The bistander thread

[BroMikey]

Hello Turion,

your disbelief of Newton's Laws. you're confusing core loss with cogging.

So, end of argument please.

it after 6 years is ended and the most silly argument I have ever heard of this side of 7th grade
you did not get enough formal schooling to ask important questions. instead you pudder, diddle and piddle in the mire while serious progress is taking place. No special data sets will be given, tho it obviously exists. That must hurt. You earned it.

[bistander]

You cannot see the effects with one coil. It takes a real rotor with multiple coils, and then you realize that every coil added causes an EXPONENTIAL increase in amp draw OR an exponential DECREASE in motor RPM. One or the other. Choose your poison. 1. INCREASED AMP DRAW AFFECTS THE TOTAL INPUT TO THE SYSTEM.
2. DECREASED RPM AFFECTS THE TOTAL OUTPUT OF THE GENERATOR COILS

But bi has declared that I don't know what I am talking about and magnetic neutralization has NO effect on the performance of the system. He is just WRONG. And always will be. He says he did the experiment. Where is the video to prove it? I have SHOWN my videos because he never takes my word for anything. Where is his? Let's see the 7th grade science experiment you did bi. We can't wait! I did a series of THREE videos with the old clunker machine. One showing it running with NO coils (and their cores) in it. One with about 7 coils (and their cores) and no magnetic adjustment, drawing MASSIVE AMPS. And one where it was all adjusted with all 12 coils (and their cores) in it drawing 12 amps, and we eventually got it down to 7 amps.

I ran across major problems as I was putting the generator together today that I can overcome, but as usual, it takes time.

1. I need twelve 1/4 20 stainless (non-magnetic if possible) machine screws 6" long to use to adjust the opposition magnets on the stator. I assumed I could get them at Lowes. They have nothing over 4" and neither does anyone else in our small town. So they are on order from Amazon and won't be here until Tuesday. This was a change in the way the magnets are adjusted from Black Beauty that won't allow the adjustment magnets to come in contact with the rotor NO MATTER WHAT, which makes me a happy camper. But I didn't realize that getting the required length machine screws would be such a problem.

2. I wasn't really thinking about my test board until I mounted it back on the cart I build the motor on today. I needed a BREAK from winding coils. I noticed that my gauges only go up to 150 volts AC, because my previous coils (with cores) only put out 120-130 volts and that's all I needed. But these new coils (with cores) put out 270 volts, so the meters won't give accurate information. That means I need all new meters. They are on the way.

3. I was using one 300 watt bulb per coil (with cores) pair as my test load, and they were getting a bit over rated input, but they did fine. Now the new coils (with cores) will be outputting 400+ watts, so I need to find some 400 watt bulbs, or put a couple 200 watt bulbs in series. As you can see from the picture, my board is not set up for that. So I will be dealing with that tonight and tomorrow, either ordering some larger bulbs if I can find them on Amazon, or ordering the holders to wire two 200 watt bulbs in series. One way or another.

This machine will be TESTED when I have it back together. Not before. I never said that Monday was a "do or die testing date." I was hoping to have everything back together then, but I will have it all together when it is all together, and then it will be tested. Or maybe NOT. I am trying to figure out how to use two coil outputs to make it self run. If I can do that, no reason to have it tested is there? Oh, except bi will never believe it. But I don't really CARE about that anyway. I know what I know, and that's good enough for me. And if I can do a self runner demo for the folks I am working with, that will be good enough. And it will save me $700.00.

Oh, and by the way. I NEVER said adding a coil (or a core) to the generator turning at speed causes cogging now did I? Show me where I said that. You can't. Just another example of you attempting to put words in my mouth.

Hello Turion,

I did ask that you not argue the point, but you can't resist. I didn't say you said "adding a coil (or a core) to the generator turning at speed causes cogging", now did I, exactly? But that has been your contention from the start, back with your Mr. Potato Head comment and your disbelief of Newton's Laws. You call it magnetic attraction, hence your claimed "need" for "magnetic neutralization". But what you describe "is" cogging, by technical definition. So I call it by the correct terminology recognizing it for what it is. Similar to your continued confusion of "coil" and "core", you're confusing core loss with cogging.

So, end of argument please. Yes, a missed test date claim last Monday. And even more delays and excuses. Well, someday, maybe you'll get the guts to actually test it and show the truth. Maybe?
bi

[BroMikey]

What? I built a fixture and tested and it behaved exactly as I predicted.

[Turion]

How about that bet? Put up or shut up. Coward

[bistander]

... It’s one of the principles my machine is BASED on. YOU’RE the one who hasn’t done it. I’m done with you

What? I built a fixture and tested and it behaved exactly as I predicted. You refused to do it in the manner which eliminates variables and clearly shows the principles involved. You rather keep on with your erroneous assumptions and fake science. I show the path to truth. You choose not to even look.

