Stingo Solid State Battery Charger

[cikljamas]

I think I will go with this circuit. Test indicate same on and off time. But timing is still not up there yet.

Ok, i am gonna test this circuit too, and see what is going on, but i wonder
if these 555 circuits are able to fulfill our needs (turn on things, and keep them
turned on for certain amount of time and then turn off things, and keep them
turned off for same amount of time and then whole cycle again, and again...)
cause i remember one metronome with 555, and it works so that after some
time one led stops to lit, and another starts to lit in the same time, but there
is no possibility to start that cycle again unless you switch it manually...
Maybe we need some more sophisticated circuits to fulfill our needs or just
need to choose right one, and lets hope that this one is right one...Lets do it
and see...

Cheers !

[sucahyo]

I think I will go with this circuit. Test indicate same on and off time. But timing is still not up there yet.

[sucahyo]

Well, as i said i have to study all this, then i hope i ll figure out how to put this all together

ok.

No, 20 sec. ON, then millisecond OFF, and again 20 second ON, which means
that torch is always ON, except milliseconds that occur every 20 second of that pointless cycle...

I see. Thanks. I thought I have faulty 555. I use common online version.

I guess I will redo it again with lower resistor value and bigger capacitor. I will let you know tomorrow.

[cikljamas]

I would call mine as 14 leg. Yours as 8 leg. If you power two DPDT you have 14 leg, same as mine.

I would call mine as four pole double throw, 4PDT. It is rare. But you can use 2 DPDT or 4 SPDT to replace them. You need to parallel all the relay coil so all 2 DPDT powered at the same time.

Well, as i said i have to study all this, then i hope i ll figure out how to put
this all together

Sorry, I am not clear. You mean 20 second OFF but on milisecond ON?
.

No, 20 sec. ON, then millisecond OFF, and again 20 second ON, which means
that torch is always ON, except milliseconds that occur every 20 second of that pointless cycle...
So, it seems that this 555 circuit just turns off the torch every 20 seconds
just for the little part of one second, and after that little part of one second
torch is turned on again !
So, torch is always ON, what i am able to see is just that FLIP/FLOP (OFF/ON)
every 20 seconds !?

[sucahyo]

I thought you use either dpdt or relay, now it seems we have to use both of them ?...I have just one 6 leg dpdt, but as i understand it at the first sight we could use two dpdts without relay and what i still do not understand is how to combine two dpdts with relay, and they have to be 8 leg ?
I just saw you 8 leg dpdt picture, i have to try to figure out how you connect
all that wires together, but is there 8 leg dpdts available in stores or is it
rare one tipes ?

I would call mine as 14 leg. Yours as 8 leg. If you power two DPDT you have 14 leg, same as mine.

I would call mine as four pole double throw, 4PDT. It is rare. But you can use 2 DPDT or 4 SPDT to replace them. You need to parallel all the relay coil so all 2 DPDT powered at the same time.

And another one puzzle is this : i made today your 555 circuit and tested it with my led flasher and the result is next : every 20 sec. relay just turns off (for millisecond) leds, and after that leds continue to flash as before, and i expected that circuit somehow turns off the flasher or stingo or whatever, and after 20 sec. turns on flasher, or stingo..., and again turns off, turns on, turns off, turns on,but the state of turns off should last for 20 sec., not just one millisecond as well as state of turns on which last most of the time, except that little one millisecond...So, maybe missing link is
normally closed contact point which i do not use and i see in your
picture you use it ???

Sorry, I am not clear. You mean 20 second OFF but on milisecond ON?

I forgot to mention that time is 20 second. double the capacitor (22uF) will get you 40.

[cikljamas]

Did you use DPDT (8 leg)? Can you post a picture of it? so I can make a photo diagram for easier wiring.


We trigger the relay together so we connect the relay coil in parallel if we use more than one relay.

I thought you use either dpdt or relay, now it seems we have to use both
of them ?...I have just one 6 leg dpdt, but as i understand it at the first
sight we could use two dpdts without relay and what i still do not understand
is how to combine two dpdts with relay, and they have to be 8 leg ?
I just saw you 8 leg dpdt picture, i have to try to figure out how you connect
all that wires together, but is there 8 leg dpdts available in stores or is it
rare one tipes ?

