Water Sparkplug

[ashtweth]

Thanks for the report Revizal. Here is the plug wear report on your circuit running with Wouter's WFA booster. We dropped the dump cap down
from 50 to 30uF.

Seems like not allot of wear, this were the same plugs, so if you compare this to the last photo in the PDf, there does not appear to be significant wear, but we noticed not as much power, so its
still a trade off.

We have some new plugs to try also.

ImageShack - Image Hosting :: 0001139fg9.jpg
ImageShack - Image Hosting :: 0001138ox8.jpg
ImageShack - Image Hosting :: 0001140mc1.jpg

Ps, we got some strange carbon or some thing on the top of the plugs.
ImageShack - Image Hosting :: 0001141ay7.jpg


Ash

[revizal]

Semi Geet setup

Hi All,

Similar as what Greg done (very nice experiment ), I made an experiment on my SUV with 'semi geet setup'. I used 100% gasoline in the bubbler and it's 300 km running now with this setup. Just look like air bleed to the engine, I introduce the fuel vapour at two lines (the top of air filter and inlet vacuum after the carburetor). At this time I used stainless steel wire as the catalyst (need trial and error change the catalyst to see the different effect on cracking Hydrocarbon chain by thermal catalyst).

So far, the engine runs very well. I could increase the speed easily. I donot know the MPG yet (may be after the fuel tank empty).

Right now, I'm still using standard CDI from the car. Later I will introduce our plasma booster ignition on this setup. We'll see the effect on power and MPG...


Rev.

[gmeast]

timing

Excellent setup idea Greg ... looks like you found a new use for those heaters ... kind of like a semi GEET built right in ... very kool

Things are beginning to get very interesting ... are you also going to play with retarding the timing?

Thanks for sharing these important and exiting test results.

and

Luc

Hi Luc,

Timing is one of those things ... a variable. I'm not sure I have specifics in mind regarding that ... I'll ask for suggestions.

Greg

[gotoluc]

Hello everyone,

I have been busy doing some numb-skull experiments. One experiment that has determined the direction for the water spark plug's application to my Bug is this one:

First - older air cooled VW engines have an inlet air heat duct that comes from the hot air heater manifold (wraps around the exhaust). At idle a vane directs cooler inlet air to draw warm air off of the exhaust system for warm up. As the engine speed increases the vane is deflected by the flow and begins to bypass the warm air and include cooler ambient air.

It is at the inlet end of the heat duct that I liberally sprayed water mist that readily turns to steam and is ingested as water vapor along with the air.

With the plasma spark switched 'OFF', the engine sputtered or slowed at idle with the addition of the water vapor.

With the plasma spark switched 'ON', the engine sped up at idle with the addition of the water vapor.

So, I will by leaning the engine and bubbling bypass exhaust up through 50% distilled water / gasoline as a component of the inlet air.

This is exciting !

Peace,

Greg

Excellent setup idea Greg ... looks like you found a new use for those heaters ... kind of like a semi GEET built right in ... very kool

Things are beginning to get very interesting ... are you also going to play with retarding the timing?

Thanks for sharing these important and exiting test results.

and

Luc

[gmeast]

water mist

Hello everyone,

I have been busy doing some numb-skull experiments. One experiment that has determined the direction for the water spark plug's application to my Bug is this one:

First - older air cooled VW engines have an inlet air heat duct that comes from the hot air heater manifold (wraps around the exhaust). At idle a vane directs cooler inlet air to draw warm air off of the exhaust system for warm up. As the engine speed increases the vane is deflected by the flow and begins to bypass the warm air and include cooler ambient air.

It is at the inlet end of the heat duct that I liberally sprayed water mist that readily turns to steam and is ingested as water vapor along with the air.

With the plasma spark switched 'OFF', the engine sputtered or slowed at idle with the addition of the water vapor.

With the plasma spark switched 'ON', the engine sped up at idle with the addition of the water vapor.

