Bedini Earth Light

[Allwest]

@all;




Even solar is not free! These can be very expensive systems to set up (solar panels, controllers, storage, etc) and they do not last forever.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with galvanic cells if we take them for what they are and are inexpensive to build, otherwise, buy the 12.5 cent AA battery from the dollar store. To recycle junk and waste into energy is a great place to start.

I have many different type cells prepared and sitting on a shelf ready to put into action should the need arise. What I personally would like to see is a better storage application for power when needed. Secondary batteries are typically not environmentally safe and expensive to replace and they do have built in losses associated. Hydrogen can be stored, but is still expensive to make and is volatile. Name any other method of power storage and they all have some kind of problem associated with them.

I am thankful to all the people that I have interacted with on this thread and have learned so much from everyone involved here. With the knowledge gained from this thread and others, as well as participating on other sites, I am at least gaining confidence in these technologies and more willing to be creative in this new hobby of mine. I hope this will continue to be a hobby and not a necessity.

Brad S

b_rads

You should check out this power storage device
Paper BATTERY invented at Stanford University. Paper+ink+nanotubes=INSTANT BATTERY. - YouTube

[Allwest]

Another site

Make Conductive Glue, Conductive Paint, and Conductive Ink
Make Conductive Glue, Conductive Paint, and Conductive Ink

[Allwest]

To all

Has any body tried using conductive ink on these cells?

How to Make Conductive Ink | eHow.com

[NickZ]

The only way to know for sure about any cell, is a long term test driving a real load. Until that is done AND REPLICATED, and shown, we can't tell what's what. No voltage or current readings are being mentioned,or a load test done.

About the nail in the tree, well I'm sorry about that. I'm just looking for more than a dim led and one mA of output. And this thread was going nowhere, silent, boring, and it's not me distracting it with something that has nothing to do with what we are doing here.
Some guys really want to get somewhere with all this.

[vintasalo]

@Nick's

Damn buddy, who pissed in your free energy Cheerios?? Hahaha.. you must has Dix's me about 5 times about a nail in the tree. None the less your missing the point. Everyone is trying to figure this all out together and you can't just get frustrated and take it out on everyone like step daughters you don't like!!

Every step taken is one step closer to the final product and people like JB are just out for themselves. Notice that their is a reason for free energy and the reason and solution is probably staring you right in the face. A nail in a tree provides evidence of energy everywhere.

Winners win due to their lack of giving up

[Slider2732]

You guys got me thinking, so I dug out a glue cell, from when we were sticking the ingredients between pennies (all seems a long time ago now, 9 months ?).

With a voltage reading of 0.617V and 40uA current, the cell below is still able to power up an LED blocking oscillator, with approx 5Hz flash rate.
It's one of those contentious Moretons Salt Substitute ones. Proof of picture date is why the signal meter from the SEC exciter thread is in the shot...my atomic clock blew up last week. This cell has lasted longer than that did !

[NickZ]

Guys:
Ib: You have a good memory, but things do change, and I have found the different salts, but no longer make salt based cells.
As all the cells that I've made here in my humid sea side ambient, that combine salts with metals and are exposed to air, will show oxidation, and break down in time.
I have also made many dry carbon/Al type cells, that use no salts or beach sand,or any water, at all. And they do work, and are still working BUT, very, very weakly. Until they are wet, then they come to life. So, I've also given up on that "dry" cell idea, for now. but, I don't discard it yet.
Hydrogen gas needs to escape and vent, and/or be taken care of by a depolarizer. That was why I at one time used the recycled old battery materials which included a depolarizer. As there was no other practical way to obtain that chemical here. But, that is not an easy solution to be used or recommended, especially with hermetically sealed cells.

Two hundred years or more have passed and many many tests have been done with batteries and cells of different types. If there was an easy solution it would have been found.
In any case, I'm still very much interested in finding a true non galvanic semiconductor type cell, as I've repeatedly mentioned, and hope that it will someday exist.

For now I've been able to use my homemade cells to connect to the Slayer Exciter type oscillator circuits, and make them work even wireless.
So, that is what I'm working to develop and improve on now. As the Exciters circuits will work, even with these low current types of cells, or smaller solar panels, as an efficient source of voltage pressure to provide for wireless, or a one wire light transfer throughout the house.

