Imhotep's Radiant Oscillator Video

[Aromaz]

Hi Damian, if you can not swop, I can try to help you.

The relay you got - is it 12Vdc Automotive as used for main lights?
This one will have the same pin layout as photo above, never mind brand name.

There is also another 12Vdc relay wich I used in my video #002. Thatone had four small pins on one side, typical for soldering and two clip-in type of blade pins on the other side.

Else try to describe if for me in as much detail as you can - if you can not swop it out for a Bosch.

[dmonarch]

5 Pin

Hi xenomorph
What a bugger i just payed 13 dollars on a relay i cant use. I might see if they will take it back and let me get a replacement and get the one you mentioned. I hope it is not too dare. Though i think it will be worth it as this little unit will satisfy most of my requirements for further experimenation.
With the 5 pin unit you mentioned how do you wire it up for the radiant oscillator.

Hi Sucahyo
I wish i could post a picture however i dont have a camera, I really should get one. It has 4 legs however the insider of the unit is very different from the imhotep video showing the modification.

Cheers
Damian

[sucahyo]

@dmonarch, Can you post a close up look of your relay? how many leg it has?

[Xenomorph]

Relay type

@dmonarch : I initially had similar difficulties figuring that out.
I can recommend you to save you the time of modifying the relay you have, is to get a Bosch-type 5 pin relay that will have the pins 87 and 87a. The classification of this type of relay is SPDT Switch (Single Pole Double Throw).
It looks like this :

Hope that helps you.

[dmonarch]

Dont understand circuit

Hi i am just trying to put together an imhotep radiant oscillator right this moment. I have a relay which appears to differ from the one in the video.
I dont quite understand the instrucitons correctly where am i meant to solder the extra wire, and where does that wire get hooked to. I dont know if there are two types of relays where the coils pushes the metal away to make contact or pulls it in to make contact but mine is the pull in type. If there are some clearer instrucitons or video i would appreciate it.
Cheers
damian

[sucahyo]

@sucahyo;......@Aromaz, I don't agree that more magnetic means more BEMF.......

I really said that somewhere? Then I must have either typed very wrong or I am completley stupid.

Sorry, I maybe conclude it wrong. You said:
"The Tesla pancake flat coil is of no unique value when using in electrical applications. The pure and only advantage - I have seen this far - is in increased magnetic field i.e. electro magnet."
" A coil will reduce BEMF"

I don't agree with the above point. I think tesla pancake has less magnetic field because it is made to cancel each other more than tubular coil. And I think there is an optimum wound for max BEMF, so increasing wound may increase BEMF or reduce it.

[Aromaz]

@sucahyo;......@Aromaz, I don't agree that more magnetic means more BEMF.......

I really said that somewhere? Then I must have either typed very wrong or I am completley stupid.

As for the rest - I will refrain from retyping the document I am busy with. When you read that you might understand the whole working of all better.

[sucahyo]

I currently making the video for 1.5 volts LED joule thief in back EMF lighting mode. The pot frequency purposely made so that the LED is dim when using tubular air core. I will post the video later, the result is:
- Tubular coil = dim
- Spiral Coil = bright
- Moebius = brigth same or more? as spiral coil
- one loop wire = do not light up, maybe because the induction do not work.

It turn out that Toshiba 2N3055 can actually work with 1.5V battery too.
Edit: Wrong brand, sorry, I thought it was woshiba, but it actually ST. So ST can work with 1.5V, while toshiba can't, but Toshiba give better BEMF.

Here is the video (slideshow):
YouTube - Joule thief BEMF comparison 2, plus moebius coil

It is interesting that coil mentioned by Meyl, moebius and tesla spiral coil BEMF outperform normal coil.

@Aromaz, I don't agree that more magnetic means more BEMF.

If two wire being closed to each other parallel in horizontal plane where current going to the same direction, the EM flux between them will be canceled out, EM Flux above and bellow them will be joined together. I think what make BEMF stronger is not this EM flux, since spiral coil and mobius design reduce this EM flux more, but from my experiment this kind of coil produce more BEMF and light up the neon brighter.

And you mention about:
"I think the biggest value of BEMF will only be obtained from a single long wire placed in such a way that the EM flux from one part does not have effect on the other part. In other words, wound it around your room and keep the windings far enough so their EM flux does not overlap. A coil will reduce BEMF."

"Single loop will give more BEMF on first ring, less on each folowing spike.
More loops will give more magnetic flux / force
More loop will give more forward electron flow
- because of increased magnetic vibrations."

It seems we may have different interpretation about BEMF. In my mind, BEMF is recovery energy available when you shut off the door in front of a coil. When the door is shut off, the back momentum electricity will go to any other direction aside from the door, back to the coil, or go to recovery circuit if any. This BEMF said to increase along with more of turn, in my personal opinion, there is an optimum wounding for each type of coil and input voltage. This BEMF will increase when current or voltage passing trough the coil increased.

For me resonant is achieved if you have no more recovery current increase when you increase or decrease the frequency by means of variable resistor or other PWM.

