Captret - Perpetual Light with Dead Batteries

[Jbignes5]

I think it has to do with..

I have seen an 80 millivolt increase in standing voltage since i started playing with this setup. Been trying different configurations over the last 24 hours with the same 9v battery. Even if the battery didn't charge, you have to wonder why it wont discharge while it produces light.

Through induction we are setting up a standard voltage. This induction is different for each plate of the cap because one is being induced through each plate going twords the negative instead of the regular way of plate to plate. This allows the positive of the cap to operate normally and induces a lower voltage to the negative plate also. When we have the led across the positive plate and negative a current is drawn between the two points of positive to negative plate via the led which is of course a diode. this allows the current to circulate in the small area of the plates and diode and not through the battery.

My new test setup is with a pair of caps in parallel to each other. The effect is much stronger and allows the led to full brightness with almost no current being drawn. I am about to do a test for the current.

Ok this is what I got so far. 3.3ma current that was measured on both terminals of the battery. For the double cap setup in pair the draw is a little over the 2.3 ma I had with one. I moved back to the 470uf caps of 200v. The current draw from the battery I believe is from leaky caps. If I put more leds on the cap like normal it does not change the current draw and thats why I assume it is of a leaky cap that the current is even there. If they were perfect caps I bet there would be zero loss in this circuit.

The one thing that sticks in my mind is that the leds work no matter how many you put on. I'm gonna try with a bunch of them in parallel and see if the current rises a bit.

Ok went from 3 to 5 and it reduces the current to 3.2ma with the dual cap in parallel. *Scratches head* this doesn't make sense at all......

[Zooty]

After running till this morning the unit only managed to get to 10.16 volts. So this supports my earlier assumption that it will not recharge the battery but it doesn't discharge the battery beyond the filling of the cap.

So that was with a 470uf 200v cap. I am now switching to a 220uf cap @ 200v to see if the run nets a charge. Again the battery started at 10.19 volts and is running 2 leds in parallel. I will give it half an hour to an hour to equalize and measure the voltage again. After some run time I'll try the current measurement as well to see if the leakage went down..

I have seen an 80 millivolt increase in standing voltage since i started playing with this setup. Been trying different configurations over the last 24 hours with the same 9v battery. Even if the battery didn't charge, you have to wonder why it wont discharge while it produces light.

[Zooty]

Try This

This is what i was trying to describe. Maybe more Captrets can be added for better effect. Voltage still climbing and LED is brighter than before.

[Jbignes5]

Status update:

After running till this morning the unit only managed to get to 10.16 volts. So this supports my earlier assumption that it will not recharge the battery but it doesn't discharge the battery beyond the filling of the cap.

So that was with a 470uf 200v cap. I am now switching to a 220uf cap @ 200v to see if the run nets a charge. Again the battery started at 10.19 volts and is running 2 leds in parallel. I will give it half an hour to an hour to equalize and measure the voltage again. After some run time I'll try the current measurement as well to see if the leakage went down..

[ibpointless2]

@ everyone


Lets not forget the simple things that make the captret special.

When you supply a normal load to a normal circuit the load will drain the battery and keep draining it, the captret has a voltage drop but climbs back up.

if You put a capacitor in series with a LED the capacitor would fill up and the LED would go out because a full capacitor makes a open circuit.

The captret effect can give you two lights with the price of one charge, where normally we would only get one light for one charge.

Its also to note the captret likes to be pulsed.

Letting the captret sit for awhile after use will "self charge" it self back to normal to give you full power back.

Using high Farad caps take the LED awhile to turn on, but it will last for a long time even when the battery is taken off.

Dead batteries seem to work the best. Using dead batteries keep them out of the land fills and gives more bang for the buck. They call it Pre-cycling.


Thank you to all, and keep experimenting.

[Zooty]

The degrade over time is normal, i see it all the time with my LED's. But the good news is if you let the captret sit it will "self charge" back to normal and bring full power back. Its like humans needing sleep.

Great work so far, please keep us posted! Due you have the exact diagram of you setup i would love to replicate it.

Also I've posted a new diagram of the captret that can hold off the decay for a little longer, or at least it hold the LED for brighter longer, and gives a good feedback for recovering the primary battery. On this setup my battery went from 17.10 to 17.14 using a small 1uF 400 volt cap. I suggest using a 47uF or 220 uF as this is what other are saying works best. Usually when i leave the captret running on that small of a capacitor the LED is barely noticeable but today its light is nice and noticeable.