Best wishes to all, and please forgive any rudeness on my part.
NickZ

[ibpointless2]

Ib2:
I'm just not of the same opinion, as we've heard this all before, many times.
Just because you say that your cell(s) which are made with Epsom salts/salt substitute and glue, which are all full of trapped water, are not galvanic, doesn't make them so, even though they are cooked on the stove, they will further absorb water from the air, and a lot of it.
I have made your cells, in fact several of them, but have poor output current output, as a little piece of wire doesn't do much for current output, or make them very usable comparatively. Compared to 50 to 75 mAs, which my carbon/Al cells can still provide still, I saw no point.
You saw how the video showed NO OUTPUT on the salt sub cell until water was added. This is not an important result or finding? Means nothing?
You've made the bigger 5 foot version that shows more than a couple of micro amps, and that they are not galvanic, but, is it. You don't show that now. Or the cell like my hot dog cell that you had before, and I still have, which is full of holes and bubbles where the hydrogen gas blew right threw the glue in many spots. As in little time the results from the higher output will quickly will show themselves.
I love your work, and always have, so let just agree to disagree. The best thing is to show what you mean, as opinions are a dime a dozen. I will also put my ideas on the table for all to see and and critizise, as as I have before, as that is sometimes how we learn.
I give my opinion, for what it's worth, when I hear something contrary, as I find that my cells are nothing but galvanic, I hate to say, as different from what I had thought years before. I wish they weren't, but they are.
Lidmotor also did a study of the cells that John provided him for testing, and also found galvanic break down behind them as well.
To find the true reasons why these cells work, if not by a chemical reaction is very important. And to make them of a useable and lasting output, even more so.
This is all very exciting work, after all, by what ever causes that make these cells function, they are still not something that you can just buy off the shelf.
Nick

@NickZ

You have never built my cells, you said so yourself. This is the exact words you said "I can't get Epsom here, I've looked for it, or the salt substitute. So, Sea Salt, or table salt is all I have to work with, so far. I'm sure results would be better by using them instead." Here's the link http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post185824

So once again how can you say my cells are galvanic when you can't get the supplies that make them work? The best you have ever done is make a glue cell with table salt in it and I have repeatedly told you not to do that because it doesn't work out. You can't compare my glue cells to your table salt cell they're not the same.

Plus I have made more than then glue cells, how about the pressure cells? The pressure cell never see water and only consist of salt substitute that is crushed in a tube of copper. The pressure cell JB made had voltage and it was climbing so to say it had no power is a outright lie.

You can't compare your hot dog cell to mine, I've told many times that using glue and table salt is a bad idea but you would not listen. Also i have proven my cells are not galvanic by taking them apart and showing all the metal underneath. Dissecting A crystal cell - YouTube

Also we been over this many times, just because Epsom salt has water in it does not mean the cell uses it. Stick your electrodes in a cup of Epsom salt and notice you get no voltage.

And don't bring up your carbon capacitor can cells up. You started off using the guts from a used battery so its no wonder that it works because you just back engineered a AA battery. Also you would use Sea sand which contained salt water. When someone reproduces your cell it doesn't work because they didn't cheat and add electrolyte from a used battery. Here's the link http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post159949

[NickZ]

Ib2:
I'm just not of the same opinion, as we've heard this all before, many times.
Just because you say that your cell(s) which are made with Epsom salts/salt substitute and glue, which are all full of trapped water, are not galvanic, doesn't make them so. Even though they are cooked on the stove, they will further absorb water from the air, and a lot of it.
I have made your cells, in fact several of them, but they have poor current output, as a little piece of wire as the electrode doesn't do much for current output, or make them very usable comparatively. As compared to the 50 to 75 mAs, which my carbon/Al cells can and do still provide, I saw no point.

You saw how the video showed NO OUTPUT on the salt sub cell until water was added. Is this not an important result or finding? Means nothing?

