Bedini Solid State Oscillators

[theremart]

Ok.... Diode

Hi Theremart,
the diode on the 555 is in parallel to R2 between Pin 6 and 7, the strip to the Pin 6 side

So you are not changing anything in the circuit, but adding this inline if I understand you. Not replacing any leads, but adding this to the circuit.

Do I understand you correctly?

I really think my circuit needs this to slow down the firing.

[theremart]

RE: solar charging

Someone mentioned that the source battery could be a 12V solar panel. Has anyone experimented with one or has opinions?

Also, is it possible to modify the circuit that prevents overcharging the battery; like this circuit does?
Automatic 12V Lead Acid Battery Charger

There is a thread on this topic here...

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/2136-solar-bedini-sg.html

The first post in the thread gives Bedini's advice.

What I have done in my solar charging is use a very low wattage solar panel -15 W to charge a battery up to full charge then I use this on the Bedini. I am not worried about a 15 W solar panel cooking my semi batteries. The better way to go is a controller at least in my experience for large solar panels so you can set it and forget it. But I monitor my solar panels every day and as soon as one battery is charged I yank it off and put it on to charge other batteries with the Bedini. I don't have my SS fully working to full speed yet, but it is getting there at last.

Renaissance Charge - Intelligent Solutions to Premature Battery Failure has a solar charger in development for some time now, but I don't know how long it will be till it comes on the market.

Also this group is VERY into solar charging and using wind for power, very creative group.

gotwind.org FORUM - Click here to post comments/questions - Powered by ForumCo.com - The Forum Company

Cheers !

[Filibuster]

diode

Hi Theremart,
the diode on the 555 is in parallel to R2 between Pin 6 and 7, the strip to the Pin 6 side

[cowboyrx]

Someone mentioned that the source battery could be a 12V solar panel. Has anyone experimented with one or has opinions?

Also, is it possible to modify the circuit that prevents overcharging the battery; like this circuit does?
Automatic 12V Lead Acid Battery Charger

[Filibuster]

[theremart]

I must agree with Clive... the right amount of amps is critical.

Amps is where it is at for larger batteries. Note the battery charger sold by Renaissance battery Renaissance Charge - Intelligent Solutions to Premature Battery Failure uses 20V 2 amps.... you can see their manual online.

Today I am VERY happy that my load test returned tests BETTER than a new battery. 4.75 amps hours from 13.3 V down to 12.5. I am comparing to the charts that the web site has for my battery.




I have compared these to the new battery and it load tests better than new.


So for review, after charging with solid state the battery may climb to a higher voltage than what you are familiar with.

After that it settled down to about a volt over where it normally is.


The solid state did give me good amps after I allowed it to charge the battery up to 16.34V. ( my 12 amp hour battery ) NOTE the manual spec says to goto 13.99 V, thus this is why I was not getting any amp hours out of the battery.

But so far the best results have been from my multi coiler 6 transistor that have given me the results in this load test. AT LAST! my used battery is showing me something substantial. The others are also showing the same signs...

[Hoppy]

Hi,

I am trying to charge a 66 AH car battery with another 2 car batteries on the primary. (24.1 Volts, 130 milli Amps on primary circuit). My secondary voltage is not going beyond 12.1 Volts. I tried before with 12.4 volts on the primary, but without success.

Hi Filibuster,

I've spent the last two years building Bedini electro-mechanical and solid state oscillators, so I may be able to offer you some help. A current of 130mA on the primary is woefully inadequate to charge a car battery in a paractical timescale. You will charge it to a point but it will plateau out well before reaching a fully charged voltage of 15V plus.

When Bedini talks about low current charging, he is referring to the charging current, not the primary supply current. The differential is around 3 - 4 parts supply current to 1 part charging current as measured with an analogue ammeter. You will need at least 0.5 Amps charging current to do any serious charging on a car battery and this means over 2 Amps on the primary.The minimum charging current or 'trigger current' as JB refers to it as, is the amount of current that can push the battery up to over 15V. This current may be lower than 2 Amps on the primary but it will depend on the condition of the battery. The more conditioned a battery becomes through repeated cycling, the lower the current needed to push it up over 15V. Your energiser therefore needs to have the power to condition a battery from the start. Although I have described an SG type setup,your solid state cap pulser will still need to output the same average level of current into your battery. The 'dump' frequency needs to suit the particular battery you are using, so as to optimise charge rate.