[ATTACH]6899[/ATTACH]

I just done something similar as you posted If you put another cap in place of the led, positive of cap where the positive of the led would be, then the positive of the led to the first cap's can and the negative of the led to the second cap's can, the led is much brighter. The battery voltage dips at first but then it starts coming back up. Still monitoring the voltages.

[ibpointless2]

Hello all. Very interesting this Captret effect.

I made a quick video - Captret w bedini by thedude . Sorry for poor resolution and quiet audio, did the best i could with camera i have at the moment.

I decided to hook up the input of a captret setup to my input on a bedini self oscillating circuit. My bedini self oscillators use very little current but will normally draw around .3 amps to light a 20 watt cfl bulb quite brightly, while charging a secondary battery quickly.

I don't know exactly what to make of it yet as i just set it up and have not really done much experimentation just yet. However i thought it would be fun to make a video and contribute to this line of experimentation however i could.

Set up in this fashion I am registering no amperage draw on my primary input battery at all. Zero. I need more sensitive readings. In the video the voltage drops by 1/10 of a volt but if you watch it recovers that later in the video as it runs.

I show some scope shots and actually drive the cfl bulb, albeit not very brightly. I'm now testing with a few different Caps and finding they each generate distinct wave forms. I know that it is way to early do declare anything at all yet. Thats about all i have to show for now. I will continue to try and make some more use of this capacitor/transistor we call the Captret. Its so simple, you gotta love it.

Is really hard to determine why but i am observing a slow decay in the amount of current that is feeding into the primary input. It seems to degrade somewhat as it runs, however if i shut it off and leave it for a wee bit it will fire up full power again. Its as though the cap is charging up and discharging, but i have yet to comprehend the mechanics of this process. Has anyone else observed that the caps don't alway retain their ability to translate current as well over time? This still doesn't seem to reflect any change in the charge on the batteries at all. Might be related to my application of it, there are radiant spikes occurring in my circuit. More testing will explain better.

Edit- oddly i am now using a 200v 22uf capacitor that seems to be holding while using 2 radio shack 12volt encased red leds . this set up is pulsing a 6volt spike on my oscilloscope for about 3 hours now with out any draw or decrease in voltage on the primary or secondary batteries. The LEDs are strobing away. I have nearly been able to run a 12 volt cpu fan but falls short of starting up fully. will try a 5 volt fan if i can find one laying around.


Here is the video.

The degrade over time is normal, i see it all the time with my LED's. But the good news is if you let the captret sit it will "self charge" back to normal and bring full power back. Its like humans needing sleep.

Great work so far, please keep us posted! Due you have the exact diagram of you setup i would love to replicate it.

Also I've posted a new diagram of the captret that can hold off the decay for a little longer, or at least it hold the LED for brighter longer, and gives a good feedback for recovering the primary battery. On this setup my battery went from 17.10 to 17.14 using a small 1uF 400 volt cap. I suggest using a 47uF or 220 uF as this is what other are saying works best. Usually when i leave the captret running on that small of a capacitor the LED is barely noticeable but today its light is nice and noticeable.

Pure potential at work?

Ibpointless2,

I am pleased to report the following:

I prepared the first available (totally random) capacitor as per your specifications.

Attached a 150mAh nickel metal hydride 9v rechargeable (The battery was previously discharged by powering a multimeter.) and an led as per your specification.

The led lit and the battery voltage went from 6.5 to 7 in just a minuet or two.

Cool.

I removed the battery from another multimeter and attached the battery clip in place of the led.

The meter came on and the battery voltage continued to increase as it powered a multimeter.

It's been going a half hour or so and the battery voltage has leveled off and is holding at 8.28v and the multimeter is still on.

Haha

You're the man!

Simply amazing!

[sigzidfit]

Ibpointless2,

I am pleased to report the following:

I prepared the first available (totally random) capacitor as per your specifications.

Attached a 150mAh nickel metal hydride 9v rechargeable (The battery was previously discharged by powering a multimeter.) and an led as per your specification.

The led lit and the battery voltage went from 6.5 to 7 in just a minuet or two.

Cool.

