Bedini Ferris Wheel Regauging Motor

[Rl2003]

Schematic change

Mark, Thanks man. I pulled that schematic and will study it. I need to go back thru and find the listing for the Hall sensor and the LED's since those aren't called out explicitly on the schematic. I know they're on the thread here somewhere. It looks like all the other components are detailed in that schemo from John K. (Thanks John K.!)


One small change Gene, flip the two LED's around. That worked for me.



I wonder if the Ferris wheel can be done on a 6 inch all north out rotor? I don't have the means to build such a large diameter wheel as yet..(money reasons) It might be interesting if one could make an aluminum rotor with space cutout behind the ceramic slot for a neo to be fitted in. I wonder what the sine would look like in that case off the rotor at speed...

Anyways thanks again.
Gene

Like John has said "this needs to be on a larger scale", or more weigth than a
bike wheel. This needs momentuim to work with. I will be adding some thing
to my wheel, I just haven't done it.
Power and Phone company's give away those big spools. I bevieve they would
work for someone on a limited buget. Just take off one side and use that. You could make two.
Every one needs to build this, it doesn't have to be costly. Just build it..

Mark

[Rl2003]

@ Mark
I do not know if you are using the Zenier,Capacitor,LED dump or not. If you are I have been able to change the Zenier combo and get it close to the charge battery voltage in combo with the LED (2.4 to 3volt LED) and then tune your Capacitance from there. I have used 4.7V Zeniers in series with others and the LED and get it real close. Retard your timing and you may find a sweet spot. Don't know if this helps or not but thought I would put info out there...

Chuck,

Thanks for the suggestions. Yes, I am using this combination of Zen/Led/Cap dump.
I was thinking that I needed to replace the Zen. I did replace the LEDs
but left the Zen alone. I am still not 100% on this combo as it is new to me.
I have a 1n4731 4.3v in there now, that was what I had at the moment. I got
some other 1n4733 5.1 v to try and ordered some others to have on hand.
I am not sure of the LED's Voltage, they are Super Bright LED's I got last year.
I will try a couple different combos.
I also am waiting for some parts to try the Mosfet/Opto/Zen package deal.
I didn't have any Sidactors, it looks like protection for the opto??

As far as Retarding the timing it seems that makes the amp draw higher on the
primarys. And then the transistors heat up. Advancing brings it down to a low
of about 150-300 ma. Hall firing closer to TDC(advancing) further away (retarding).
Are we on the same page??

Mark

[genessc]

Mark, Thanks man. I pulled that schematic and will study it. I need to go back thru and find the listing for the Hall sensor and the LED's since those aren't called out explicitly on the schematic. I know they're on the thread here somewhere. It looks like all the other components are detailed in that schemo from John K. (Thanks John K.!)

As regards magnets, Ceramics have a less dense field but a greater reach to their field than the neo magnets do. Neos seem to have a greater density but also a more compacted field set. Theres a book that beardens company publishes that is a reprint of Howard Johnsons magnetic field plotting work that might be useful as it shows how the fields look on various types of magnets. Samarium cobalt magnets appear to be sort of a cross in that they have a stronger field than ceramics, but also have a larger field reach than neos...

I wonder if the Ferris wheel can be done on a 6 inch all north out rotor? I don't have the means to build such a large diameter wheel as yet..(money reasons) It might be interesting if one could make an aluminum rotor with space cutout behind the ceramic slot for a neo to be fitted in. I wonder what the sine would look like in that case off the rotor at speed...

Anyways thanks again.
Gene

Gene, Check pg. 28 post 828. Thats what I am working with right now.
And there has been several Schematics shared. Pick one...

Every one else,
I do have this self starting, But it was running to fast.
So I moved the coils further from the magnets and re-tuned it. I over heated
the transistors and replaced them. Now it does not start as well. I did get the cap to dump better,
but it is tricky to get every thing right.
I have tried many different sized caps, but when you adjust the timing a
different size cap is needed to pick the charging back up.
The more I change things around it seems the futher I get from being right.
So I will go back and set it up from the begining. I does seem to charge better with the coils further away.
It seems the stronger part of the field is not close to the magnets.
Something else to concider.

Mark

[John_K]

b

Hi Chuck,

When you say to retard the the timing, do you mean to adjust the timing so that the main coil fires before or after TDC? I will test both ways, but just wanted to clarify that.

