Basic Free Energy Device

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Conformity

Alright,

Just got done editing my posts per Dave's wisdom. Things can get out of hand way too easy here. Years from now, or even weeks, it can easily be unintelligible.

Sorry about my misunderstanding your quandry over the amps. Looks like you're solving the mystery. Glad to hear that less expensive analyzers are available. I think this will help us not only learn more and quicker, but we might try to standardize the arrangement of our data so we can compare each other's data at a glance instead of having to translate his 3rd column is my 1st column, etc.

Right now I've been working with my two battery system and I'm pleased so far. My plan is to replace the switching with a pulse motor that has two inputs and alternates between two outputs (input from B1's Boost Module goes though motor and outputs to B2; input from B2's Boost Module goes though motor and outputs to B1). When the commutator switches to one side, it disconnects from the other, and visa versa. It does the same thing as the Arduino plus gives added opportunity to make more power.

We'll see.

Bob

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Alternating Boost Charging

Hey,

I'm not sure about having a resistor on the feed to the Boost Module. I put one on each battsry after my second run and the 3rd and 4th runs were disappointing. So I took it off and ran a 30 minute test and things improved greatly.

Started with:

B1 at 12.44V, 11.02 mOhms, 240 CCA
B2 at 12.44V, 11.15 mOhms, 237 CCA

Ended, after 6 hours rest:

B1 at 12.44V, 10.47 mOhms, 253 CCA
B2 at 12.44V, 10.79 mOhms, 245 CCA

In one 30 minute run my batteries are back on track having the lowest impedance and highest CCA yet, even though some voltage has been lost (which did not happen before I used the resistor).

This may or may not apply to your setup, but I thought you should know.

Bob

[level]

Hello citfta. Ok, thanks for taking the time to re-check that. Just goes to show how careful we have to be in double and triple checking our measurements. It is so easy to overlook something or make an error, or to have a bad connection, etc.

[citfta]

Mystery solved

OK, It looks like one of my meters was way off. I had tried three different meters on the input side and they all agreed. I had not swapped out the meter on the side going to the battery from the cap. I found another meter I had forgotten I had that is an analogue meter with a range of 0 to 1.5 amps. When I put it on the input to the boost circuit I get .89 amps. When I put it on the output of the boost circuit I get .52 amps. When I put it on the out put of the cap going to the charge battery I get .55 amps. Of course in that position it is bouncing around a lot because of the cap dumping. So no power out more than in. Thanks level for taking the time to help check it out. But it does look like this is a very good circuit for reconditioning batteries.

Now when I get some more batteries reconditioned I want to go back and try Dave's circuit of using the booster to turn the motor faster and also charge the 2 batteries in parallel at the same time. His system like that has been running for some time now with no evidence of the batteries going down in charge.

Later,
Carroll

[citfta]

Hi level,

I will have to connect another meter to the circuit to check what is going through the resistor as my meter is actually after the cap and measures what is going to the charge battery. I'll check it that way in a few minutes and get back to you. I don't really have good meters for this as most of mine have a scale of 0-5 amps and therefore don't read the lower value going into the boost circuit that well.

On another note I got back home in time to bid on another battery analyzer and won that one. I got the Cen-Tech one like Dave and Bob have for $49 and free shipping so I should have it sometime this coming week.

I'll be back in a few minutes after I connect another meter to the circuit.

Carroll

[level]

Quite different results now

Hello Citfta. Well, I double checked my calculations from my previous post and I had made an error on the calculation of the series resistor power dissipation. It should have been 0.1A^2 x 33 = 330 mW
I guess that's what happens when you rush. Sorry about the calculation error.

Also, I now get quite different results with my test circuit. What I did was disconnect a number of the aligator clip leads I was using, as it was a bit too cluttered of a circuit on my work table with all the leads going all over, and a bit hard to check over to make sure there were no incorrect or poor connections or whatever. I reconnected the circuit being careful to make sure everything was connected as it should be, but now I don't get more current out than in.

