Bedini Ferris Wheel Regauging Motor

[BrentA929]

Winding is done

Hey Guys,

I wanted to fill everyone in on our progress...

I first want to say how difficult it was to wind a 11" spool. I definitely under-estimated the difficulty. We ended up having to build a fairly large winding jig with a winch to do the winding. We have never done anything like that before...obviously!


Thought some of you may be interested in our specs...

The center coil is 124 lbs. without the core and has 2615 turns of the 4 coils (not sure how accurate the turns are due to how we had the counter mounted, but I would say that it is pretty darn close) **Way off from the 4000 turns that JB has stated!**

Slave____________Center__________Slave
13.6 ohms_______4.5 ohms________13.6 ohms___=______________Power__________Control_________Control
13.5 ohms_______13.5 ohms_______27.3 ohms______27.3 ohms___=___

[chuck H]

Cap dump

@ Minoly
Very nice on your 3pole. Slower is better! (Very good results as well 30v dumps)...

[genessc]

Howdy Ecancanvas...

Hi Ed,

One other thing you might try is to reduce the uF size of the capacitor you are using. If the cap is to big, it won't discharge fully in the timing allotted it. (tho this is usually an SCR issue, not so much a mosfet problem since the fet should turn on and off with the applied potential.) just a thought anyways.

Take care,
Gene

Thanks everyone for your ideas its back to the garage
ED

[minoly]

I tried a separate winding of 27# wire, 2 layers right on the main core. Than I wound the drive winding over it till the bobbin was full.
I used a resistor, pot voltage divider to supply from 0-5V dc to the small coil. I also use different amount of supplied currents. The coil was wound the same direction as the main coil.
I applied the voltage to it both ways to see if there was any difference in performance.
I also adjusted the timing and dwell for certain coil bias voltages.
I am sorry to report that it made absolutely no difference to the reactive output or the signal shape on the scope.
What I did find was that if I connect that small coil in parallel with the main and slave coils, it kills the radiant completely.
Back to the drawing board.
Vissie

Hi Vissie,
sorry, I'm missing something there. so you have 3 windings on the main coil?
or two windings, the second one was wound after the first?
or something else I missed.
#27 on the second - what is on the first wind?

Patrick

[nvisser]

Mag amp bias winding

I tried a separate winding of 27# wire, 2 layers right on the main core. Than I wound the drive winding over it till the bobbin was full.
I used a resistor, pot voltage divider to supply from 0-5V dc to the small coil. I also use different amount of supplied currents. The coil was wound the same direction as the main coil.
I applied the voltage to it both ways to see if there was any difference in performance.
I also adjusted the timing and dwell for certain coil bias voltages.
I am sorry to report that it made absolutely no difference to the reactive output or the signal shape on the scope.
What I did find was that if I connect that small coil in parallel with the main and slave coils, it kills the radiant completely.
Back to the drawing board.
Vissie

[minoly]

That makes sense. might have some time this afternoon to wind another "power" coil - test some things out...
Thanks

@John K.
is this how you have your coil wound?

Patrick

[Web000x]

when you say reverse bias, does that mean reverse the polarity?
(please excuse my ignorance)
we reversed the polarity on one of our slaves here:
YouTube - 3 Pole Monopole Farris Wheel Cap Dump
the two slaves can be advanced or retarded to help w/ timing. John B. said parallel, he never mentioned the polarity - it seems to work.

If we line them up according to the info provided in this thread. it spins too fast. our thinking w/ this: we are not going to build a 13ft wheel and even if we build a 6 footer, we're never going to duplicate the coil to magnet ratio/balance - so something has to give in our replication - we've been doomed for failure several times on this thread for cannibalizing our 3pm kit to mess around w/ the 3GT principles. however we think we have come extremely close to getting the make and break principle of the PMH to work here. as slow as that little wheel turns, it charges very well.

Patrick

From my understanding, it is a reverse polarity on one of the control windings.

I believe that John Bedini had all of his power coils set up for repulsion, but nvisser posted some results from using the two slaves in attraction and the main coil in repulsion. John said that it could be done either way.

Dave

[minoly]

I started a word document with some "John Said" posts in them. This is all I have so far, but I never did finish my document. Hope this helps.

