Electric Motor Secrets

[Eric]

wow. i will resume tomorrow morning. is my circuit good enough of where i am at now? maybe i should focus more on the hardware, then move to the circuity.

oh and i would say its up to you which path you want to take electronic or mechanical. jetis is doing a wonderful job of following the electronic route.
i have a mill and a lathe and, as i have discovered, a bigger interest in the mechanical direction.

i would suggest you start with the circuit at the end of the dvd. take notes after each test you perform, and then ask questions that will lead you to test more ideas.

Eric

[Eric]

lol just to be clear the answer is not nessesarily spoken in the dvd so dont spend hours searching for the literal answer to "my" question. the purpose of having you watch it again is to get you to think more about the proccess, take notes where needed, write out your own questions. the question of duty cycles was one that popped into my head after i watched the dvd again, and me sharing my own question with you is a response to you asking the question "why is the amperage increasing when I load the motor with my hand?" so also keep your own question in your mind when reviewing dvd

cheers!!
Eric

[uusedman]

wow. i will resume tomorrow morning. is my circuit good enough of where i am at now? maybe i should focus more on the hardware, then move to the circuity.

thanks, this info is great, need more.

i will answer the dvd part tomorrow, after watching

@mark, thanks i did not know that

[Eric]

oh yea i learned, when useing an optical rpm reader, it is best to use a black matt (not shiny) painted background with a reflective dot sticker. this will give a more reliable reading. just paint the round spinning disk black and (if you dont have reflective dots with your rpm gun) go to a local hardware store and find the section that sells address number stickers for your mail box these usually have a reflective back ground behind the black letter, better yet, they might even have a blank reflective square used to denote a space in a number sequence. just cut one of those ones up into smaller pieces.

Eric

[Eric]

oh this IS fun to watch you work on this particular motor because i bought one as well when i first saw it pop up on this disscusion group, but i shelved mine for now because that one will be my version4 motor and currently i am still working on my version3 motor (a 2 pole bifilar modified pressure washer motor). my intention is to master the control circuit on my ver3 motor and then apply that circuit 4 times to the 8 pole motor version4 motor

ok back to your work.

@Eric I installed a neon bulb from the emitter to the collector to protect my transistor (Thanks ! ). My transistor runs well and does not go out easy anymore.

great! but it is still better not to do that, a better test is to dump the spike into diferent types of loads (batt, cap, filament lightbulb......) and watch how the motor behaves

Once I get the 16 gauge copper wire, i will have to glue my magnets, since that will increase my RPM. Plus, I want to play it safe so I have to do it any way. I did buy a photo trigger component, maybe, that will be better once i get the hang on this motor.

anouther idea you could do that is simpler and less electronic is to control the transistor with a mechanical switch. you could drill some holes into the back of the spinning disk mounted on the back of the motor and screw a post that sticks out an inch or so and let that act as a cam to trigger a mechanical switch just like ben teal did. you just need to find a good push button switch that does not stay on when you first depress it! in fact, if the switch is a good say 15 to 30 amp switch you wouldnt even need the transistor. you could still keep the ne2 neo bulb accross the switch terminals to protect against arcing if you disconnect the kick back. other than that i am not sure if you would still need a spark snubber circuit for the switch or not maybe some one else here can answer that.

I put 2 analog DC Ampere, the first 3 AMP and the second 1 AMP.

i am not familiar with the inner workings of an AC amp meter VS a DC amp meter. but in your video the one you are using to measure with is clearly an ac meter so i dont know if that is a very good reading or not. i would go ahead and just use the dc one you have there. i wouldnt bother to try and read amps on the kick back because that spike is comming back so fast and short that, while the analog is better than digital, it still will be to slow to respond and give you an accurate reading it will only be a lagged average.

The spike problem will have to be solved once I have the basics done

i disagree, this is part of the basics and its one of the easiest to fix, first
run a test with your power supply set at 24v and measure rpms and amps
then remove the power supply and, i saw you allready have 2 batteries in one of your videos, just grab a third for the kick back and wire 2 of your wet cell batteries in series for 24v and make sure the motor runs the same. if it runs faster and the amp meter might go up. then your power supply is not supplying enough amperage and is current limmiting your motor. in the future you can always use the power supply to trickle charge your batts while you run the motor.

Now get this, When Dr. Lindemann placed his hand on the rotor that did not increase the AMP, however, my motor increase the AMP according to the pressure i apply. What should I do?

i would say now you are getting a bit beyond the basics. personally i found a solution that fixes this problem involving anouther reed switch but thats a tiny bit more advanced. i would recomend more thoroughly investigating the basic circuit posted at the end of lindemans dvd. in fact i would watch it again if you are asking this question (i cant count how many times i watched that dvd over the last couple of years!!) lets see if i can pose a question to get your mind going. after you watch the dvd again ask your self how many diferent duty cycles are you dealing with in the simple circuit? is there more than one? let me know what you think and hopefully i can help by sharing my answer.

hope that helps!!
Eric

[Mark]

When you check your RPM's they are only be 1/4 your actual reading because your getting a reflection off all 4 magnets. You can either divide the total by 4 to get the actual RPM or put some non reflective coating on 3 of the magnets.

