric and would seem to be more related with what are you saying....

Sorry if i don't drink that explanation that easy...

Best Regards my friend

[Aaron]

One Minde's post

One Minde, I'm copying your post over here - I have to reread it to see
the details but it discusses ionization and the reactions needing nitrogen.

Thank you Aaron.- You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete -

[Aaron]

express mail and patent app

Does anyone have or can anyone find a Stanley Meyer patent Application
#835,564 March 03, 1986?

This patent US4826581 references it and there are other references.

The Object of Invention of US4826581 says: "Electrically charged gas ions
of opposite electrical polarity are activated By Express Mail No. 26224690
on August 5, 1987 by electromagnetic wave energy and exposed to a high
temperature thermal zone."

What is this express mail deal?

Column 3, rows 35-45 or so in US4826581 says:
"Water molecules are broken down into hydrogen, oxygen and released
entrapped gas components by an electrical disassociation process and
apparatus such as shown in my co-pending application Ser. No. 835,564,
filed, March 3, 1986, which is incorporated herein by reference. The
released atomic gases and other gas components formerly trapped as
dissolved gases in water may be introduced to a successive stage..."

[everwiser]

To those not accepting nitrogen as important...

Please allow the discussion to continue without bogging it down. Some of us want to see where this leads without the distractions.

"Failure is merely a detour off of a dead end street..."

Thanks!

[tutanka]

Sebosfato,
Read better the thread.. is explained.. however air processor is the unit that don't create only neutral ions (positive/negative) but also oxygen and nitrogen atomic.. Lord Reyleigh from tests have found when nitrogen is tranformed into active nitrogen or atomic nitrogen that condition is mantain for hours without energy source.. that help a lot us.. you need to use an plastic material low cost for transport ionized/atomic gases, that help a lot to retard change of state.. Meyer in fact mix new nitrogen molecule with hydrogen and oxygen for obtain thermal explosive energy

[sebosfato]

[Aaron]

Nitrogen Is Important

I will delete any further posts dismissing the NITROGEN importance in
the water fuel systems.

I am now suspicious of anyone going out of their way to try to convince
anyone that nitrogen is a waste of time or that it is not a part of Meyer's
process.

I posted the FACTS from Meyer's own patents, diagrams and text showing
that not only is nitrogen important, NITROGEN IS RESPONSIBLE FOR
CONTROLLING THE COMBUSTION PROCESS. It is in the gas gun system,
it is in his burners, it is in just about every patent I have read on Meyer.

If anyone is in doubt, look at the excerpts I posted. Nitrogen is an important
part of Meyer's system, period, end of story. This "nothing to see here folks"
mentality does not sit well with me and I have no tolerance for it or any
attempt at side tracking this thread with misinformation and misdirection.

Anyone can get the patents that I excerpted and get the full patent and
read it for your own eyes to see that what I have posted about Meyer's
patents and the nitrogen involvement is 100% ABSOLUTELY TRUE and
anything that is claimed contrary to that truth is 100% ABSOLUTELY FALSE.

It is a common sense exercise in logic.

In this thread, from this point on, discounting nitrogen here will not be
tolerated. Go post in other threads that support a non-nitrogen involved
process. Period, end of story.

[Aaron]

Hydrogen Gas Gun used Nitrogen

That was a good try to say that Nitrogen is in the system of the Hydrogen Gas Gun

I just wanted everyone to see with there own eyes that Meyers systems didn't have nitrogen in them.

I showed EXACTLY what Meyer is showing and doing in those patent
excerpts. People can see that with their own eyes and you tell them to see
something different.

Below is a HYDROGEN GAS GUN and in this patent, STAN MEYER says
the combustible mixture has AMBIENT AIR GASSES and he also goes on
to state that the AMBIENT AIR makes the combustion controllable.

Even if Meyer had at some point a system that didn't utilize nitrogen,
it is irrelevant. You're making it seem like it invalidates EVERY patent
that he clearly demonstrates mixing nitrogen with the mix and recycling
the exhaust. You think about that clearly and be intellectually honest
about it. Even this gas gun, which shows only water going into the inlet
in the visual diagram...the text reveals that nitrogen IS part of the process
whether you want to believe it or not.

You are telling people to see something about Meyer's patents that is NOT
true in the least bit, I'm showing it clearly with Meyer's own patents,
verbiage and visual diagrams all together. You cannot argue this and you
cannot tell people that see this that in fact, "nitrogen isn't part of the
process." You can hold up 4 fingers and tell me to see 5, but I guarantee
you that I'm going to see 4 and will tell you that I see 4, period.

Feel free to discount the nitrogen in your own Meyer thread. You obviously
disagree with the nitrogen concept as you have so clearly spelled out and
there is nothing else you can post in this thread that will explain that any
more so for the record, we can agree to disagree - as I leave this evidence
in Meyer's own words/diagrams/patents...

Just because the diagram doesn't show the nitrogen does NOT mean it
isn't there.

[tutanka]

Aaron,
How much gas is dissolved in water? It's a very minute amount of the total gas that can be produce from that water Aaron and the higher the temps the less gases can be dissolved in water( the use of the Steam Resonator is to heat up the water remember?). That was a good try to say that Nitrogen is in the system of the Hydrogen Gas Gun, but you need to look up the solubility table of gases in aqueous solutions. There is a reason why you have to keep a soda pop cold. But this goes to show my point in that this is more of a lack of understanding of basic scientific principles, like for example; the solubility of gases in water, than anything else.