So, I will by leaning the engine and bubbling bypass exhaust up through 50% distilled water / gasoline as a component of the inlet air.

This is exciting !

Peace,

Greg

[Ansis Freimanis]

to Aaron

Please, don’t separate these ideas to other forum! I mean forum is all this- (schematics, real constructions) and our comments about similar projects.
If we separate our comments, it makes a forum like something "without skin". Yes, ideas are very close one to another!
P.S. Maybe all this (We are) is capable to make something really new!
Thanks.

[Kinetix]

Hi guys.
It's interesting what Krupa says about that low rpm idling phenomenon. He said that was posible due to his special spark plug. BUT I experienced the same phenomenon on an old Renault12 type car, years ago. It had a simple one barrel carburetor and a simple ignition system (points, coil and capacitor). As I recall correctly, there were two instances when the engine spinned at a very low rpm at idling, after I started it. I think it was under 400rpm (?), and the engine was very quiet and quite smooth. It lasted few tens of seconds, as I was amazed, and died after that. I do not know what would it done if I accelerate it, cause I didn't have time. I was trying to make some carburetor adjusting, but I suppose it was a quite lean mixture...
I cannot explain the effect even today. And, remember there was no special ignition system or spark plugs.
It would be interesting to replicate this effect with ordinary parts, as it would probably bring gas saving.
All the best.

[Chris31]

All I have, is info from You Tube and internet.
YouTube - Firestorm Spark Plugs

http://waterfuel.100free.com/super_spark_plug.html

Will do more reading about the plugs. 100HP extra power, alone thats more than enough to run a small/medium sized car.

As for robert and bob, they are the same name.

[ashtweth]

Luc making the most of what we have as can be also conceived or interpreted with your post is a better point then mine. We are lucky to have you as our head engineer on the WATER spark plug . This must be looked into, ill do my best to provide what input i can regarding your suggestions. As always, a fan not as good as you guys.

Ash

[gotoluc]

Hi Aaron and Luc.

Yeah i thought he might have had some sort of custom ignition system, but the question remains if energy in equals energy out, i don't think he had a /Brigg's running that ignition systems, its still the car battery right? How did he produce 100HP of power, even if it was a custom ignitions system, where is that energy coming from? Ill be putting Greg's or Rev's circuit on a dyno in December in wanna see the amps in to the HP out Ps, ill have some plug wear photos tomorrow

Your question is a good one

I think part of the power gain could be from a more ideal power stroke position like TDC and the other part would be from an ultra fast and complete combustion. I know it's hard to believe in using less will give you more but I think it could in ideal settings. Time will tell

Looking forward to the plug wear shots

Thanks for sharing mate



Luc

[Aaron]

Charles Lindbergh

We can maybe move this to one of the firestorm threads but Krupa said in the interview that when the fuel is leaned to 30:1, at that point, it transmutes with his ignition/plug system from a carbon based fuel to a hydrogen based fuel.

I have a friend here that saw one variation I was working on several months ago. He explained it to his friend who is also here...a world record land speed record holder and is like a Tesla with race car engines.

This person told my friend a story about Charles Lindbergh and lean running engines - I found this same story online:

"Two missions later, on 3 July, the group covered sixteen heavies on a strike against Jefman Island. Lindbergh led Hades Squadron's White Flight as they wove back and forth above the lumbering B-25s. After the attack the Lightnings went barge hunting.

First one, then two pilots reported dwindling fuel and broke off for home. MacDonald ordered the squadron back but because Lindbergh had nursed his fuel, he asked for and received permission to continue the hunt with his wingman. After a few more strafing runs, Lindbergh noticed the other Lightning circling overhead.



Nervously the pilot told Lindbergh that he had only 175 gallons of fuel left. The civilian told him to reduce engine rpms, lean out his fuel mixture, and throttle back. When they landed, the 431st driver had seventy gallons left, Lindbergh had 260. They had started the mission with equal amounts of gas.