[alexelectric]

Mr. Dave gave many details of his proposal for electric power generation, data, videos, diagrams and his concepts, he showed prototypes, he explained again and again his bases and principles of operation of his generator.
All that so that the data would be had so that whoever wanted to replicate it could do so.
The continuous search for how to continue improving his generator, for someone who had to fulfill his family and work commitments, is a lot, for someone who is an experimenter working in his home workshop, it is worth a lot, there are all his writings and proposals, which always shared, he is a very capable experimenter and researcher, he follows his ideas and proposals for improvement.
All this regardless of whether you did not agree with him, he will follow his goals.
I hope Mr. Dave is well, that the decision that he has made, regarding his project, is his project, he always entrusted others to build it and improve it.
My admiration and respect for Mr. Dave

A pleasure to hear from you again Mr. Dave, go ahead with your proposals and project, greetings

[Turion]

So make the bet. You’re so sure you’re right. Put your money where your mouth is or just shut up. Coward. Lurker. You don’t have the guts to make a bet. That’s apparent to everyone. You take pot shots from the dark but won’t come out into the light. I’ve done the 7th grade science experiment a hundred times. It’s one of the principles my machine is BASED on. YOU’RE the one who hasn’t done it. I’m done with you

[bistander]

Still avoiding that bet aren’t you. You don’t even mention it. So here’s another “truth” for you. You will never take that bet because you know I’m correct.

When I FIRST brought up magnetic neutralization your response was that cogging goes away at speed. Yes, the jerking as each magnet passes each coil SMOOTHS OUT at speed, but the effect on the motor is still there. Increased amp draw or reduced RPM. Take your choice. It’s simple physics. The attraction of the magnets to the core is THERE and it is not going away or the core wouldn’t produce electricity in the wires.

I tried to explain that the magnet is attracted to the core on approach and attracted backwards as it leaves and these two forces are equal. But there is a moment in time when the coil and core are perfectly aligned that is outside this equation. You did your best to belittle me and claim that there is nothing to this. But if you are right, and the attraction forward is cancelled out by the attraction backwards, and that’s all there is to it, there would be NO cogging in the first place now would there? The flywheel effect or “an object in motion tends to remain in motion until acted on by another force” reduces the cogging, and smooths it out, but it is still there. It is physics and you can’t change it. When I said it increases with every coil added, you demanded proof. I guess the laws of physics weren’t enough for you. They appear to be good enough when you want to use them to belittle me but not when they prove you are an idiot.l

But here is a very clear example for you. The motor is spinning the rotor at Constant speed. When you add one coil there is hardly any change in RPM or amp draw that is noticeable. Let’s say amp draw is constant and RPM is reduced by X. Add a second coil and again, RPM is reduced by x. It SHOULD be barely noticeable. But, because the motor slowed slightly, the effect of the FIRST coil on the rotor lasts longer and is greater. It increases to X plus Y. And because it had a greater effect on slowing the rotor, the effect of the second coil is greater. Each coil added has a greater effect on the speed of the rotor than the prior coil in a kind of exponential curve. Because each coil added slows the rotor a tiny bit on its own, it allows each previous coil to interact with EVERY MAGNET on the rotor for a longer period of time. ALL advantage of the “flywheel effect” is lost. And either the rotor slows way down or the amp draw goes through the roof. Adding one coil to my original machine caused it to draw hardly any more measurable amps. Adding 12 coils caused the amp draw of the motor to go up to over 36 amps. And you say “magnetic neutralization has no effect on the output of the machine.” It just shows how truly stupid you are. Or you KNOW the truth and are being paid to try and discredit me. Which is it? Loss of RPM = loss of output. If you had ever built anything you would know these simple FACTS.

Here is a video of Bkack Beauty running at speed. I have a motor controller that allows me to set the amp draw so it CAN’T go up. What happens when I start adding coils? By the time I get to the 4th coil, the motor is dying. EVERYTHING I have shared here I have seen on the bench. YOU have not. You build nothing. You contribute nothing. You are worth nothing. It isn’t what you THINK you know that matters, it’s what actually happens when you build something and run it in the bench. This video was made weeks ago and I shared it with bro Mikey at the time. Black Beauty no longer exists. It has been disassembled for parts.


https://youtube.com/watch?v=IwDvbgTPCzg&feature=share

How about that bet? I could use the $$$ to finance my builds. You don’t need it. You never build anything. Too busy running your mouth.

