Stingo Solid State Battery Charger

[skaght]

stingo can run as a solid state tesla coil!

I posted this on the SEC variant thread as well...

While the efficiency may be less, you can run "slayer exciter coils" on a stingo. You do have to adjust the circuit some. I used C5027 npn and J1943 pnp. The resistor to the base of the PNP was increased to 100k. The primary is the standard coil on the stingo circuit, the secondary is tied directly to the collector of the PNP and the PNP is in normal mode, not inverse mode...

Cheers!

[cikljamas]

Here is all together:



You can also add capacitor in parallel with charged battery to improve charging speed. I don't use it because it heat up battery and I rarely monitor how long a battery is charged . Safer for me without cap .


No, relay or 555 draw more current. Spark problem in relay reduce speed and efficiency. 555 signal is just dull in comparison. If you can achieve ou with 555 or relay, I believe transistor circuit only will get you better.

The circuit you post at this is it thread are cap dumper circuit where relay work as switch.

Any relay will be fine. Better if you can pry it open for tweaking and cleaning purposes. Relay is unreliable for hours of operation.

Thanks for the song . I am surprise to hear it at first because I thought they gonna sing Indonesia tanah air beta:
YouTube - Utha Likumahua - Indonesia Tanah Air Beta

Thanks my friend !
I gave up from that 555 circuit, and thank you for sparing my time !
It would be nice if you think you can put together Pulsator from my
thread "This is it" and "stingo"...I spent few hours today trying to
do that but i havent gone to far with it...Somebody mentioned that
he is going to try that, we ll see...I noticed that if i connect two
toroids to my version of stingo i can achieve much better results
charging one battery from another battery, i have to see whether
efficiency raise up in selfcharging configuration, and i have to wind
third toroid to see if it is going to raise up efficency even more than
that with third coil...Coil is the key in stigno raising efficiency much
more than diodes, at least it is my opinion ...
How come you know that indonesian song ?...Yes, there is a lot of
similarity, they stole it from mexicans ....
This is the best version of la golondrina, original is original !
YouTube - La Golondrina(제비)-Trio Los Panchos
But, we croatians know too, how to make very emotional songs :
YouTube - MERI CETINIĆ & TEDI SPALATO& KLAPA LUČICA - KONOBA

[Farmhand]

Thank you, That looks like him. Maybe tomorrow I will have FrankenStingo.

Just kidding, I'll start after dinner.

Can you define basic? If it is for charging then use this circuit bellow without the part at the left of the coil, and replace it with one diode:
For sparking experiment, remove the 500K and 100K part.

Thanks.

[sucahyo]

Hi Sucahyo, Could you please point me to your most recent, and most basic Stingo please, I should build a basic one first I think.

Can you define basic? If it is for charging then use this circuit bellow without the part at the left of the coil, and replace it with one diode:


For sparking experiment, remove the 500K and 100K part.

[Farmhand]

Hi Sucahyo, Could you please point me to your most recent, and most basic Stingo please, I should build a basic one first I think.

I might understand him better that way.

Thanks

[sucahyo]

Would you be so kind to show me that recent cap location ?
Could you show me schematic to see how would it be (combination FWBR
with diodes) ?

Here is all together:



You can also add capacitor in parallel with charged battery to improve charging speed. I don't use it because it heat up battery and I rarely monitor how long a battery is charged . Safer for me without cap .

I got your schematic with 555 and relay, is it even better solution for selfcharging purpose ?...

No, relay or 555 draw more current. Spark problem in relay reduce speed and efficiency. 555 signal is just dull in comparison. If you can achieve ou with 555 or relay, I believe transistor circuit only will get you better.

The circuit you post at this is it thread are cap dumper circuit where relay work as switch.

Could i use auto relay or it got to be some special purpose relay ?

Any relay will be fine. Better if you can pry it open for tweaking and cleaning purposes. Relay is unreliable for hours of operation.

Thanks for the song . I am surprise to hear it at first because I thought they gonna sing Indonesia tanah air beta:
YouTube - Utha Likumahua - Indonesia Tanah Air Beta

[cikljamas]

It is very interesting that you get no discharging at source battery with that circuit. I found that my recent cap location modification is 30% more efficient.

Would you be so kind to show me that recent cap location ?

And I though you are adding diode from negative to charged battery positive. You can still do that with FWBR version to get 40% more efficiency.

Could you show me schematic to see how would it be (combination FWBR
with diodes) ?

That is no different then many 555 in one chip and we use it the same way as 555, output to the NPN transistor base or something.

I got your schematic with 555 and relay, is it even better solution
for selfcharging purpose ?...
Could i use auto relay or it got to be some special purpose relay ?

For your kindness Croatian mariachi sings for you :
YouTube - Los Caballeros - La Golondrina
Rgds !

[sucahyo]

How it looks like ?

It look like a glass shaped heatsink.

This one :
http://www.energeticforum.com/attach...1&d=1289439233

Thank you .