[Inquorate]

@ ren

That's a good point. Bifiliar pancake coil...... I'm getting actual callouses (sp) from all this wire winding.

[Aromaz]

@Aromaz, are you saying that for the same length of wire, one loop give better BEMF than pancake?

On my previous experiment:
YouTube - BEMF of flat spiral vs tubular coil

I learn that at the same wire length, spiral coil can generate BEMF enough to light up a LED, while air core can't. I think I will try it again with one loop bifilar at the same length. other note, the transistor I use for this 12V joule thief experiment is Toshiba 2N3055, the LED would not light up when using ST 2N3055.

There is a difference between forward current (or signal in case of phone) and Back EMF; and different coils has different effects - as to their cause, use, results and effects.

Same with resonance - What exactly is resonance? Why?

Same wire, same length:

Single loop will give more BEMF on first ring, less on each folowing spike.
More loops will give more magnetic flux / force
More loop will give more forward electron flow
- because of increased magnetic vibrations.

If you read my earlier posting about how electrons come to move, and their movement, you can work out why the effect of BEMF.

Maybe I will try to cut other pieces of my video recording or write a PDF file. It will also be a good 'clearing; of mind for myself.

[sucahyo]

@Aromaz, are you saying that for the same length of wire, one loop give better BEMF than pancake?

On my previous experiment:
YouTube - BEMF of flat spiral vs tubular coil

I learn that at the same wire length, spiral coil can generate BEMF enough to light up a LED, while air core can't. I think I will try it again with one loop bifilar at the same length. other note, the transistor I use for this 12V joule thief experiment is Toshiba 2N3055, the LED would not light up when using ST 2N3055.

About induction, network or telephone cable is twisted to preserve the signal. The plus and minus part of the signal must be twisted (in network cable, pin 1 - 2 pair and 3 - 6 pair), or else it would not reach far point. So I think for bifilar, the pair must not be twisted or else the secondary would receive less primary induction.

For pancake configuration, if we imagine how the magnetic field build, the magnetic field will have North at center and South at outer ring, or opposite. While in tubular coil, we will have north at top and south at bottom. magnetic should be higher in tubular and yet BEMF is stronger in pancake.

[Aromaz]

......Its funny what you say Aromaz about the biggest BEMF coming from a wire where the flux doesnt intefere. What if the flux cancelled each other out? Look at the way the bifilar is connected......

I think (those dangerous words again!)

BEMF is purely an Electron effect, yes it is causing magnetic flux but that
flux is a by-product from the chain reaction and not important. Why do we get BEMF - in normal electrical concept?

Think ElectroMagnetic-Flux: If you have a coil with wires close to each other; now imagine your current flow and anti-clockwise EM Flux around wire.
Place two of these right next to each other - Left and Right, both flux rotate in same direction, energy flows same direction. What is happening with flux between the two wires? One turns 'away' and the other turns 'towards' - counter. In magnetic it is good because such counter flow increases the magnetic force - but in electrical?

I think I will make a new set of experiments and video them.

[ren]

Tesla states in the patent exactly what this is for, and its not specifically for increased field density.

The purpose of this arrangement is for eliminating self induction of the coil at the proper frequency, usually achieved with the correct capacitor in an LC configuration. Teslas method shows that the bifilar coil in the correct arrangement can do this without the capacitor, which can be "expensive, cumbersome and difficult to maintain in perfect condition."

It is also important to note that Tesla wasnt just reffering to the pancake coil.
"I would here state that by the term coils, I desire to include helices, solenoids, or infact any conductor..."

And he also talks about the energy stored in the coil, being much greater (250 000 times) when configured like this.

Its funny what you say Aromaz about the biggest BEMF coming from a wire where the flux doesnt intefere. What if the flux cancelled each other out? Look at the way the bifilar is connected......

[Aromaz]

@Shanjaq, agree.

Anyone ever do BEMF experience with Tesla flat spiral coil? for charging or similar.

The Tesla pancake flat coil is of no unique value when using in electrical applications. The pure and only advantage - I have seen this far - is in increased magnetic field i.e. electro magnet.

I think the biggest value of BEMF will only be obtained from a single long wire placed in such a way that the EM flux from one part does not have effect on the other part. In other words, wound it around your room and keep the windings far enough so their EM flux does not overlap. A coil will reduce BEMF.

As for the length - keep in mind the resistance of the wire will reduce the BEMF effect too, so if the wire is very long you will find reduced current at the end, reduced electron heaping and even more reduced BEMF at point of origin.

Unless you can use the electrical equivalent of a Tsunami - Soliton wave.

[Xenomorph]

flat spiral coil

I know that Gotoluc has made a flat spiral coil, not sure if he did any experiments concerning BEMF.
You can see it here: YouTube - RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE test 11

Looks promising, unfortunately i cant find any place here that would sell me long enough magnet wire to make such a big coil. Will order it from ebay or something. Imagine a bifilar flat spiral coil setup that will give highest BEMF already and then applying the Slayer booster on it. The multimeters will love that