Electric Motor Secrets

[cyberXena]

more on the transistor and Hall....

Thanks for the info...
I thought there was more to the 21194..than it was just lying around. So to be sure you are saying the kick back can spike the 21194 to its top load.

I first got the motor running and it coged but after i put the 1000uF on the output it smoothed down and purrs now.. As for the hall interface though..
Here is a circuit mod I got from Allegro Systems (a hall vendor) and i tried to figure an interface but with your comments on the voltage divider to the base of the 21194 I'm wondering if this will mess things up there Comments? Ideas..



-CX

[Eric]

sorry about the position of the post here but as newbie I'm just getting "Sea Legs" here. I built a rotary attraction motor from an old vacuum motor with the circuit in the Lindemann video (I have the DVD ) - I had some questions about the circuit specifics. I know these posts are quite old but perhaps someone still reads these and may know the answers or can point to the info:

1. Why is the transistor in the circuit (on the october video) so large/
it is a MJL21194 is huge - 200 VDC@16 Amps! why not just use a Darlington like TIP120 or something.. ?

2. Does anyone have a circuit enhancement to accomodate using a hall effect ic instead of the reed switch? I will upload my proposal as soon as I can find the right place to do it.

Here are some pictures and a video link to what I have done...

[ATTACH]2785[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]2786[/ATTACH]

YouTube - DSCF1566

welcome!

to answer your question on the MJL21194 from ON semiconductor, if i remember correctly, i was told quite awhile ago that this one is an extremely reliable bipolar transistor for the type of circuit we are building, and is/was used a lot by bedini in a lot of his circuits as well. the reason we need it is for the brief moment the tranny is on it needs to dump as much amps as V=IR will allow it to. and when you turn the switch off the kickback can easily fill a 220v photo flash cap and if you dont have something connected for the kickback to dump into it will try to short through the tranny and if the tranny is not beafy it can be destroyed (also a 600v NE2 neon light bulb connected from collector to emmiter can help save your tranny). i purchased 25 to start with because of the available discount and the assumption that i still might ruin some as i learn.

as to the darlington, thats a very different circuit used for power gain (as in amplifiers) its not what we are looking for. the circuit in its simplest form(as shown in peters video) is the best place to start. the trick is in using the resistor bridge on the base. when the power is cut off and the polarity switches the bridge allows the gate/base to shut off "hard" and clean this is needed in order to allow the collapsing field only one other alternative, to be collected in a charge batt.

hope that helps!
Eric

[Jetijs]

I looked for an Attraction Motor thread but could not find one if someone reads this and has a link to Peter's Attraction Motor thread please post the link for us....

Have a most excellent day.....

Tj

This is the very same thread, only the info that you are looking for is probably a few tens of pages before this one.

[tjnlsn255]

Hi CyberXena,

I have just started working with Peter's circuit also....

On page 7 of this link to John Bedini's web site there is a picture of his sequential bipolar circuit and this one uses a Hall sensor for the trigger.....

I think that gives up an idea of how to do it......

Hope that helps.....

MOTOR DIAGRAMS AND LAB NOTES

Also, I am planning to try the TIP120 transistor myself on a Newman motor with Peter's circuit.... I will let you know what happens......LOL

I looked for an Attraction Motor thread but could not find one if someone reads this and has a link to Peter's Attraction Motor thread please post the link for us....

Have a most excellent day.....

Tj

[cyberXena]

Questions to anyone about the Lindemann circuit-

sorry about the position of the post here but as newbie I'm just getting "Sea Legs" here. I built a rotary attraction motor from an old vacuum motor with the circuit in the Lindemann video (I have the DVD ) - I had some questions about the circuit specifics. I know these posts are quite old but perhaps someone still reads these and may know the answers or can point to the info:

1. Why is the transistor in the circuit (on the october video) so large/
it is a MJL21194 is huge - 200 VDC@16 Amps! why not just use a Darlington like TIP120 or something.. ?

2. Does anyone have a circuit enhancement to accomodate using a hall effect ic instead of the reed switch? I will upload my proposal as soon as I can find the right place to do it.

Here are some pictures and a video link to what I have done...





YouTube - DSCF1566

[Eric]

yup that looks about the same as what i did with my first circuit.

i my self have been spending many of my free hours locked up in my shop in front of my mill and lathe working on my mechanical switching device for my 3rd motor. when done it will have 3 sets 4 of adjustable cam switches, each cam switch will open/close 2 electrical contacts(1 contact per side of the circuit to provide complete isolation in each circuit) giving me a total of 24 switches.
i will post some photos for you when i've finished it.

cheers!
Eric

[uusedman]

Ok, tkank's Peter
For what I understood from your post, the circuit should now look something like this:

Is that correct?
Thank you

Edit: Can I use the MJ2501 PNP transistor for triggering? It is a high power transistor, but I found some of them laying around. The max base current of this transistor is 0.2A, but that is the absolute maximum rating. Here is the data sheet:
MJ2501 pdf, MJ2501 description, MJ2501 datasheets, MJ2501 view ::: ALLDATASHEET :::
If I can use this, then I need no aditional parts and can start soldering.

Jetijs

I am going to use this circuit for my next model but not the opto light trigger, for now, I will stick with the magnetic reed switch.