Listen I will leave you and the NDA team alone, I just wanted everyone to see with there own eyes that Meyers systems didn't have nitrogen in them. For even the one with the rocket retrofits has two tanks hooked up to the system, one full of oxygen and the other full of hydrogen, there is no third tank full of nitrogen in that system. Again this is for everyone else reading this thread to digest on their own. As you start to look at the work of Stanley Meyer see it for what it is and at first give the patent a real try before jumping ship. I work at my own pace and for most that pace is too slow for them. But the way I see it we all have are own work to do, but unlike this thread at the end of the ride you will get slapped with a NDA for results, and from my side you will get everything freely given to you with no strings attached. You can easily go ahead of me as I have a fixed budget to work from since I have already given the math and science that goes along with it. The controlling circuit was the last part that needed to be worked out so now that it done testing can begin. Remember to use the methods of science with your work so others can duplicate you findings as you pass on the freedom of energy independence to your fellow man. Take care and God Bless everyone for now it is a question of choice, and the final way you choose to go is totally up to you


h2opower.

H2OPOWER,
What is the sense to write words again?? Don't have sense if not to read you what you have written. You don't want consider that gas processor use air and that nitrogen is present inside in more quantities and that react, MAYBE NOT WITH PHOTONS, but surely with HV fields present inside. Maybe you live in an strange planet called H2OPLANET and only oxygen is present here but we live on an planet called Earth and here our ambient air contain 78% nitrogen and 21% oxygen.. and when enter in an strange tube nitrogen isn't cancelled magically.

[tutanka]

Tutanka from what you wrote we can see part of what you have done or almost and its big ... I know the things about the nda are hard... thats why i did choose to don't do it yet ... I still working alone here by my own waiting for help. But progress of study is giant! Anyway I have to respect that source of my info. But i decided to share some of Meyer's findings ... as some are in public domain already...

The big deal is the resonance... not only electrical and at the same time being electrical too...

This is where the energy comes from and or how the energy source works and this is the most important thing...

more important than ionization, more important than not using electrolyte and so on ... Once you understand where the energy comes from many other possibilities comes in front to you...

I guess you already got it while i'm still not sure of it...

If you can follow the ionizationx for further info

Regards

Sebosfato,
I know only that you are working on hydrogen generator and sorry but hydrogen for me isn't the right way for use inside an endothermic engine, you need an unstable molecular mixture similarry in size to air/gasoline.. About ionization.. I created working air processor very HV 30+30Kv that produce effectively neutral ions, highly conductive air similarry an electrolyte but at gassous state. I know only that .. my water system work!

[h20power]

I just put this together... it is in almost all his patents including the
hydrogen gas gun ones.

READ IT - "other gasses formerly dissolved in the water".

That means Meyer bubbled nitrogen or ambient air in the water before
"electrolyzing" it. That is EXACTLY what formerly dissolving other
gasses in the water means.

There is NO question that Meyer was using nitrogen in the process
AND also recycling the exhaust.

Aaron,
How much gas is dissolved in water? It's a very minute amount of the total gas that can be produce from that water Aaron and the higher the temps the less gases can be dissolved in water( the use of the Steam Resonator is to heat up the water remember?). That was a good try to say that Nitrogen is in the system of the Hydrogen Gas Gun, but you need to look up the solubility table of gases in aqueous solutions. There is a reason why you have to keep a soda pop cold. But this goes to show my point in that this is more of a lack of understanding of basic scientific principles, like for example; the solubility of gases in water, than anything else.

Listen I will leave you and the NDA team alone, I just wanted everyone to see with there own eyes that Meyers systems didn't have nitrogen in them. For even the one with the rocket retrofits has two tanks hooked up to the system, one full of oxygen and the other full of hydrogen, there is no third tank full of nitrogen in that system. Again this is for everyone else reading this thread to digest on their own. As you start to look at the work of Stanley Meyer see it for what it is and at first give the patent a real try before jumping ship. I work at my own pace and for most that pace is too slow for them. But the way I see it we all have are own work to do, but unlike this thread at the end of the ride you will get slapped with a NDA for results, and from my side you will get everything freely given to you with no strings attached. You can easily go ahead of me as I have a fixed budget to work from since I have already given the math and science that goes along with it. The controlling circuit was the last part that needed to be worked out so now that it done testing can begin. Remember to use the methods of science with your work so others can duplicate you findings as you pass on the freedom of energy independence to your fellow man. Take care and God Bless everyone for now it is a question of choice, and the final way you choose to go is totally up to you


h2opower.

[sebosfato]

Tutanka from what you wrote we can see part of what you have done or almost and its big ... I know the things about the nda are hard... thats why i did choose to don't do it yet ... I still working alone here by my own waiting for help. But progress of study is giant! Anyway I have to respect that source of my info. But i decided to share some of Meyer's findings ... as some are in public domain already...

The big deal is the resonance... not only electrical and at the same time being electrical too...

This is where the energy comes from and or how the energy source works and this is the most important thing...

more important than ionization, more important than not using electrolyte and so on ... Once you understand where the energy comes from many other possibilities comes in front to you...

I guess you already got it while i'm still not sure of it...

If you can follow the ionizationx for further info

Regards