Post #740

Post #738


I can tell that one of the mag amp windings is reverse biased possibly with a capacitor and a resistor in series, but the second quote is unclear to me. The other winding might be pulsed with the switch??

Dave

when you say reverse bias, does that mean reverse the polarity?
(please excuse my ignorance)
we reversed the polarity on one of our slaves here:
YouTube - 3 Pole Monopole Farris Wheel Cap Dump
the two slaves can be advanced or retarded to help w/ timing. John B. said parallel, he never mentioned the polarity - it seems to work.

If we line them up according to the info provided in this thread. it spins too fast. our thinking w/ this: we are not going to build a 13ft wheel and even if we build a 6 footer, we're never going to duplicate the coil to magnet ratio/balance - so something has to give in our replication - we've been doomed for failure several times on this thread for cannibalizing our 3pm kit to mess around w/ the 3GT principles. however we think we have come extremely close to getting the make and break principle of the PMH to work here. as slow as that little wheel turns, it charges very well.

Patrick

[Web000x]

Hello All I have a question about the controll wires. Is the controll voltage and resistor set or adjustable like in my pic. Is the controll voltage pulsed with the main or on steady? I know in my Mag amp set up I kept it adjustable with a pot. Randy


Quote from post #122 JB
" I said that four coils are wound on one coil form two #15 wires and two #18 wires. The # 18 wires are control wires the two 15 wires are power wires, look up the definition for Mag Amp. understand what a Mag Amp is and how it control's energy, self biased inside the coil. " John B

[ATTACH]7648[/ATTACH]
Any replys welcome
Randy

I started a word document with some "John Said" posts in them. This is all I have so far, but I never did finish my document. Hope this helps.

Post #740

John K,
Just use a little DC bias on one winding but reverse, you must choose the resistor, may also require a capacitor in series. I have been watching Chuck H at work with his machine I have not seen him charge the batteries yet but he can also tell you that it's not easy to tune. Just ask him he is on this group. Do not give up I did not learn this overnight.
John

Post #738

@all,
Yes the inductance does change when the magnets pass the pole. The one thing that you can not do in the machine is twist the wires. Now each wire in the main coil has it's own resistance so this is offset a little when it turns on sort of like a mag amp but pulsed DC or more like PWM because of the switching so I had to sit and tune it for maximum power low RPM.

I can tell that one of the mag amp windings is reverse biased possibly with a capacitor and a resistor in series, but the second quote is unclear to me. The other winding might be pulsed with the switch??

Dave

[Rl2003]

GT3 v2

Hi Mark,

It looks like you have the timing right as it self starts.

I think that a smaller diameter wheel is goin to turn faster than a bigger one. Just like the SSG a smaller rotor will spin faster but may not charge better than a larger rotor does. question is, are the coils on long enough to saturate the cores and give you the biggest spike when they discharge?

A slower wheel will do this easy as the hall is on for longer. IMO the dwell needs to be just right and the timing of the switch on is the other important factor. If you get these two right you'll get the biggest bang for your buck.

I'm still waiting on parts so I haven't done anything more yet. I blew my last SCR the other day so I'll have to get more of them as well.

I've been playing with a PIC controlled solid state version and will post some results when I get it tuned properly.


John K.

John K.

I do plan to add some weight to the rotor in the near future as well, but after
I learn some more about this. I have alot of mechanical expereance, but not
as much electrical, so this is a learning work in progress. I have some plans
and parts for a larger rotor v3 already in the back.

I got a PIC from Bit's in his early days of developing the TS, which he calls his
battery swapper. I do plan to use this with this project soon, but it's not quite
ready yet. In fact I will call on his help when I get there, hopefully he will have
some time to spare. I would like to know how you plan to use the PIC as well?
I am a Programmer by deg. but never used it much. I rather build and
experiment.

Mark

[Rl2003]

GT3 v2

Hey Mark,

I'm a bit confused by your video. How were you able to flip your switch and cause the wheel to spin clockwise for a brief moment and then take off counter clockwise? It didn't look like it was slamming into any magnetic fields. It looked like a repulsion then attraction.

Do you have your slaves in attraction and the main coil in repulsion or visa versa?

You say that you have your coil wires in parallel. Are you running separate transistor pairs for each power strand?