You've made the bigger 5 foot version that shows more than a couple of micro amps. Is that not galvanic, I think that it surely is. You don't show that now, to show the wear on the magnesium ribbon. Or the cell like my hot dog cell that you also had made and painted blue, which I still have, and which is now full of holes and bubbles from where the hydrogen gas blew right through the glue in many spots.
As in little time the results from the higher output cells break-down will quickly show themselves.

I love your work, and always have, so lets just agree to disagree. The best thing is to show what you mean, as opinions are a dime a dozen. I will also put my ideas on the table for all to see, as I have before, as that is sometimes how we learn.
I give my opinion, when I hear something contrary, as I find that my cells are nothing but galvanic, I hate to say, as different from what I had thought years before, I wish they weren't, but they are.

Lidmotor also did a study of the cells that John provided him for testing, and also found galvanic break down behind them as well. But, I will not comment more on other peoples work, as it always gets me into these kinds of discussions

I still think that the idea of the "two semiconductor layers" as in a transistor , impermeable to electron flow, but permitting ION flow is the possible key, to avoiding galvanics. Then becoming like an ION VALVE CELL, instead, of one dissolving into mush.
To find the true reasons why these cells work, if other than the normal "chemical reaction" at the expense of the cells metals and electrolytes, is still very important work. And to make them of a useable and lasting output, even more so.
This is all very exciting work, after all, by what ever causes that make these cells function, they are still not something that you can just buy off the shelf.
I am not argueing, but have to state my opinion, you can think as you want, no one is trying to convince you.
Nick

[b_rads]

@ b_rads

How are the bio-plastic cells doing? The Bio-plastic idea seems like a wonderful idea to make a cell out of.

Are you psychic or what! I am in the man cave replacing my router, when I looked over at the bio-plastic cell. It stopped powering the Penny Oscillator about a week ago, so I took it apart. Only a slight tarnish on the Mg and copper looks great. The bio-plastic filler is as hard as a guitar pick. It came apart very easily, worthy of further research. Not certain at the moment how long it functioned, will need to check my notes, impressive nontheless.

Good to here from you again IB

Nick, we might not find the solution we want but stranger things have happened. Remember the story of the "Slinky", it was not created to be a toy.
History of the Slinky Toy - Richard James and Betty James
We have been at this a long time Nick and learned much, mostly what not to do. Keep plugging at it my friend.

Brad S

[ibpointless2]

Ib2 cells are as galvanic as most other cells. The only difference is that they do not conduce current well with only two tiny metal electrodes, so they do not have any USUABLE power, only fluffy voltage, and therefore the galvanic break down of the metals is very minimal, but existent. Epsom salts are FULL of water, and so, they are a galvanic cell also, but do not conduce current well when the salts are dry. This has all been said before, why don't you realize it? Still? Is Pico amps what you want. Dim leds. Is It?

Lidmotor has done a months long experiment on the Ib2 type cell, only to find that it died... WHY???? give it water and it lives on, Or not?
By drying a salt based electrolytic cell, and calling it something else, does not make it so. This has been studied and looked into. Air humidity is what causes oxidation, not just water. An open exposed salt base cell is absorbing water and will even form puddles. And hydrogen gas from the hydrolysis reaction is further converted to water, and will also cause a lowering of the output. Or not?
You both don't believe me, or John, ok??? You saw the video? NO current, zilch, nada on the salt sub type cell if no water is added. Voltage with no current means nothing when using conventional electronics that depend on it. Adding Epsom to the sub salt will not make it different. If so prove it. 2mAs, and less under load after a while. Is this what we are discussing?
This is what you are after, this is all you need? After years of playing around with this.

There is more to this, and John B is about the only one that is really working on it, by not allowing the galvanic reaction to ruin the results.
I know that there are other guys that are also working on this also, and know what I mean. IONS are what are needed to produce output, in this case. and not electrons. There is a difference. They will not produce the break-down of the metals, and will provide for more than miliamps of output.

NickZ

The cell lid motor tested died after running for several months, but once the cell was allowed to rest it recharged itself back up and would run the oscillator once more. When the cell ran down you allow it to recharge itself and it will run again.

How can you say my cells are galvanic when you have never built one?

Nick I'm not going spend all my time arguing with you. If you want to build water batteries than so be it. Everything has been recorded on this thread and when future readers read I hope they gather a better understanding of what I've been trying to say.