[uusedman]

This is the video with the improvements

YouTube - Rotary Attraction 2-2

@ Jetis, I thought when Dr. Lindemann did his video the AMP did not increase. We got to ask him.

[Jetijs]

uusedman, mu motor and also Stevens motor also increases the currentdraw under load. But with the increased current, the recovery also increases. So I guess that is ok.

[uusedman]

@Eric

I installed a neon bulb from the emitter to the collector to protect my transistor (Thanks ! ). My transistor runs well and does not go out easy anymore.

Once I get the 16 gauge copper wire, i will have to glue my magnets, since that will increase my RPM. Plus, I want to play it safe so I have to do it any way. I did buy a photo trigger component, maybe, that will be better once i get the hang on this motor.

I put 2 analog DC Ampere, the first 3 AMP and the second 1 AMP.

The spike problem will have to be solved once I have the basics done

Now get this, When Dr. Lindemann placed his hand on the rotor that did not increase the AMP, however, my motor increase the AMP according to the pressure i apply. What should I do?

I did upload a video of the improvements, once it is done, I will post the link.
Thanks for your help.

[Eric]

nice!

This is my latest update with the transistor firing position. It shows some progress toward getting the results we are yearning.

Next step is to put 16 gauge inductor, 50 - 75 turns.

P.S. I canceled the idea of triggering a inductor to pulse the motor, it was easier to do with a reed switch. Last night, All components stay intact and functioned properly

YouTube - Rotary Attraction 2-1

congratulations!!
a couple of suggestions
1. if you are going to disconnect the kick back while running the motor put an NE2 600v neon light bulb (like the ones recomended in bedini circuits) accross the emitter to collector. this bulb will only light up if you have no load connected with which to dump the spike. that large ticking sound is the kickback trying to discharge accross the next easiest pathway, most likely your tranny, so if you proceed with out it and say, up the voltage, you can ruin the tranny. i know, i have!!

2. keep in mind that as you improve the motor and up the rpms, your magnets are not glued down or otherwise very secure. this could be hazardous to you or your magnets if one should fly off!!

3. an annalog meter is a much better way to view the amperage ebay has some very nice cheap 2, 5, or 10 amp meters with shunts if you want them. i recomend all 3 so you can choose the best range for your tests. a digital meter has a sampling rate at a fixed frequency so it will give you irratic readings.

4. while an analog meter will give you a better reading, keep in mind that that it is an "average" reading, the goal with this motor is a large amp spike with a short duty cycle. and while the amp meter on the power supply is giving you an average consumption keep in mind the initial spike might require well over 5 amps in a short period of time. your supply might be current limmiting it. i know, because my first motor was a small fan motor about the size of my hand and while on average it ran at 150 to 300 milliamps it require more than the 3amps my supply could provide at the initiation of the "ontime". to fix this you can eather use "good wet cell auto, motorcycle, or ups batteries" these will not limit the current. or what i did for my power supply add some 1.2 farad audio caps in paralell with the power supply. the caps can handle the spike and the supply can more continually charge the the caps. just keep in mind that caps are leaky and you have to account for that when determining overall efficiency.

5. try moveing the reed slightly back and forth while the motor is running you will be suprised that this changes the timeing and the rpms will increase or decrease.

hope that helps!!
Eric

[uusedman]

This is my latest update with the transistor firing position. It shows some progress toward getting the results we are yearning.

Next step is to put 16 gauge inductor, 50 - 75 turns.

P.S. I canceled the idea of triggering a inductor to pulse the motor, it was easier to do with a reed switch. Last night, All components stay intact and functioned properly

YouTube - Rotary Attraction 2-1

[tjnlsn255]

Bedini G-Field Generator?

Is there a thread or a link to a document that describes the Bedini G-Field Generator?

I read something about this device that it actually speeds up when under load..... Excellent....

Thank you and have a most excellent weekend!

Tj

[Jetijs]

don't know. maybe the induced current in the trigger inductor was too low. I think lighty or Eric could answer this better

[uusedman]

I am going to buy some more reed switches and transistors, they keep blowing .

The following is a circuit I tried to make for the switching, it was not working. give me your thoughts on it.

uusedman, I don't know why your reed switch keeps blowing, I had no problems with that circuit when I worked on my first attraction motor, I even used much smaller and weaker reed switches and they worked just fine, the onlu problem was that the contacts were getting magnetized because of the use of strong neo magnets. That is why I switched to optical switching.
I don't know about the inductor switching, but you can try this out and see how it works. Good luck!

[Jetijs]

uusedman, I don't know why your reed switch keeps blowing, I had no problems with that circuit when I worked on my first attraction motor, I even used much smaller and weaker reed switches and they worked just fine, the onlu problem was that the contacts were getting magnetized because of the use of strong neo magnets. That is why I switched to optical switching.
I don't know about the inductor switching, but you can try this out and see how it works. Good luck!