I compared my analog ammeter to the RMS current readings from my scope and they were actually pretty close, but my analog ammeter gives an average current and my scope calculates the RMS value for the current waveform. The measurements are still within a couple of mA or so for different current magnitudes, so the analog ammeter doesn't appear to have been the problem.
However now having reconnected my circuit I no longer get higher current out than in. I have checked my newly redone circuit layout very carefully several times and it should be correct. I must have had something connected wrong previously as best as I can tell.

With my newly checked over circuit, and using one ohm CSR resistors to measure the boost converter input and output current with my scope, I now measure 140mA RMS in from the run battery, (measured in the run battery postive wire as we need to do here), and I measured 80 mA RMS out of the boost converter positive wire. I could only make one current measurement at a time using the scope, because if I were to have connected both scope probes at the same time, the ground connections on the scope probes would have formed a ground loop and caused a short in the circuit. I did compare the scope measurements to my analog ammeter and also to a digital ammeter, and all ammeter current measurements were close to the scope measurements. The only probem is now I can no longer replicate your results.

If you measure your input and output current in the same place I am, as indicated in the following diagram, do you still measure a larger current out than in?

[level]

Thanks level.
Those are some interesting power calculations! Did someone slip up and let an OU device get into production? This is turning into a more and more interesting puzzle. Thanks for your efforts. I will be gone here shortly for an ice cream social at church. So it will be later this evening when I get back for some more testing and reconditioning of my batteries.
Carroll

Hello citfta. Since things are just not adding up at all, I am still thinking that there may well be something off with my current measurements or something major I am overlooking here. I'll see how things compare when I check carefully using my scope.

[citfta]

Hi Dave,

Glad you are able to post from your out of town place. That is a good idea about labeling the circuits. When I get back from overeating on the ice cream I will see if I can get that done with my circuits. I think I only have a couple in this thread.

Later,
Carroll

[Turion]

Thread

Carroll,
Actually this is a perfect place for this kind of discussion. One of the parts I said we needed for a Basic Free Energy Device was a circuit that let us run the motor for free on the potential difference, similar to the 3BGS or a Tesla switch, and that's how this got started. I asked Matt if there was a way to boost the output voltage either coming out of the primary batteries in series or out of the motor before it hit battery 3, and he came up with this little boost circuit and a schematic for me to mess with.

I am still out f town, so can't do anything on my own, but I do notice that unless folks are following closely they may be terribly confused. I know Bob has posted several circuits and has posted results for them at different times. He has sent ME several by email. Carroll, I don't know how many different circuits YOU have posted, and now Level is posting circuits. And I have posted circuits. If Bob could label his B1, B2, B3, etc, when posting the circuit and results, and if You Carroll can label yours C1, C2 etc. as we move down the road and develop new circuits and post results, it will always be clear which results go with which circuit. So if I post results for Bob's circuit or Carroll's I can let people know which one I am trying. There may be a circuit someone tried and left in the dust as they moved on, and I may see some potential in it. It would be nice to be able to identify it without having to repost it every time and using up your allotted attachments. If you guys went back and edited your posts we would have a record from the beginning before this gets too far out of hand.

Thanks you guys for all your hard work, and most importantly for having an open mind. Closed minds mean closed doors behind which, opportunity remains locked away.

Dave

[citfta]

Thanks level.

Those are some interesting power calculations! Did someone slip up and let an OU device get into production? This is turning into a more and more interesting puzzle. Thanks for your efforts. I will be gone here shortly for an ice cream social at church. So it will be later this evening when I get back for some more testing and reconditioning of my batteries.

Carroll

[level]

Hello Citfta. The odd thing about this is that if you do the basic calculations on my example test results, the power draw from the run battery works out to 882mW,
and the power consumption just in the 33 ohm series resistor alone works out to 3.3W. Edit: Woops! that was a calculation error! The 33 ohm resistor is dissipating 0.1A^2 x 33 ohms = 330 mW

The series resistor is getting hot so it is definitely consuming more than a little bit of power. My cheapo analog ammeter could be giving me bad current measurements however.
I am going to try one more test and use two one ohm CSR resistors and my scope to double check my current measurements. I will post up the results later. I have some things to do first.