It is very interesting that you get no discharging at source battery with that circuit. I found that my recent cap location modification is 30% more efficient.

I got confused because I did not think you are using battery in charged part too...

And I though you are adding diode from negative to charged battery positive. You can still do that with FWBR version to get 40% more efficiency.

Could you tell me something about this circuit that Gmeast attached in other thread...It should be used for selfcharging battery but i am not sure where to connect toroid to that circuit...I suppose that PWM output goes back to + battery, but i am not sure where goes triangularwave output, and how to articulate this 4th op amps on the IC as a buffer...

That is no different then many 555 in one chip and we use it the same way as 555, output to the NPN transistor base or something.

Remember that the circuit is just part of the requirement. The toroid is also important. The toroid maybe different from the electrolysis implementation.

I don't think there is much info available about the frequency and how we add it together on Bob Boyce non electrolysis implementation.

You will find more info about it on TPU implementation. The real TPU don't use battery by some people obtain power multiplication with it. or you can search waterfuelforall archive. I remember someone posting a circuit that synching three frequency with cheap timer circuit.

I would try powering with spike instead of triggering current to the all three coil of the Bob Boyce toroid.

[cikljamas]

It seems that because of copy paste method you are not going to be
able to see schematic of gmeast by clicking this link that i copied, so
i am gonna attach it here :

[cikljamas]

You get a circuit that do not consume battery power and still heating up the transistor or coil. If we utilize the heat, we got free heat.

How it looks like ?

I am confuse. Can you post diagram? maybe by modifying mine?
Sorry, I can't give suggestion. I am not sure which circuit that you use for the non discharging battery yet. Please tell which circuit.

This one :

http://www.energeticforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6897&stc=1&d=1289439233

Could you tell me something about this circuit that Gmeast attached in
other thread...It should be used for selfcharging battery but i am not sure
where to connect toroid to that circuit...I suppose that PWM output goes
back to + battery, but i am not sure where goes triangularwave output, and how to articulate this 4th op amps on the IC as a buffer...
I put that same question to gmeast but i am not sure that he is going
to answer me, and i think it is very interesting circuit that we could
use instead of Bob Boyce/Watkykjy circuits...
Here is whole gmeasts post :

Originally Posted by gmeast View Post
I have begun. I am sourcing analog components. The circuit I am using to generate a Variable Frequency PWM is a bulletproof circuit comprised of simple low-cost components and it works ... every time. I have built these many times. The main components cost less than $1.00 each. We will need 3 of them for three frequencies ... < $3.00. Then there are some resistors and capacitors.

Some company called MAXIM put a circuit up on the internet to sell their stuff. This is Radio Shack-level stuff and is NOT proprietary and so here it is on my ftp:

http://02d1852.netsolhost.com/radian...hModulator.pdf

Now if you use a quad-op amp, you can have one VF PWM using 3 of the 4 op-amps on the IC for the VF PWM and use the fourth OP-Amp as a buffer and put some gain on it (or not) to drive hard a FET or Transistor. If you use a 10Mhz Quad Op-Amp then you can make nice, short, sharp, steep pulses that are perhaps 0.5% duty cycle at 50KHz (1/200). Can you believe it costs only $0.63 each in single quantities ?... And they are very available.

This is my starting point since my issue with the transformer remains unanswered and thus unresolved ... ah, to toroid or not to toroid ... that is the question ... 'tis better to ... oh, sorry.

Well, there ya go,

Greg

Rgds !

[sucahyo]

It depends... I've been playing with the circuit and it's fascinating! I can adjust the resistance and typically keep the PNP pretty cool. My current arrangement is using a 15kv NST with the output shorted. If I open and close the HV output of the NST a couple times, the resonant frequency jumps up by a factor of ten or so (from ~200 Hz to 5KHz) and the circuit seems to run a bit cooler, while still charging the lead acid battery. Once it's stabilized at the higher frequency I can short the output of the NST again and it stays at the higher resonance. The effect is pretty dependent on resistance as well. I've also been getting intense and complex harmonics with the NST, which makes me think this may have some parallels to the COP > 1 inductive heating circuit...

Sucahyo, thanks so much for sharing this circuit! I think there's a lot more to discover with this...

Thank you .

The open and close trick show how unstable this circuit is lol. Thanks for the info .

I highly believe that sharper signal improve output, so I believe inductive heating can be improved with somewhat similar way of transistor triggering.



@Godfrey, I don't think heat is a problem. Dr Robert Adams reach COP>1 with very very hot transistor that he had to use water cooling for that. And the first planned implementation of adams motor is water heater ....

I also believe that heat at NPN is also sign that we are switching very close to transistor limit. If the NPN heated up more than what they do in normal circuit, I am glad .


If you really think frequency is important, use PNP and NPN combination with timer chip. Or for similar effect, two circuit. One with 555 and NPN is used to make a coil spike, and then we use the spike to drive a PNP and NPN circuit.

