Stingo Solid State Battery Charger

[7imix]

Thanks. I am not sure if it is resonance frequency of the coil, It maybe just the resonance of all component. Try it with load too.

Thanks. You may need to try to replace the 100K resistor with potentiometer.

I found that different coil or load need different combination of all three resistance.

Yes, its the resonance of all components. With load the frequency range available is different and the resonant frequency is different.

I'll try a pot.

Thanks!

[7imix]

Can you tell us how you were able to adjust
the frequency in order to find "resonance?"

When the potentiometers in the stingo circuits are changed, the frequency of impulses going into the coil changes. In The borderlands video "transverse and longitudinal waves" Eric Dollard demonstrates how sending the output of an audio waveform generator through a power amp through a coil at certain frequencies causes it to reflect at a certain phase. When the phase of the reflection from the coil matches the phase of the audio output, the system is in resonance and the voltage is at it's maximum. When the frequency increases or decreases from this point the voltage drops.

Check out the Eric dollard videos if you haven't seen them, they are amazing.

[sucahyo]

I did some measurements on the spike duration. On my first coil with the secondary shorted and no load, the spike duration was 12usec. The highest voltage on the low voltage side was 29 volts as calculated by my meter, but it must be performing rms calculation on it because the scope is way off the charts on the spikes. The scope goes to 100 volts. The voltage fell off as i adjusted frequency to either side, so I figure that must be the resonant frequency of the coil. The frequency is 7.5khz.

Thanks. I am not sure if it is resonance frequency of the coil, It maybe just the resonance of all component. Try it with load too.

On my other coil, I couldn't get it to oscillate with the secondary shorted. With the secondary open, the spike had a much gentler downslope and the spike duration was therefore 70us. The peak voltage was 45 volts and the resonant frequency was 1khz.

Thanks. You may need to try to replace the 100K resistor with potentiometer.

I found that different coil or load need different combination of all three resistance.

[SeaMonkey]

I did some measurements on the spike duration. On my first coil with the secondary shorted and no load, the spike duration was 12usec. The highest voltage on the low voltage side was 29 volts as calculated by my meter, but it must be performing rms calculation on it because the scope is way off the charts on the spikes. The scope goes to 100 volts. The voltage fell off as i adjusted frequency to either side, so I figure that must be the resonant frequency of the coil. The frequency is 7.5khz.

On my other coil, I couldn't get it to oscillate with the secondary shorted. With the secondary open, the spike had a much gentler downslope and the spike duration was therefore 70us. The peak voltage was 45 volts and the resonant frequency was 1khz.

Can you tell us how you were able to adjust
the frequency in order to find "resonance?"




The "Stingo" circuit is a very good example of how,
with a little creativity, a fairly simple and fun device
can be put together with commonly available parts.

If an automotive ignition coil isn't available then
virtually any transformer with a low voltage secondary
winding could be used in its place.

Not only is the "inductive kick-back" of the driven
winding useful; the high voltage produced in the
"secondary" may also be "tapped into."

Sucahyo has come up with a "stepping stone" to some
very interesting possibilities for the experimenter.

[7imix]

I did some measurements on the spike duration. On my first coil with the secondary shorted and no load, the spike duration was 12usec. The highest voltage on the low voltage side was 29 volts as calculated by my meter, but it must be performing rms calculation on it because the scope is way off the charts on the spikes. The scope goes to 100 volts. The voltage fell off as i adjusted frequency to either side, so I figure that must be the resonant frequency of the coil. The frequency is 7.5khz.

On my other coil, I couldn't get it to oscillate with the secondary shorted. With the secondary open, the spike had a much gentler downslope and the spike duration was therefore 70us. The peak voltage was 45 volts and the resonant frequency was 1khz.

[sucahyo]

You are welcome. What is an h wave?

h wave is a Bedini suggested wave form for charging a battery. A spike and some current after that.

Here is the second video I made today, of the secondary shorted. I will film touching the base tomorrow.

YouTube - Stingo with shorted secondary

Thanks. It do look noise free. I guess the secondary coil have some influence on the primary. I wonder if secondary noise is actually gain?

At the top it says 50usec/div. Those are the grey squares on the screen. Delta t is the measurement between the two white dotted lines, which I can move to measure things. I will measure the spikes that way tomorrow.

Thanks .

[7imix]

The goal is to maximize output current first, and then minimize the input current. But that is optional, you can also choose higher output instead of highest efficiency.

thanks, I am looking forward to trying this.

For charger I use computer power supply toroid. As for the coil spec, I don't know, sorry:

Ok, I will just wind a few coils and try them out. Thanks

Thanks for the video . I really love the spike reading . Show sign of h wave too .

Can you show scope reading with shorted secondary and your hand toucing the PNP base?

I see delta T as 300uS, for small or big grid? that means the spike width is around 50uS or something?

You are welcome. What is an h wave?

Here is the second video I made today, of the secondary shorted. I will film touching the base tomorrow.