Lindbergh talked with MacDonald. The colonel then asked the group's pilots to assemble at the recreation hall that evening. The hall was that in name only, packed dirt floors staring up at a palm thatched roof, one ping pong table and some decks of cards completing the decor. Under the glare of unshaded bulbs, MacDonald got down to business. "Mr. Lindbergh" wanted to explain how to gain more range from the P-38s.



In a pleasant manner Lindbergh explained cruise control techniques he had worked out for the Lightnings: reduce the standard 2,200 rpm to 1,600, set fuel mixtures to "auto-lean," and slightly increase manifold pressures. This, Lindbergh predicted, would stretch the Lightning's radius by 400 hundred miles, a nine-hour flight. When he concluded his talk half an hour later, the room was silent.


The men mulled over several thoughts in the wake of their guest's presentation. The notion of a nine-hour flight literally did not sit well with them, "bum-busters" thought some. Seven hours in a cramped Lightning cockpit, sitting on a parachute, an emergency raft, and an oar was bad, nine hours was inconceivable.



They were right. Later, on 14 October 1944, a 432nd pilot celebrated his twenty-fourth birthday with an eight-hour escort to Balikpapan, Borneo. On touching down, he was so cramped his crew chief had to climb up and help him get out of the cockpit.





During their brief encounter, MacDonald had come to respect Lindbergh. Both men pushed hard and had achieved. Both were perfectionists never leaving things half done. And both had inquisitive minds. John Loisel, commanding officer the 432nd, remembered the two men talking for long periods over a multitude of topics beyond aviation.



If, as MacDonald had informed his pilots, better aircraft performance meant a shorter war, then increasing the Lightning's range was worth investigating. Lindbergh provided the idea, but it was MacDonald's endorsement, backed by the enormous respect accorded him by the group, that saw the experiment to fruition.


The next day, the Fourth of July, Lindbergh accompanied the 433rd on a six-hour, forty-minute flight led by Captain "Parky" Parkansky. Upon landing, the lowest fuel level recorded was 160 gallons. In his journal entry Lindbergh felt ". . . that the talk last night was worthwhile. " The 475th had lengthened its stride."


--------------------------------



If Lindbergh showed that increased manifold pressure was necessary for this to work in those p38 engines, I wonder if this would be the same as using a turbo or supercharger? They weren't dealing with these plasma ignitions but but his project is about that and it has been shown that under compression, the effect is even bigger. Anyway, just an interesting story I thought.



I found other references that the engines did NOT get hot nor was there damage but the plugs 'could' have shorter life. I thought I read that before when I was searching for that story.

[ashtweth]

Hi Aaron and Luc.

Yeah i thought he might have had some sort of custom ignition system, but the question remains if energy in equals energy out, i don't think he had a /Brigg's running that ignition systems, its still the car battery right? How did he produce 100HP of power, even if it was a custom ignitions system, where is that energy coming from? Ill be putting Greg's or Rev's circuit on a dyno in December in wanna see the amps in to the HP out Ps, ill have some plug wear photos tomorrow

[gotoluc]

What i would like to know is how he gets 100HP with a spark plug and a standard ignition source. Ie- A CAR BATTERY. 100HP, RU gonna tell me that's not OU? How many KW is 100HP..

Hi Ash, are you talking of Robert Krupa's Firestorm plug dyno test that showed a 100HP gain? if so, you maybe thinking he was using a standard ignition on that test but am quite positive he was not. From my testing I can tell you his plug design shows its advantages when used with a plasma ignition system.

Installing a set of Krupra Firestorm plugs on a vehicle with stock ignition and ECU program will show no advantages other then the plugs lasting forever.

In case you were talking of something else, please accept my apology for this rant.

Luc

[Aaron]

crane cam

Ash,

I think the ignition on the firestorms was a crane came performance ignition that gave 1 joule per punch.

[ashtweth]

What i would like to know is how he gets 100HP with a spark plug and a standard ignition source. Ie- A CAR BATTERY. 100HP, RU gonna tell me that's not OU? How many KW is 100HP..