[Godfrey]

Adding Yet Another Knob?

The PNP Transistor is connected to operate in what
is known as "inverse mode." The Collector is functioning
as the Emitter and the Emitter is functioning as the
Collector.

By working in "inverse mode" it effectively reduces the
base drive to the NPN Switching Transistor thereby
preventing it from being overdriven.

The Current Gain (Beta) of a transistor in inverse mode
is approximately 10% of normal gain.

To attain the same effect with the PNP Transistor
in normal mode a variable resistor could be connected
in series with the NPN Base lead in order to "tune"
base drive for maximum efficiency.

There is nothing wrong with "inverse mode" operation.
It is seldom used but a good "trick" to remember when
it can be taken advantage of.

Yes, I remember your first helpful thoughts on this!

Attached is a circuit diagram which is very
similar to the "Stingo" arrangement.

By studying the circuit connections it may
be possible to try varying certain component
locations in the circuit layout in order to
achieve optimum performance and stability.

[skaght]

Do the PNP get very hot? I ask because I think you use high current to be able to increase output with shorted secondary.

It depends... I've been playing with the circuit and it's fascinating! I can adjust the resistance and typically keep the PNP pretty cool. My current arrangement is using a 15kv NST with the output shorted. If I open and close the HV output of the NST a couple times, the resonant frequency jumps up by a factor of ten or so (from ~200 Hz to 5KHz) and the circuit seems to run a bit cooler, while still charging the lead acid battery. Once it's stabilized at the higher frequency I can short the output of the NST again and it stays at the higher resonance. The effect is pretty dependent on resistance as well. I've also been getting intense and complex harmonics with the NST, which makes me think this may have some parallels to the COP > 1 inductive heating circuit...

Sucahyo, thanks so much for sharing this circuit! I think there's a lot more to discover with this...

[sucahyo]

I forget to mention before that what I see as the equal of touching the radiant positive output with hand is ungrounded water.

In short:
Kevin suggestion = earth ground connect after the diode
my suggestion = ungrounded water connect after the diode

A little explanation for this ?

You get a circuit that do not consume battery power and still heating up the transistor or coil. If we utilize the heat, we got free heat.

I still can not experiment with stingo yet because of battery problem.. I can only watch now.

Well, here we are, there is no point to do this because my single "selfcharging" (not yet selfcharging indeed)battery is already in parallel with capacitor, it means that i do not use dc filtering capacitor

I am confuse. Can you post diagram? maybe by modifying mine?

what exactly capacitor you use and what value of that capacitor should be ?

1uF 250V taken from broken computer power supply.

And do you think that i should put that capacitor anyway though i use my running capacitor ?

Sorry, I can't give suggestion. I am not sure which circuit that you use for the non discharging battery yet. Please tell which circuit.

Sometimes if you flip the PNP from reverse biased to normal biased (switch collector and emitter) you can get a coil to resonate that didn't before.

Thank for the tip . I guess we can use normal bias if effeciency is not a problem.

I hooked up the charge part of the circuit without a cap and a single diode and it's charging a lead acid battery with a weird waveform. It reminds me of a meyer's water splitting circuit, with two frequencies present.

That is very interesting .

Oh and one last thing! With an AV plug, I could also detect a small amount of power when I was touching the LED leads (adding capacitance with my own body.) The power was much less than a standard SEC exciter, but the effect was present!

Yes .

I noticed blowup of my NPN to my face, and after that i noticed that my NPN exploded because my PNP was broken...I noticed that i survived without any damage on my face, and my ears are well too...So, beware of stingo, he can be dangerous too...

Wow, thanks for the warning. That happen with 12V source?

That waveform was from a slayer exciter air core coil on the stingo. The lead acid charges much faster with an MOT with the high voltage output shorted. I also tried an NST with the high voltage output shorted as well and it worked fairly well. Now the charging waveform I'm getting is a nice h. I'm also using my PNP normal biased and still no cap's on the output leads with a single diode. I'll have to measure efficiency at a later date, but right now I'm just trying to resurrect my lead acid battery! Oh and I'm using a different PNP, one that has a bit better stats: FJP1943otu

Thanks for the info . Do the PNP get very hot? I ask because I think you use high current to be able to increase output with shorted secondary.

[skaght]

Farmhand:

The waveform is similar, but I don't have the negative half of the wave that you posted, all the spikes go back to ground, not past it. Thanks for the example for clarification!

That waveform was from a slayer exciter air core coil on the stingo. The lead acid charges much faster with an MOT with the high voltage output shorted. I also tried an NST with the high voltage output shorted as well and it worked fairly well. Now the charging waveform I'm getting is a nice h. I'm also using my PNP normal biased and still no cap's on the output leads with a single diode. I'll have to measure efficiency at a later date, but right now I'm just trying to resurrect my lead acid battery! Oh and I'm using a different PNP, one that has a bit better stats: FJP1943otu