And another one puzzle is this : i made today your 555 circuit and tested it
with my led flasher and the result is next : every 20 sec. relay just turns off
(for millisecond) leds, and after that leds continue to flash as before, and i
expected that circuit somehow turns off the flasher or stingo or whatever,
and after 20 sec. turns on flasher, or stingo..., and again turns off, turns on,
turns off, turns on,but the state of turns off should last for 20 sec., not just
one millisecond as well as state of turns on which last most of the time,
except that little one millisecond...So, maybe missing link is
normally closed contact point which i do not use and i see in your
picture you use it ???

Since it is a little bit complicated i have to spend a little bit
more time to put all these connections in mosaic that makes sense to me...

[sucahyo]

Hi Sucahyo so I should leave the JT with cap and fwbr as you're saying cause it's more efficient yes?

Use this one:

By the way what is that stingo it's amazing that circuit. I left it around 3 days going on a discharged battery around 6v and charging another. On the source battery is holding the charge as if not draining.

That is awesome, what if you put LED on the load instead of battery?

@sucahyo
i have this fan running on bedini circut and i get 1200rpm

but when i run the same fan on your stingo bedini circuit i get almost 1200rpm but the transistors get hot instantly. The coils are 5 ohm.

how can i achieve more than 3600 RPM

thanks,

Did you use this circuit?


5 ohm is very low, mine more than 50 ohm. Maybe you need to use bigger resistor value, 100K or 500K. Can you notice the coil sing if you raise the potentiometer value?

I bought today two relays, and when i sat down to assemble all together than i found out that i do not understand how to apply your diagram, so help, i am drowning...

You see, i am working on this stuff, but i just had to stop at this point...

Thank you .

Here is mine.



Did you use DPDT (8 leg)? Can you post a picture of it? so I can make a photo diagram for easier wiring.


We trigger the relay together so we connect the relay coil in parallel if we use more than one relay.

[cikljamas]

relay

Hi Sucahyo !

This relay stuff is much more complicated than i thought it would be...
Where to start from ?

I understand how relay works,but i know how to use it in simple
circuits, but this is unbelievable and IMHO almost impossible task...
But, of course it must be again some catch 22 that i do not get it
at this moment...

Relay works in one way, when we switch the relay trigger wire(86)
then we get output power through high power feed(30 or COM)
on high power output normally open contact(87)...I do not know
what is 87a (normally closed contact) for ??? Cause from 30 or COM to
87a there is always current flow, we do not need relay coil to realize that
flow, so it is pointless INHO connection, or maybe it is not, but i do not
see how and why ???

So, if we use relay in this standard way what situation we have here ?
We have one open contact (from battery plus to stingo pnp base if it is
reverse mode or emitter in normal mode), and when we switch trigger
wire (relay coil feed) than we turn on stingo but in the same time negative
pole must be connected normally (not through relay) with npn emitter !

And in your diagram we have to change whenever relay is switched on or
off, all four contacts (battery power plus, battery power minus,
charged batt. plus, and charged batt. minus) in the same time !!!

I bought today two relays, and when i sat down to assemble all together
than i found out that i do not understand how to apply your diagram, so
help, i am drowning...

You see, i am working on this stuff, but i just had to stop at this point...

Cheers !

[lancerdoom1]

@sucahyo
i have this fan running on bedini circut and i get 1200rpm


but when i run the same fan on your stingo bedini circuit i get almost 1200rpm but the transistors get hot instantly. The coils are 5 ohm.



how can i achieve more than 3600 RPM

thanks,

[Guruji]

Cap to JT

Hi Sucahyo so I should leave the JT with cap and fwbr as you're saying cause it's more efficient yes?
By the way what is that stingo it's amazing that circuit. I left it around 3 days going on a discharged battery around 6v and charging another. On the source battery is holding the charge as if not draining.
Amazing.

[sucahyo]

Different source voltage different result

Still do not play with FWBR yet, but already have different result.....