[uusedman]

I am re reading this forum, my experiments are already stated. Though, I did learn and UNDERSTAND of what idea is begin propagated by doing these experiments

I am looking for a DC motor to act as a generator. Once I get one and install, I will rely some numbers.

[uusedman]

Last night I dedicated most of Research to investigating the different kind of pulse and how they react against inductor.

All I have to say is WOW.

After I am doing with my experimenting I post the numbers. The circuit that I had updated worked fine to check some numbers, however, if it does give me a problem, I will have to follow your route.

What I can say from last night session is the following primary results which are subject to change after conclusion of test.

I had a 10 mf capacitor as the timing of the pulse, which is around 2 pulse per second. The scope showed a long DC pulse which the inductor saturating in the very start of the pulse, which is what we are saying. The GOOD side of this long pulse setup is that the inductor does stabilize by releasing the magnetic flux established and clearing the way for the next pulse. This is important because the magnetic flux is recycled due to pulse duration. The magnetic residue was at minimal.

experiment 1:

Capacitor : 10 mf
Pulse Duration : 2 pulse - 1 second
Inductor saturation : Instant
Magnetic Residue : 5%
Capacitor Bank : incrementing in .30 volts per second
Electrical recycling : 95% (compared to the inductor stabilizing)
Conclusion: Greater recycling percent, the inductor is drained totally to the capacitor bank. However, wasted energy about 99% (if not more!) since the continuous saturation of the inductor as opposed to the pulse duration.

experiment 2:

Capacitor : .47 mf
Pulse Duration : 30 pulse - 1 second
Inductor saturation : Instant
Magnetic Residue : 20-40%
Capacitor Bank : incrementing in 3 volts per second
Electrical recycling : 80-60% (compared to the inductor stabilizing)
Conclusion: average recycling percent, the inductor is leaving magnetic residue which is limiting the amount of drainage to the capacitor bank. The amount of energy wasted here is still high, but more efficient than the previous trail since. The pulse duration has decreased to allow greater amount of energy to be recycled to the capacitor bank and less energy wasted.

Experiment 2 showed a greater amount of energy recycled however it is still limited. We can find a harmonic state to which the pulse is equivlent to the time of inductor releasing ALL magnetic flux. However, the better way is to find a way or use something to increase the rate of drainage from the inductor on off pulse state.


Experiment 3: The pulse that is from the collector the emitter showed a negative pulse which increase as time follows.

This stuff is amazing and I will post on pic or video this results once I conclude.

All figure are subject to change ( I feel like a banker saying this), I will keep you updated if there is a fault.

[Eric]

sure!! (lol i was right where you are in understanding not to long ago)

a 555 is an integrated circuit which means it has some (very small) compontents in it. the leg(pin) in the 555 timer that outputs your pulse is a transistor, most likely an NPN. without getting into the complications of whats inside a transistor, just think of it as a switch. the emitter is the connection on the side of the switch that goes to the source of charge. the collector is the side of the switch that goes to the load to be turned on. the base/gate is the lever/knob/push button that physically turns on/off the switch. however it gets a little more complicated than that. there are 2 flavors of transistors NPN(negative/positive/negative) or PNP(positive/negative/positive). the sequence is (emitter/base/collector), this tells us what side of the circuit your tranny turns on, an npn's emitter and collector can only properly switch on/off a pathway that leads from the negative side of the source to the load, its base/gate is activated from the positive side. a PNP is the reverse of this.

so if you want an NPN whose collector is N(negative) to "talk" to anouther NPN whose base is positive you need to make sure the N(collector) of your first NPN transistor is connected(talks) to the N(negative) base of a PNP tranny that tranny whose collector is P can now be switched on to "talk" to the P base of the next NPN tranny. believe me i've blown some trannys up as well because i didnt understand this eather.

if you want to see a circuit just go here Eric's page, Photos click the photo of my first motor circuit. i needed this circuit because the optocoupler i used has an NPN transistor and i need it to "talk" to my primary NPN transistor.

hope that helps!
Eric

[uusedman]

@eric

i understand and i don't. can u make a simple schematic of what you just said, please?

[Eric]

my guess is the output of the 555 timer is an npn transistor and your primary transistor is an npn transistor what you need is to wire your 555 timer to a pnp transistor with a anouther resistor bridge accross its base and then wire the pnp transistor to your primary npn transistor.

Eric

[uusedman]

already fried my first 555 timer this is an update to the circuit. Any thoughts how it happened, is much welcomed.

[uusedman]

nice! one thing you could add to the circuit are some simple manual switches so you can run the motor with the timer circuit and then run the motor without the timer circuit and compare how the motor performs.

Eric

Last night, I put this circuit on one coil, and it reacted well, however, I did not take results or compare achievements. Let's see tonight when I hook it up to 2-4 coils how it reacts with and without timer.

I purchased a shaft coupler to add 3 more flywheels, however, I had to go to a machine shop to make the exact measurements because the shaft is exactly 8 mm which is between 5/16 and 3/8.

[Eric]

nice! one thing you could add to the circuit are some simple manual switches so you can run the motor with the timer circuit and then run the motor without the timer circuit and compare how the motor performs.

Eric