I removed the battery from another multimeter and attached the battery clip in place of the led.

The meter came on and the battery voltage continued to increase as it powered a multimeter.

It's been going a half hour or so and the battery voltage has leveled off and is holding at 8.28v and the multimeter is still on.

Haha

You're the man!

[thedude]

Hello all. Very interesting this Captret effect.

I made a quick video - Captret w bedini by thedude . Sorry for poor resolution and quiet audio, did the best i could with camera i have at the moment.

I decided to hook up the input of a captret setup to my input on a bedini self oscillating circuit. My bedini self oscillators use very little current but will normally draw around .3 amps to light a 20 watt cfl bulb quite brightly, while charging a secondary battery quickly.

I don't know exactly what to make of it yet as i just set it up and have not really done much experimentation just yet. However i thought it would be fun to make a video and contribute to this line of experimentation however i could.

Set up in this fashion I am registering no amperage draw on my primary input battery at all. Zero. I need more sensitive readings. In the video the voltage drops by 1/10 of a volt but if you watch it recovers that later in the video as it runs.

I show some scope shots and actually drive the cfl bulb, albeit not very brightly. I'm now testing with a few different Caps and finding they each generate distinct wave forms. I know that it is way to early do declare anything at all yet. Thats about all i have to show for now. I will continue to try and make some more use of this capacitor/transistor we call the Captret. Its so simple, you gotta love it.

Is really hard to determine why but i am observing a slow decay in the amount of current that is feeding into the primary input. It seems to degrade somewhat as it runs, however if i shut it off and leave it for a wee bit it will fire up full power again. Its as though the cap is charging up and discharging, but i have yet to comprehend the mechanics of this process. Has anyone else observed that the caps don't alway retain their ability to translate current as well over time? This still doesn't seem to reflect any change in the charge on the batteries at all. Might be related to my application of it, there are radiant spikes occurring in my circuit. More testing will explain better.

Edit- oddly i am now using a 200v 22uf capacitor that seems to be holding while using 2 radio shack 12volt encased red leds . this set up is pulsing a 6volt spike on my oscilloscope for about 3 hours now with out any draw or decrease in voltage on the primary or secondary batteries. The LEDs are strobing away. I have nearly been able to run a 12 volt cpu fan but falls short of starting up fully. will try a 5 volt fan if i can find one laying around.


Here is the video.

[Jbignes5]

Very low leakage...

what difference would tantalum cap make? from reading the link they sound more dangerous.

They have very low leakage but I have yet to find something that isn't designed for the aerospace program rofl... I have seen can versions of the Tantalum caps but they appear to be phasing them out for some reason. Most are ceramic or dipped or even chip version that are very low voltage like 4-5 volts at most. So we might be stuck with loosing little bits of charge creating leakage and wasted energy but then again I am only leaking 2.3 ma.... with 3 leds so thats about as low as we can get it unless someone figures out some other method to do the same process as is going on in the caps we do have.

As far as I can tell we are creating a circular flow between the two real plates in the cap by virtue of the can.
............._______
.7v(+)...-...........|-----10v(-)
.10v(+).-...........|
.............--------

I'm sorry for the bad ansi graphics. We have the led running from the poles from the left. The potential is 7v roughly that is getting induced through the can shell into the neg of the cap which in this drawing is the top left pole. The positive of the cap is the bottom left 10v which is connected to the battery's positive so this stays constant and rejects by static induction the 10v from the plate. Remember that if you bring a negative charged object closer to a body of conducting material it will induce the opposite polarity. So the positive repells the induction by keeping it's polarity from the battery and the negative of the cap is only connected to the led. This causes the led to run for nothing but the leakage current through the caps case and neg plate. Prolly around 3v is wasted in the induction process with about 2 ma of current passing and negating 3 volts of potential.

I believe you found a way to run low voltage applications for literally nothing but the cost of leakage of that device. The led runs off of the difference of potential between both terminals for free. How that flow looks I can't tell you but what I can say is that you found the way I have been describing for a long time now just using the potential of a source only and not it's current. Where that current is coming from I can't say for now...