Joule thief experiment with 3V battery load with 11.5V source.
single diode negative to positive = 290mA, consume 1100mA, no load consume = 820mA. (Ef=26%)
partial cap isolated FWBR = 300mA, consume 1050mA (Ef=28%)

The efficiency is better with cap FWBR with 11.5V source!


Stingo experiment with 3V battery load with 11.5 source.
single diode negative to positive = 840mA, consume 1190mA, no load consume = 590mA. (Ef=70%)
partial cap isolated FWBR = 800mA, consume 1280mA, no load consume = 2180mA.(Ef=62.5%)

In stingo, the FWBR still produce worse result. Notice that I do not use toroid on my old experiment, only transformer ...............


Lesson: Try everything!



BTW, I don't have good SLA to try so I can not say if single diode combiner change battery into capacitor. Anyone willling to try?

[sucahyo]

FWBR is a must for battery application, sorry, forgot.

Hi Sucahyo looking forward for your correct schematic with cap for JT.
Thanks

Oops, I forgot to mention that when I use single diode my battery turn into capacitor, have voltage but do not have charge. With FWBR my battery have a good charge and never turn into capacitor.

I experience dead battery after using FWBR but it happen because the electrode is corroded so much and shorted or fall apart and disconnect the internal.

So, even if single diode may give more efficient result for spesific implementation, on battery charging, FWBR is better.

But I still open to suggestion if anyone ever have battery turn into capacitor with FWBR solution. Notice that Bedini use FWBR after isolating the coil. But that implementation only possible with external timer or trigger. I fail to make it work with stingo but may try it again in the future.

[Guruji]

Results

Hi Sucahyo looking forward for your correct schematic with cap for JT.
Thanks

[sucahyo]

Withdrawing FWBR recommendation for now

Guruji,
here is some result. Using 3Volts source. This show the importance of testing every combination. I record it, will post the video if needed.

Joule thief experiment with 1 ohm load



single diode negative to positive = 220mA, no load consume = 580mA, with load consume 550mA.
Current efficiency = 40%



single diode negative to negative, dead circuit = 620mA, consume 620mA
single diode negative to negative, live circuit = 350mA, consume 880mA
Current efficiency = 39.7%, dead circuit = 100%



partial cap isolated FWBR = 160mA, consume 480mA
Current efficiency = 33%


Stingo experiment with 1 ohm load


partial cap isolated FWBR = 120mA, consume 230mA, no load consume 440
Current efficiency = 52%



single diode negative to positive = 150mA, with load consume 180mA.
Current efficiency = 83%


I fail to make the circuit run when using single diode negative to negative


Summary:
1. Partial cap isolated FWBR produce worse result, which is surprising for me. I think I will try to do more experiment with the FWBR. My first FWBR double it. Maybe this is what make cikljamas confuse...

2. Stingo about twice more efficient than joule thief.


3. The consumption number are weird:
Joule thief consumption with resistor as load:
3 ohm < 1 ohm < no load

Stingo consumption with resistor as load:
1 ohm < 3 ohm < no load

So there is resonant load in joule thief while stingo just consume less with less load resistance.

[sucahyo]

Well 9/5 is less then 2 mAmps for just one led, but you have to use 12 V batt., it wont work with lower volts devices, at least it wont work unless you change values of components, but i am content with 12 V as source and these component values, and if you want you could add 5 more leds running your device with just 18 mAmps instead of cutting off number of leds, but everyone should make his/her own best choice regarding number of leds....

Ok, thanks

C20 is what exactly ? It seems like you are talking about cop ?
And even if it is so, could you explain it a little bit in context of relay story
that we discuss off ?

C20 refer to battery discharge rate. Battery service life depend on how much we force it to work. The higher current we force it to work, the quicker it become empty.

C number refer to how many fraction of capacity. C1 refer to the use of 7Ah battery at 1 amp. C20 of 7Ah battery is 350mA, a 1/20 of its capacity.

Some people mention that battery is best discharged or charged at 1/20 of its capacity, usually referred as C20.



guruji, I have some correction to the cap isolated FWBR for joule thief. Will post the circuit and the reason soon.