Dave

Dave,
Good question. I believe that they are in repulsion as I turn the switch on..
then as the hall is out of reach of the trigger magnets it switches off,
to attraction and pulls it back into a CCW rotation. Its a small rotor remember, not as much
momentum built up as JB's ferris wheel. If a adjust the hall, advanced more,
it will rotate CW a little longer, but the way I have it set-up is not 100% correct yet.

Yes, All in parallel. Just the two transistors until I build a new set-up. They do
get very warm.

Mark

[Mr.Whip]

#18 wires for biasing

Hello All I have a question about the controll wires. Is the controll voltage and resistor set or adjustable like in my pic. Is the controll voltage pulsed with the main or on steady? I know in my Mag amp set up I kept it adjustable with a pot. Randy


Quote from post #122 JB
" I said that four coils are wound on one coil form two #15 wires and two #18 wires. The # 18 wires are control wires the two 15 wires are power wires, look up the definition for Mag Amp. understand what a Mag Amp is and how it control's energy, self biased inside the coil. " John B


Any replys welcome
Randy

[John_K]

Bedini 3GT

Hi Mark,

It looks like you have the timing right as it self starts.

I think that a smaller diameter wheel is goin to turn faster than a bigger one. Just like the SSG a smaller rotor will spin faster but may not charge better than a larger rotor does. question is, are the coils on long enough to saturate the cores and give you the biggest spike when they discharge?

A slower wheel will do this easy as the hall is on for longer. IMO the dwell needs to be just right and the timing of the switch on is the other important factor. If you get these two right you'll get the biggest bang for your buck.

I'm still waiting on parts so I haven't done anything more yet. I blew my last SCR the other day so I'll have to get more of them as well.

I've been playing with a PIC controlled solid state version and will post some results when I get it tuned properly.


John K.

Hello every one,
I have been unable to post lately, due to work. It seems to allways get
in the way.
I did adjust a few small things. First I am running all the windings in
parallel. Thats the two slaves and the four windings in the master coil.
I tried a few different ways of connecting them, but this seems to work
the best right now. My SRC is latching at higher RPMs so I have to put
a pretty heavy load on the wheel to slow it down. I am surprised on how
much this little wheel takes to slow it down. I plan to put a small generator
on it as a load soon, but need to address some other things first.
Also as John K. suggested to move the coils futher away. I will add a 10mm
spacer under the wheel supports to start.
I did adjust the slave coils out and in some. Left slave out, right slave in
just a couple mm's and the hall needs to be just inside the trigger range
for it to self start. As soon as it kicks on, in the reverse dirrection, it will be
out of range and the slave coils kick it into forward.
The hall is also just at the top of the passing magnets. Not in the middle.

Here is a video of the GT3 self starting.

YouTube - BT3 v2 18

Mark

[Web000x]

Hello every one,
I have been unable to post lately, due to work. It seems to allways get
in the way.
I did adjust a few small things. First I am running all the windings in
parallel. Thats the two slaves and the four windings in the master coil.
I tried a few different ways of connecting them, but this seems to work
the best right now. My SRC is latching at higher RPMs so I have to put
a pretty heavy load on the wheel to slow it down. I am surprised on how
much this little wheel takes to slow it down. I plan to put a small generator
on it as a load soon, but need to address some other things first.
Also as John K. suggested to move the coils futher away. I will add a 10mm
spacer under the wheel supports to start.
I did adjust the slave coils out and in some. Left slave out, right slave in
just a couple mm's and the hall needs to be just inside the trigger range
for it to self start. As soon as it kicks on, in the reverse dirrection, it will be
out of range and the slave coils kick it into forward.
The hall is also just at the top of the passing magnets. Not in the middle.

Here is a video of the GT3 self starting.

YouTube - BT3 v2 18

Mark

Hey Mark,

I'm a bit confused by your video. How were you able to flip your switch and cause the wheel to spin clockwise for a brief moment and then take off counter clockwise? It didn't look like it was slamming into any magnetic fields. It looked like a repulsion then attraction.

Do you have your slaves in attraction and the main coil in repulsion or visa versa?

You say that you have your coil wires in parallel. Are you running separate transistor pairs for each power strand?

Dave

[Ecancanvas]

Back to the gargage

Thanks everyone for your ideas its back to the garage
ED