I suggest your solid state energiser uses an MJL21194 transistor with a 100' three strand (trifilar) 18awg / 19swg ECW coil. This will give you sufficient power to condition / charge a car battery in a reasonable timescale from the off. You can back off the drive current progressively as your battery becomes conditioned.

The conditioning process is achieved by many charge / discharge cycles which gradually remove sulfation deposits and reduce the internal resistance of the battery, allowing the battery to absorb more energy, thus increasing its capacity. This is where Bedini claims the gain is achieved - 'more out than in'.

Hope this helps.

Regards
Clive

[Filibuster]

[theremart]

Kool better results...

I have found if I let the battery charge to a higher voltage I am getting more amp hours out of the battery. The small line is was charged to 15.34, The second to 16.36V. 3.2 amp hours is a big improvement over 1 amp hour. This time I used a battery that was not charged on the multi-coiler but only on the SS, I simply allowed it to charge up to a higher voltage.

[theremart]

Per the manufacture of my battery.

It should only charge 14 - 14.9 V. I am going up to 16.34!

http://www.upgi.com/specs/D5744.pdf

[theremart]

RE: cap charging.

The cap pulse charging circuit is interesting, because there is a period of time when the HV pulses are bypassing the capacitor and going directly to the battery.

When the 555 output is low, the capacitor is charging. When the 555 is high, the capacitor discharges, but in my experience, multiple pulses are still occurring in the Solid State setup while the 555 is high, so those pulses go to the battery too.

I mentioned on the monopole3 group that you could put a diode between pins 7 and 6 (on the 555) and cause that "ON" pulse to be greatly diminished, (which allows the cap to charge faster because the on time is so small) but was quickly hammered (in a private email) by the moderator saying that I was possibly infringing on the patent, which is absurd, since I didn't describe the circuit at all. I keep wondering why, why did I get hammered by suggesting that?

Anyway, maybe those pulses are necessary as they are HV with little current and that helps the battery charge after the inrush of current from the capacitor.

Basically the capacitor discharge is a standard current charge to the battery, but the HV will sneak in there too, which makes this system different than normal pulse charging systems.

Are you guys using new batteries when charging? They recommend brand new batteries for this testing. Old batteries have to be de-sulphated before they will begin to hold a charge properly.

Ok if I understand you correctly the connection coming off 7 you put a diode, do you put the stripe near 7 or near 7 or near 6? You are saying replace the wire now coming off 7 with a diode right? Or... are you adding the diode in with the present circuit?

I also had bad experience on the Monopole 3 group. I found the moderators there to be very rude. So much unlike this forum.

I am not using brand new batteries, however, I have tested these used batteries and have computer generated charts of how they perform. Any variation of performance, and I can see it. I did start with brand new batteries when I built my first school girl motor, and I have a base line of what a good charger is.

Thank you for sharing your input on the Solid State Bedini, I am trying to tune mine in, I am thinking now looking at my last data, I have not let it charge up enough, simply needs more time on the charger with a little more current.

Cheers

[theremart]

More load testing results...

Last night I took the battery that the Solid State had charged and put it on my 6 transistor monopole energizer. Below are the charging and discharge results, input power to monopole was 20V 2 amp. Very nice to see this battery performing back near where it was to 3.2 amp hours before it hits 12.5. So... this leads me to believe the Solid State needs to charge the battery to a higher voltage? The Monopole sure shot the voltage up mid point I started at 1 amp then switched to 2 amp input.

I was shocked to see the voltage climb to 16.34V.


The question in my mind is where does one stop with the charging... It seems the rules have changed for top voltage. I do remember that Bedini charged the 24V batteries on his BIG batteries to way over 24V...

[ldissing]

Cap pulser ciruit and charging

The cap pulse charging circuit is interesting, because there is a period of time when the HV pulses are bypassing the capacitor and going directly to the battery.