John also mentioned that to me, but I haven't been able to test this yet because I let the smoke out of the parts.


John K.

@ Mark
I do not know if you are using the Zenier,Capacitor,LED dump or not. If you are I have been able to change the Zenier combo and get it close to the charge battery voltage in combo with the LED (2.4 to 3volt LED) and then tune your Capacitance from there. I have used 4.7V Zeniers in series with others and the LED and get it real close. Retard your timing and you may find a sweet spot. Don't know if this helps or not but thought I would put info out there...

[John_K]

Bedini S1GT

Hi Erik,

Your English is great, no problem understanding your question.

Currently, I'm testing some things out with a solid state version until my parts arrive. But when they do I will experiment with the shield as you suggested on the rotor version.

I will also experiment with the way John B has his setup for the Northern hemisphere, just to see what difference it does make.

All the best with your build.


John K.

Hello everybody,
I'm just a humble soul from Norway, watching all the fantastic knowledge and great spirit here in this thread. I have read them all,(1137 postings) multiple times, and seen as many videos, related to the subject, that my time will allow.
I'm about to start building a 1/3 scale Bedini Ferris wheel for myself. And I want you all to know what great inspiration you all are giving out! You have really got me using my brain!
Special thanks to Mr John Bedini!

I have one question for John_K, seeing your build, great work by the way, but thinking, you are in the southern hemisfere. And if you think about shaping magnetfields, we know you have your coils "upside down" and it works great.

But, would I be way off thinking you should have your magnetshield upside down too? Attached to where your core sticks out of the bottom, pointing downwards. Only then are you truly shielding "one" pole.

Or maybe building everything the "right way" and instead using south poles on the wheel and let it spin clockwise. Ofcource adjusting slave coils accordingly to have the right timing.

I'm probably way off, but just needed to get that off my mind ;-)

My english is not the best, but i hope you understand.

Best regards from Norway

Erik

[erikbuch]

Hello everybody,
I'm just a humble soul from Norway, watching all the fantastic knowledge and great spirit here in this thread. I have read them all,(1137 postings) multiple times, and seen as many videos, related to the subject, that my time will allow.
I'm about to start building a 1/3 scale Bedini Ferris wheel for myself. And I want you all to know what great inspiration you all are giving out! You have really got me using my brain!
Special thanks to Mr John Bedini!

I have one question for John_K, seeing your build, great work by the way, but thinking, you are in the southern hemisfere. And if you think about shaping magnetfields, we know you have your coils "upside down" and it works great.

But, would I be way off thinking you should have your magnetshield upside down too? Attached to where your core sticks out of the bottom, pointing downwards. Only then are you truly shielding "one" pole.

Or maybe building everything the "right way" and instead using south poles on the wheel and let it spin clockwise. Ofcource adjusting slave coils accordingly to have the right timing.

I'm probably way off, but just needed to get that off my mind ;-)

My english is not the best, but i hope you understand.

Best regards from Norway

Erik

[chuck H]

Cap dump

@ Mark
I do not know if you are using the Zenier,Capacitor,LED dump or not. If you are I have been able to change the Zenier combo and get it close to the charge battery voltage in combo with the LED (2.4 to 3volt LED) and then tune your Capacitance from there. I have used 4.7V Zeniers in series with others and the LED and get it real close. Retard your timing and you may find a sweet spot. Don't know if this helps or not but thought I would put info out there...

[Rl2003]

It sorta sounds like you're way off. From the limited info shared, John B noted to put all windings in parallel.

What I took that to mean was to take the two slave coils windings and put them in parallel with the drive coils trigger winding.

Considering there hasn't been a schematic assembled and shared for review, I'm not sure its clear the right way to wire things. RS has shared a schematic but not sure if thats the same as the Ferris Wheel setup.

Some sort of schematic would go a long way to align everyones idea of how this is supposed to work. Whomever has the youtube vid up showing the bicycle wheel rotor kicking back then sliding forward and starting to run, looks to have the circuit sorted out properly. (or at least enough to get it to run, if its running properly is as yet unknown, but it is running.) I'd posted a comment on that vid asking for a link to the schematic but nothings been updated as yet.

Hopefully someone thats got a working replica can take a stab at the schemo and we can all then discuss and work to replicate based on the proper roadmap.

Take care,
Gene

Gene, Check pg. 28 post 828. Thats what I am working with right now.
And there has been several Schematics shared. Pick one...