[NickZ]

Ib2 cells are as galvanic as most other cells. The only difference is that they do not conduce current well with only two tiny metal electrodes, so they do not have any USUABLE power, only fluffy voltage, and therefore the galvanic break down of the metals is very minimal, but existent. Epsom salts are FULL of water, and so, they are a galvanic cell also, but do not conduce current well when the salts are dry. This has all been said before, why don't you realize it? Still? Is Pico amps what you want. Dim leds. Is It?

Lidmotor has done a months long experiment on the Ib2 type cell, only to find that it died... WHY???? give it water and it lives on, Or not?
By drying a salt based electrolytic cell, and calling it something else, does not make it so. This has been studied and looked into. Air humidity is what causes oxidation, not just water. An open exposed salt base cell is absorbing water and will even form puddles. And hydrogen gas from the hydrolysis reaction is further converted to water, and will also cause a lowering of the output. Or not?
You both don't believe me, or John, ok??? You saw the video? NO current, zilch, nada on the salt sub type cell if no water is added. Voltage with no current means nothing when using conventional electronics that depend on it. Adding Epsom to the sub salt will not make it different. If so prove it. 2mAs, and less under load after a while. Is this what we are discussing?
This is what you are after, this is all you need? After years of playing around with this.

There is more to this, and John B is about the only one that is really working on it, by not allowing the galvanic reaction to ruin the results.
I know that there are other guys that are also working on this also, and know what I mean. IONS are what are needed to produce output, in this case. and not electrons. There is a difference. They will not produce the break-down of the metals, and will provide for more than miliamps of output.

NickZ

[ibpointless2]

@ b_rads

How are the bio-plastic cells doing? The Bio-plastic idea seems like a wonderful idea to make a cell out of.

[ibpointless2]

Wow Nick,

Settle down!

IB has it right, (Water does equal galvanic) IB has been the only one true to the crystal cause, no matter how low the power is, he is trying within the boundaries of the cause.

Otherwise you have a saltwater galvanic battery, that has VERY low power compared to what we can buy for $0.12


Best of luck

Thank You Allwest, I'm glad your on the same page as me.



@NickZ
If you remove the water the galvanic cell stops producing voltage. Stick two metals in a cup of dry salt and you'll notice you get no voltage but add some water to it and you get voltage, its that simple. Things corrode due to exposure to water. I have made several cells that keep running even when they have the water removed. Even though the amps are small atleast I stay within the boundaries of the crystal cell concept. John Bedini was even doing it better than me with his semiconductor cells, but no more information was heard about those cells so who knows what happen to them? You also forget that I use small electrodes which means small power. It all can be scaled up for more power. I have made three different types of cells that don't need water to be added to them to work, the crystal glue cell, pressure cell, and stove top cell. If three exist that means more exist and that means that the other types can also produce more amps so all we need to do is just look for it. Its my humble opinion that we should not default to using water because its the easy way out and if you do use water you need to provide great proof that the metals are not corroding and not just say "its not corroding."


@all
If you have a cell and you want to know if its using water as the median there is 3 test you can do. You can put it in your freezer over night and if it still maintains most of its voltage than its not using water. You can also put it in the oven at 350 F for 30 minutes and if it comes out still alive with most of its voltage than its not using water. Also you can try putting it in a oil bath, this is not as effective but water and oil don't mix.

[Allwest]

You have been on that same direction for years, what have you accomplished???? Pico amps, and useless output. You do not listen. That is why you have nothing to show for it. John has mentioned it to you, I have mentioned it to you. There is NO hope with you? 0+0 = 0 Wake up! You have nothing to show for it. You know that if you had a point, I would back you up...100% but, you don't. I'm on YOUR side, but, you are not getting anywhere with this, years are passing... Do you want to show your totally dim led output to everyone, is that it? Wow!

Wow Nick,

Settle down!

IB has it right, (Water does equal galvanic) IB has been the only one true to the crystal cause, no matter how low the power is, he is trying within the boundaries of the cause.

Otherwise you have a saltwater galvanic battery, that has VERY low power compared to what we can buy for $0.12


Best of luck