When the 555 output is low, the capacitor is charging. When the 555 is high, the capacitor discharges, but in my experience, multiple pulses are still occurring in the Solid State setup while the 555 is high, so those pulses go to the battery too.

I mentioned on the monopole3 group that you could put a diode between pins 7 and 6 (on the 555) and cause that "ON" pulse to be greatly diminished, (which allows the cap to charge faster because the on time is so small) but was quickly hammered (in a private email) by the moderator saying that I was possibly infringing on the patent, which is absurd, since I didn't describe the circuit at all. I keep wondering why, why did I get hammered by suggesting that?

Anyway, maybe those pulses are necessary as they are HV with little current and that helps the battery charge after the inrush of current from the capacitor.

Basically the capacitor discharge is a standard current charge to the battery, but the HV will sneak in there too, which makes this system different than normal pulse charging systems.

Are you guys using new batteries when charging? They recommend brand new batteries for this testing. Old batteries have to be de-sulphated before they will begin to hold a charge properly.

[theremart]

RE: Load tests....

I have been thinking about my load tests, I went back and looked at others who have run load tests and I have found they have run the battery down to 10.5 volts, John Bedini included on the test on his web page he runs the battery down to 10 V. I have only been going down to 12.5V

I have run 2 test at .4V and .6 V I am still getting the same amp hours out of the batteries going down to 12.5V.

Now that I go back and look at my old test with the Neo SSG, I am impressed that I got 4 amp hours out of the battery from 13.32 V down to 12.5 V. But I am saddened that somehow I have lost this capacity of this battery.

So... Perhaps what I should be doing is load testing down to 10 V and cyclying this way.....


From



--------------------------------------

BATTERY TEST SEQUENCE:

One lead acid gel-cell (12 volts, 450 milliamps) is being utilized as the primary source fully charged at 12.5 volts

Three (3) lead acid gel-cell batteries (12 volt, 450 milliamps) strapped in parallel are being used as the charge destination. The batteries are discharged to 10 volts for the test purposes.

Test #1 starts at 10:45 AM utilizing primary battery fully charged at 12.5 volts charging three (3) destination batteries paralleled. The destination batteries reach a charge capacity of 14 volts at 11:20 AM.

The destination batteries are then discharged to 10 volts under working load to prepare for Test #2.

Test #2 starts at 11:25 AM utilizing primary battery measured at 11.5 volts. Charging three (3) destination batteries paralleled. The destination batteries reach a charge capacity of 14 volts at 12:50 PM.

The destination batteries are then discharged to 10 volts under working load to prepare for Test #3.

Test #3 starts at 1:00 PM utilizing primary battery measured at 10.5 volts. Charging three (3) destination batteries paralleled. The destination batteries reach a charge capacity of 14 volts at 1:40 PM.

The destination batteries are then discharged to 10 volts under working load to prepare for Test #4.

Test #4 starts at 2:05 PM utilizing primary battery measured at 9.5 volts. Charging three (3) destination batteries paralleled. The destination batteries reach a charge capacity of 13 volts at 2:40 PM. The primary battery is now discharged to 9 volts under working load and unable to further run the

TOTAL BATTERIES CHARGED:

12 lead acid gel-cell batteries (12 volts, 450 milliamps each). This ratio is a 12 to 1 charging factor. The motor operation (work) being performed as this was done is not included as an additional factor in this test.

--------------------------------------------

[theremart]

RE: charging

Hi All,


I have 2 battery always getting warm after about 4 hours on charging with my SS.
The voltage can raise up to 13.6 V (on charging). but when I try keep charge the voltage will drop slowly. I have try to stop the charging for few hours then charge again but seem the battery condition still a same (won't hold the charging for long period). both battery already try more than 10 cycle with same result.

This only happen with this 2 battery, the other can charge up to 14.9 V (on charging) and the condition getting better.

Anyone have same experience with this? or maybe any advice for me?

Thanks
Selamatg

I have never had the battery get warm when charging. What is the amp hours on the batteries you have?

I cannot give much advice as I have not had much sucess with this yet.