Every one else,
I do have this self starting, But it was running to fast.
So I moved the coils further from the magnets and re-tuned it. I over heated
the transistors and replaced them. Now it does not start as well. I did get the cap to dump better,
but it is tricky to get every thing right.
I have tried many different sized caps, but when you adjust the timing a
different size cap is needed to pick the charging back up.
The more I change things around it seems the futher I get from being right.
So I will go back and set it up from the begining. I does seem to charge better with the coils further away.
It seems the stronger part of the field is not close to the magnets.
Something else to concider.

Mark

[genessc]

It sorta sounds like you're way off. From the limited info shared, John B noted to put all windings in parallel.

What I took that to mean was to take the two slave coils windings and put them in parallel with the drive coils trigger winding.

Considering there hasn't been a schematic assembled and shared for review, I'm not sure its clear the right way to wire things. RS has shared a schematic but not sure if thats the same as the Ferris Wheel setup.

Some sort of schematic would go a long way to align everyones idea of how this is supposed to work. Whomever has the youtube vid up showing the bicycle wheel rotor kicking back then sliding forward and starting to run, looks to have the circuit sorted out properly. (or at least enough to get it to run, if its running properly is as yet unknown, but it is running.) I'd posted a comment on that vid asking for a link to the schematic but nothings been updated as yet.

Hopefully someone thats got a working replica can take a stab at the schemo and we can all then discuss and work to replicate based on the proper roadmap.

Take care,
Gene

i thought you were just suposed to "close the loop" on the control windings and the induced current generates the mag amp effect? or am i way off...?

dave

[phishy]

I tried a separate winding of 27# wire, 2 layers right on the main core. Than I wound the drive winding over it till the bobbin was full.
I used a resistor, pot voltage divider to supply from 0-5V dc to the small coil. I also use different amount of supplied currents. The coil was wound the same direction as the main coil.
Vissie

i thought you were just suposed to "close the loop" on the control windings and the induced current generates the mag amp effect? or am i way off...?

dave

[genessc]

Excellent Ed. Glad that worked for you!

Gene

genessc, Your suggestion worked. I tried about 10 different sizes of caps, found by reducing from 10000uf to 470-1000 that the mosfet started cycling and charging battery without slowing rotor or adding amp draw on primary.
Thanks again
ED

[BrentA929]

Spools

John B,

Thanks for the heads up!


Brent

Brent,
The only thing that you will find is a step under the circle you cut out.
You will half to make shorter rods for that glue them in first.

Then cut all the other rods for the full length, that rod is fine RG60.
Try to get them as straight as you can, glue them one at a time if need be. Also try not to cut the step out or you will break the bobbin, and that will be a tough one to fix.
John B

[John_Bedini]

Bedini GT3

Brent,
The only thing that you will find is a step under the circle you cut out.
You will half to make shorter rods for that glue them in first.

Then cut all the other rods for the full length, that rod is fine RG60.
Try to get them as straight as you can, glue them one at a time if need be. Also try not to cut the step out or you will break the bobbin, and that will be a tough one to fix.
John B

[Mr.Whip]

Pic

Hello John K , FRC and Fausto Thanks for the info. In post 944 David posted he was using a 16F690 . He has giving me his code and it looks like it will work with a little mode help from him.

Better controll of the timing dwell and duty cycle control is my goal also.
Back too rereading and taking more notes for now. Seems I misssed a lot of info the first 2 times I read them all I also watch John B's video's (Energy from the Vacuum series) 2 or 3 times in a row lol.

Thankyou everyone
Randy

[BrentA929]

Center coil core

John B,

Thanks for taking a look! And yes, we are going to cut a 3" diameter hole in the flanges for the welding rods.

Since you bring it up...and since we have never cut a spool up like this before. What kinds of things can we expect to run into when we do this? Are we going to destroy the structural integrity of the spool when we do this?

Also, I remember you saying that the welding rods have changed some in the material make-up. Do you still recommend the RG60 1/16" for this build? Any recommendations on securing the rods inside the spools?


Thanks as always!!!

Brent

Brent,
That coil is looking good, are you going to cut out the center hole for the welding rods, I did mine first so I could reinforce the spool. Your coil impedance looks to be about right. Sorry, got real busy at work but then discovered I left my computer on. My cable is intermittent here at home right now. But that coil is looking real good.
John B