YouTube - Stingo with shorted secondary

At the top it says 50usec/div. Those are the grey squares on the screen. Delta t is the measurement between the two white dotted lines, which I can move to measure things. I will measure the spikes that way tomorrow.

[sucahyo]

Where do the meters go? When the meters are in place, is the goal to maximize current?

The goal is to maximize output current first, and then minimize the input current. But that is optional, you can also choose higher output instead of highest efficiency.

What is the diameter, how many turns, and what gauge wire for your best coil? I will make one. I wanted a smaller coil to make it easier to put in a project box.

For charger I use computer power supply toroid. As for the coil spec, I don't know, sorry:

Have you tried to connect the negative of the battery to the positive of the source? Disconnect the negative on the FWBR and connect it to the positive of the power source. See if you get an increase, decrease or same current for both draw/input.

FWBR in series with cap is what I get after some experiment. You will get 40%. You can add another 20% with a trick but I am still not sure if it will be good for the battery.

With the gap the spike is a lot dirtier, with a lot of bounce after the initial spike. I may not be getting a DC spark. Perhaps my magnetic quencher is in the wrong orientation, or the magnets are not close enough. I will experiment some more.

Try with water surface too or increase the input voltage to 24V or something.

Thanks for the video . I really love the spike reading . Show sign of h wave too .

Can you show scope reading with shorted secondary and your hand toucing the PNP base?

I see delta T as 300uS, for small or big grid? that means the spike width is around 50uS or something?

[7imix]

Ok, here is the first of a series of videos showing measurements of one of my stingos.

YouTube - Stingo Spark Gap Measurements

The frequency range I was able to measure is about 800hz to 5.5khz.

With the gap the spike is a lot dirtier, with a lot of bounce after the initial spike. I may not be getting a DC spark. Perhaps my magnetic quencher is in the wrong orientation, or the magnets are not close enough. I will experiment some more.

In the next video I perform measurements with the high voltage side shorted instead of a gap, and the spikes are much cleaner.

[7imix]

If you are not watching this other thread yet, it's another stingo variant, and I made some progress reproducing it today, so check it out. There's a movie of some cool results.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/5905-easy-no-bemf-motor-brushed-motor.html#post111889

I also took some video of the stingo sparker and the stingo running with the high voltage side of the car coil shorted. It's uploading right now, I'll post a message when it's done processing.

[Ecoman11]

@sucahyo

Have you tried to connect the negative of the battery to the positive of the source? Disconnect the negative on the FWBR and connect it to the positive of the power source. See if you get an increase, decrease or same current for both draw/input.

Ecoman

[7imix]

All potentiometer change frequency. But each have different most efficient position that change with the load. If you have two amp meter, you can know the position on spesific load.

Where do the meters go? When the meters are in place, is the goal to maximize current?

I wound it my self to make it small. Any coil can be used. My best is air core but what I use to charge battery is the small toroid one.

What is the diameter, how many turns, and what gauge wire for your best coil? I will make one. I wanted a smaller coil to make it easier to put in a project box.

[sucahyo]

Thanks for your posts Sucahyo. I forgot to ask you about the knobs. What do the two potentiometers control. I assume one is for frequency, but not sure which.

All potentiometer change frequency. But each have different most efficient position that change with the load. If you have two amp meter, you can know the position on spesific load.

You wind your own coil for your Stingo? Air core or ferrite? I’m using an eBay bought cheapo car ignition coil.

I wound it my self to make it small. Any coil can be used. My best is air core but what I use to charge battery is the small toroid one.

Would it be better to short the HV output to the case rather than the negative terminal? I’ve noticed from continuity testing that they aren’t the same thing.

I don't know. I suggest to short the HV output for safety. The output should reduce a bit but see if you get it too.

Notice that you can only get radiant output with shorted secondary with stingo. On any other radiant circuit you must let the HV output open to get radiant output.

So the cap is a DC filter? What load are you talking about? The charging battery?

Yes and yes.

Isn’t the top of the human audible range around 20kHz?

Yes. Sometime I can not hear it's whine. Usually when charging an empty battery.



BTW, as charger, I prefer multiple stingo combined with my FWBR combiner than single stingo. Efficiency of combined circuit: 1 + 1 > 2.

[Godfrey]

Hi All,

Thanks for your posts Sucahyo. I forgot to ask you about the knobs. What do the two potentiometers control. I assume one is for frequency, but not sure which.

Yes. I wound my coil without secondary.

For safe operation, short the secondary.

In my opinion, the spike is bouncing,

I agree. Coil ringing may be a factor too.

so by using FWBR I get the weaker reverse bounce too

Good idea to use FWBR!

and I use capacitor to prevent the load from getting powered by the source battery.

So the cap is a DC filter? What load are you talking about? The charging battery?

Thanks so much for that very helpful information, SeaMonkey!

I need to get my camera charged and take some video. I have lots of observations to share.

[7imix]

That is very high. That is not a typo?

You're right, it was a typo. I meant kHz.

How many volts at low voltage side?

I'll measure.