Motor Generators

[Turion]

That's why each coil has to have the core face ground off flat with the face of the coil holder. These two coil holder plates holding the coils back (one on each side of the rotor) are held apart by four precision spacers at the four corners, and the rotor is precision centered between them with spacers made by the machinist. This is why, when it wasn't right, I couldn't just jump on it and get it done. PLUS, the wobble I was seeing was definitely in the shaft, which was bent in shipping to me. So it wasn't all my imagination. We had a new shaft made with the plate on it that the rotor bolts to.

Got the hand taken care of. Now just have to wait for it to heal. My splint comes off to take showers, so that's nice. Always had to have the plaster cast before. Can't tell you the number of times I have broken things in car wrecks and football games in my life, so kinda used to having a hand in a cast. Had a break in my wrist in high school that they ended up rebreaking twice and putting two pins in to get it right, and I was in casts for well over a year. That was the end of football for me. Had to drive back and forth between Yuma where I lived and Phoenix AZ to see a specialist at least every two weeks, and it was like a six hour round trip. That got old quick, and I was a KID, not an old goat like I am now. Didn't have power steering, so one-handing it all the way built up muscles. And it was a four speed, so shifting was an adventure. At least NOW I have power steering and an automatic. Too easy.



Hope to finish up the coils today and at least get production numbers from one coil pair so I have an idea of total machine output. But this is real life, and every day is an adventure. The guy next door to me was burning big piles of leaves yesterday, and let them burn out. But during the night we had incredible heavy winds come up that fanned the embers, and I have video footage of him at two in the morning out there digging dirt, throwing it on the flames, and trying to put out fires with the wind blowing embers everywhere, mostly right into the trees across the street. He could have burned down the whole neighborhood in the middle of the night. You never know what the day will bring.

[BroMikey]

I'll bet your high karate feel's bad 3 days runnin? I just did 5 days running so I can feel ya bro..... I have been stuck in one position in a car all week with a 4-6 hr range per day drive time plus Dr. calls.

Take your time an enjoy this most critical part of the build. It took me forever to gap my rotors. I know yours cannot be adjusted like mine. Then I got to thinking. What if Dave had a 2,000ths plastic shim to go in front of his coils? That way if one gap needed to be adjusted, you could take a shim out or put one in.

It is critical that each gap be the same as the next one or a push pull effect will cause the rotor to jitter.

[Turion]

Got it. I was confused by the phrase "rotor DO 40,000ths". How do yo "do" a gap. Now I understand what you meant. I thought maybe you meant 40,000rpm and the "ths" was some kind of typo. I have no idea what the current gap is. Haven't measured it.

I doubt you can EVER get the kind of precision you want out of plastic rotors. But again, this is only a PROTOTYPE to prove concept, NOT a production model. Possibly an aluminum or steel rotor ENCASED in plastic thick enough to eliminate the eddy currents or the attraction of the magnets to steel would be the optimal rotor for this type of machine. I'll leave that to the next generation of folks. I just want to prove it works.

I have had an extremely busy morning and have not gotten downstairs to file on the cores yet. Hopefully I can do that. Since I traveled to Sacramento 3 different times this week for different things, all related to breaking my hand, I am way behind on things at home and have been catching up. But tomorrow is Saturday and if I haven't gotten this done by the end of the day tomorrow, the guys will come on Sunday and help me out. So one way or another it will get done. So getting back to work now or it will NEVER get done.

[BroMikey]

I have no idea what 40,000ths means.

Gap? 60,000ths is what I thought your target gap is. Less gap drives up the power output but it would grind

20,000ths- 40,000ths is a standard minimum for motors and generators

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVIw8ERZsFw

[Turion]

I have no idea what 40,000ths means.

[BroMikey]

to bad that rotor won't do 40,000ths

[Turion]

It was clamped when they cut it off, but small burrs around the outside edge are enough to keep it from fitting. It will be fixed tomorrow..

[BroMikey]

Put a hose clamp on it and squeeze it back together. They should have sanded the cores off with it clamped
glad you found the problem. no need to go back to the old coils then. that's way to much gap. maybe now you'll get 150v under load

As soon as you clamp the cores back together it will be longer. Use a set of calipers to measure the swelled up portion, then grind it?

[Turion]

The core of the coil was well over 1/4” from the coil because the core was not fitting in its hole. Because the coils are inset, I didn’t realize this until I got those bad results and started checking EVERYTHING. Will see how it does tomorrow after I file the two coils to custom fit the holes they go in.

https://youtu.be/jmoP3mVy8gA

[Turion]

...At no point did I get a “high voltage” and then have it suddenly go down. It never got above the voltage output I am seeing at 2800 RPM.

The voltage never, at any time, got above 64 volts. Not at 0 RPM, not at 1400 and not at 2800.

Just spoke to one of my partners, who was supposed to call me back last night and just now called. He says open voltage on the machine was 230 volts and under load was 123 volts with these coils, so something is definitely haywire.

And yes, I have ten moire of the exact same coil to try.

But first I am going to try a pair of the old iron core coils. I know EXACTLY what those coils put out on the old machine. I watched them run for years. A pair would burn out a 100 watt lightbulb instantly, and also two 100 watt bulbs in series. So they output something between 200 and 300 watts. Very close to 300 watts, because on occasion they would burn out the 300 watt bulb if the RPM got much over 2800 while testing for speed up under load.

[BroMikey]

I tried this morning connecting the bulb .

The voltage climbed steadily as I VERY SLOWLY ......

... and then had it suddenly go down. .

That's what I mean right there, "it went down" do you have any other coils?

[Turion]

I tried this morning connecting the bulb immediately and putting the volt meter across the load. The voltage climbed steadily as I VERY SLOWLY increased the input voltage to the motor with the Variac and bridge rectifier combo. At no point did I get a “high voltage” and then had it suddenly go down. It never got above the voltage output I am seeing at 2800 RPM.

[BroMikey]

Amps come from strands wound in parallel and connected in parallel.

it rules out a problem with the connections.

Think of a graph that shows a peak at 500hz but at 1100hz the curve goes back down to the bottom. You may get your voltage at 700ft now not 1000ft. Or speed up comes at a lower rpm?

This is what happened to Thane, once he went to 24 magnets back to back the freq went up so his coil length could be shortened therefore with double the magnets half the length of coil strand and more parallel connections in your case.

Where is the new null point of this system? Can it be reached at 1400rpm?

[Turion]

Amps come from strands wound in parallel and connected in parallel. You get the same amps with four short strands connected in series as you do one long strand. And if both are the same total length. The voltage is the same.

These exact same coils on the other machine had much greater output. Same RPM. Same size rotor. Just it had half as many magnets.

Working on it. Just double checked, and rotor magnets ARE N/S. THAT'S A RELIEF!!!!!!
Guess next step is to check individual output of each wire on the coil. Even if I check them open voltage, if they are all the same, it rules out a problem with the connections.

[BroMikey]

Yes Joe was the nicest guy and would help everyone. He just built his new house and boom.

On the generator coils things I think about.

Critical freq, herz and XL (aka inductive reactance)

5-6 magnet version at 2800 R's 230-280hz

12 magnet at 2800 R's 560Hz

24 magnets 1120Hz

1" magnets, 3/4" magnets

How quickly does a noticeable speed up under load take place with the 300watt bulb switched on and off. If speed up come way sooner you may have to shorten. You have no options with these coils for testing what is best. 12 strands is better and way more amps if I am right.

You might be getting a bottle neck at high freq's. A restriction has occurred.

Put an old iron core in there the same 3 strands and same thing?

switch rotors?

Pull out 12 magnets?