As for the battery charging I have some thoughts on that and am waiting for a run overnight to see if it will raise above the starting voltage of the battery I have which was 10.2 volts. If it goes beyond that voltage by a single volt I will admit that it is in fact charging but I have not seen anything above the starting voltage yet. It is climbing back up but that might be normal when the cap fills up with potential and then after it doesn't need anymore it relaxes and regenerates. If it goes above the 10.2 like I said I will fully admit to it charging and then we can work on why that would be... For now I am still testing the setup... I'll let it sit overnight....

Right now after changing batteries it is at 10.14 so .06 to go. I doubt it will go above that but who knows..

[ibpointless2]

Check this link out:

Electrolytic capacitor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So what we need is a Tantalum capacitor and check that since I think we all have aluminum.. If not then let me know because I have an aluminum one.

what difference would tantalum cap make? from reading the link they sound more dangerous.

[Jbignes5]

Ok after some research...

Check this link out:

Electrolytic capacitor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So what we need is a Tantalum capacitor and check that since I think we all have aluminum.. If not then let me know because I have an aluminum one.

[Jbignes5]

Where have you seen this stated for a capacitor charging? An empty cap is a direct short to the charging source when the source is first applied.

Check this out; HyperPhysics

If that was the case then a condenser would be the same and even further a leyden jar for that fact. All are voltage devices not current devices. The only thing designating the capacity is actually the surface area of the plates. There is no flow in a capacitor only potential can build up except for leakage. There are a few things that makes caps do what they do including surface area distance between the plates(dielectric) density of the material used in the conductor plates and to a limited effect thickness of the plates. You could say the condenser or capacitor is a virtual diaphragm of sorts. If it was a short no matter is if did think it was or not it would fry itself. It's called static induction. Static laws pervade it's operation not current.

It could be that we are getting a static charging effect. This unfortunately at this voltage will do little to charge the battery on mass especially my 12 ah battery. It would take years to fill that lol. The thing that gets me is that we are getting a voltage rise. One possibility is that as the led acts like a diode it emits light as well. This should be a net loss yet we get a rise in voltage.

The funniest thing is that the cap that I have has an oscillating 3.22-3.23 dc volt wavering. This could be due to the cutoff of the signal through the action of the diode in the led.... So it self regulates... There is no good reason that the cap would have 3.2 volts on it seeing that we are supplying 8+volts to it. In my particular setup I have 3 diodes all parallel and still getting the effect. The thing is that I have hit a ceiling but that might be due to a shorted plate in this battery seeing that it was 8.2 before I started and it was known bad. I'm gonna switch it to a better battery and try then...

Ok got another battery the same size but no shorted cell. It started at 10.2 volts and when connected it dropped to 9.99 and started climbing. The voltage across the cap is 2.68 steady now. Weird...

ok from neg of battery to neg of capacitor is 7.42 and of course from neg of bat to positive of the cap is the full 10.05 volts. Thats 2.68 volts difference between the neg plate and positive plate. Since the caps housing encases the two terminals it is acting like a voltage splitter and you are getting the difference across the terminals of the cap. Since leds are almost purely voltage devices this is the reason for the led lighting. The problem now is to figure out what is causing the battery to bounce back. What I am thinking is that over a great amount of time the voltage should drop ever sooo slowly. Since at that point we are only using a very very small fraction of the current that normally flows in the led. But we also must pay attention to the fact that we are inductively connected to the caps through the housing. There should be nothing for current flow or near nothing.

By the way I just measured the current from the neg of the battery and I get 2.3 ma... I thought leds were 20-30 ma each. I got 3 in parallel.... I think the draining is from the leakage current that is normal among a lot of capacitors. If we could get a hold of an ultra capacitor and see if the same effect is there as well we could run the leds for free basically since the leakage current is way less on those I believe....

[ibpointless2]

@ DrStiffler

Please explain this
YouTube - Explain this Captret Effect DrStiffler

Things needed:
one 9 volt battery
one aligator clip
one Red LED
one Capacitor, 220uF 50V will work best


How to:
connect one end of the aligator clip to the positive of the LED and the other end to the positive of the capacitor.

Charge capacitor like normal

This is important. Connect the negative of the LED to the top of capacitor, notice the light, remove connection and go to the negative of the capacitor and also notice another light of the LED.

What is seen:
One charge gives two flashes. Why is this important? because one charge should only give one flash.

Also note that the flash from the top last for longer then the flash from the negative.




Watch the video and try it yourself. Amaze you friends and family with this simple Captret Effect "Toy".