Yes, I could try the battery swapping in a series of tests over the next few days as another way to double check what we are seeing using current measurements.

[citfta]

Hi Bob,

Actually we are talking about MORE amps on the output than on the input. At least more going to the charge battery. And level has just posted he tried it again with his meter right after the boost module and before the resistor. That is why we are scratching our heads. Or at least I am. I don't have any hair up there. Maybe level is just shaking his head. Anyway this make an interesting puzzle.

If you have time before you go back to work try just charging one battery for a while and letting it rest and then charge the other and letting them rest. Going back and forth and then checking them with the analyzer to see what is going on. Maybe an hour charge and an hour rest and then repeat with the other battery. If our meters are not lying to us you should see an increase in both batteries. If not then that would be another puzzle to try and figure out.

Later,
Carroll

PS: Dave, sorry to take over your thread with all this other stuff but maybe we will learn something out of all this. Drop me an email if you want us to move this to another thread. We can start a new one or move it to my thread for open discussion of projects on this forum.

[[email protected]]

Alternating Boost Charging

Back again and with more bad news on this end. The first two tests were good but the following two have been going in the wrong direction. Here's the results of my 4th test.

Starting with:

B1 at 12.44V, 10.88 mOhms, 243 CCA
B2 at 12.44V, 11.09 mOhms, 238 CCA

Ended and rested 3.75 hours:

B1 at 12.44V, 11.02 mOhms, 240 CCA
B2 at 12.44V, 11.15 mOhms, 237 CCA

I might not get but one more test in this week, as I'm gettting back to work this week. We'll see.

You guys keep talking about less amps on the output side of the Boost Module. I would expect it. Doesn't the Module convert amps to volts to give you higher voltage? So wouldn't the amps be lower (A x V = W). If you have a certain amount of Watts running around and you convert some of them to higher voltage...amps gotta be less.

I may be wrong, after all, look at my last tests! lol

Bob

[citfta]

Glad you are having fun with this circuit. These kind of finds are what keep me looking at the possibility of free energy or what ever you want to call it. At one time I had my Tesla Switch run for a full week and it was lighting some leds and supplying the switching power and the batteries never went down at all. I could never get it to do that again. But this circuit seems to want to work every time for not only me but now you also. So maybe we are getting closer to understanding a little bit of what it takes to get a self sufficient circuit. Dave and Matt have been working on this much more than I have but we have all worked on this for over 3 years and Dave much longer. This little boost circuit was just something Dave saw and wondered if it would be useful. So Matt gave him some ideas for how he could use it and then some of the rest of us have tried using it in other ways.

If you have the time it would be nice if you could try swapping your batteries back and forth some to see if you could get an increase in overall voltage. I know that is not the best way to judge but an overall increase would still be an indication something odd was actually happening. Before I realized I was only reconditioning my charge battery I wanted to charge for an hour then an hour rest and then swap and repeat. I don't have two known good batteries yet to try that with. I have a lot of ones with shorted cells I need to take back to the salvage yard and trade for some more to play with. I am using the lawn and garden tractor size batteries. I think they are called U1. I can get them for $5 a piece at the salvage yard and if they don't recondition I take them back and turn them in for the lead salvage price. So it cost me very little to have a good selection of batteries to play with.

Later,
Carroll

[level]

Hello citfta. Too bad about the battery analyzer bidding, but you can still get them a bit cheaper on EBay than from some stores even at the buy it now price. That will be a good tool to have for checking battery charge level. I don't have one as well.

I moved the ammeter right before the 33 ohm series resistor as a sanity check, and I still measured about the same current ratios, abut 70mA in and about 100mA out, for a similar duty cycle as used in my first test.
Something odd really seems to be going on there. Still can't explain it.
I am using little 5Ah 12V SLA batteries for these tests.

Here is my updated test circuit:



Edit: I also saw the same result as you when I removed the 33 ohm series resistor. The input current
to the boost converter increased quite a bit. That series resistor seems to be serving some important purpose.