I'm kinda busy at this time but did a quick read and view of the video. Still couldn't do the 7th grade science experiment, could you. You're afraid of that. And I see you inserting a core, not a coil. Still having trouble telling those apart, aren't you. The behavior shown in the video of the speed reduction when the core is inserted while the motor supply is current limited is entirely consistent with an increase in core loss due to the added core. Just like I've said. If you had added your anti cogging magnet like I asked, you'd seen that it did not reduce the core loss (or the additional load caused by that core loss). Too bad you didn't try that. You could have learned something.

Just curious on your new arrangement of magnets and anti-cogging stuff. Care to share? Also, what were you using for core material when you could not generate adequate voltage?

I have a bit more time now. You say:

When I said it increases with every coil added, you demanded proof. I guess the laws of physics weren’t enough for you. They appear to be good enough when you want to use them to belittle me but not when they prove you are an idiot.

Like I was just saying. You are incorrect about about what I was telling you, putting words in my mouth, and still don't have a clue as to what you are talking about. Study angular momentum to understand why the effects of cogging diminish as rotational velocity increases.

Newton's laws of motion (physics) are good enough for me. You are the guy who knows more and belittles himself by ridiculing Newton and his work. So show how "laws of physics" prove me an idiot. Go ahead, make my day. And use actual quotes of my posts, not your made-up misinterpretation.

But like always, cogging doesn't contribute, one way or other, to power at rated load and speed, so your anti-cogging or magnetic neutralization schemes are irrelevant to your claimed performance.
bi

[Turion]

Still avoiding that bet aren’t you. You don’t even mention it. So here’s another “truth” for you. You will never take that bet because you know I’m correct.

When I FIRST brought up magnetic neutralization your response was that cogging goes away at speed. Yes, the jerking as each magnet passes each coil SMOOTHS OUT at speed, but the effect on the motor is still there. Increased amp draw or reduced RPM. Take your choice. It’s simple physics. The attraction of the magnets to the core is THERE and it is not going away or the core wouldn’t produce electricity in the wires.

I tried to explain that the magnet is attracted to the core on approach and attracted backwards as it leaves and these two forces are equal. But there is a moment in time when the coil and core are perfectly aligned that is outside this equation. You did your best to belittle me and claim that there is nothing to this. But if you are right, and the attraction forward is cancelled out by the attraction backwards, and that’s all there is to it, there would be NO cogging in the first place now would there? The flywheel effect or “an object in motion tends to remain in motion until acted on by another force” reduces the cogging, and smooths it out, but it is still there. It is physics and you can’t change it. When I said it increases with every coil added, you demanded proof. I guess the laws of physics weren’t enough for you. They appear to be good enough when you want to use them to belittle me but not when they prove you are an idiot.

But here is a very clear example for you. The motor is spinning the rotor at Constant speed. When you add one coil there is hardly any change in RPM or amp draw that is noticeable. Let’s say amp draw is constant and RPM is reduced by X. Add a second coil and again, RPM is reduced by x. It SHOULD be barely noticeable. But, because the motor slowed slightly, the effect of the FIRST coil on the rotor lasts longer and is greater. It increases to X plus Y. And because it had a greater effect on slowing the rotor, the effect of the second coil is greater. Each coil added has a greater effect on the speed of the rotor than the prior coil in a kind of exponential curve. Because each coil added slows the rotor a tiny bit on its own, it allows each previous coil to interact with EVERY MAGNET on the rotor for a longer period of time. ALL advantage of the “flywheel effect” is lost. And either the rotor slows way down or the amp draw goes through the roof. Adding one coil to my original machine caused it to draw hardly any more measurable amps. Adding 12 coils caused the amp draw of the motor to go up to over 36 amps. And you say “magnetic neutralization has no effect on the output of the machine.” It just shows how truly stupid you are. Or you KNOW the truth and are being paid to try and discredit me. Which is it? Loss of RPM = loss of output. If you had ever built anything you would know these simple FACTS.

Here is a video of Bkack Beauty running at speed. I have a motor controller that allows me to set the amp draw so it CAN’T go up. What happens when I start adding coils? By the time I get to the 4th coil, the motor is dying. EVERYTHING I have shared here I have seen on the bench. YOU have not. You build nothing. You contribute nothing. You are worth nothing. It isn’t what you THINK you know that matters, it’s what actually happens when you build something and run it in the bench. This video was made weeks ago and I shared it with bro Mikey at the time. Black Beauty no longer exists. It has been disassembled for parts.


https://youtube.com/watch?v=IwDvbgTPCzg&feature=share

How about that bet? I could use the $$$ to finance my builds. You don’t need it. You never build anything. Too busy running your mouth.

[bistander]

What unusual condition?

You asked me a question. I simply provided the answer. Are you telling us that information is false? Hmmm. Imagine that. It is difficult to know what to believe from you guys. And we know your identities, or so we've been told. Gosh. It was right there on the interwebs. Doesn't that make it so?

Maybe it's all BS. Except for the truth. The truth is. And remains. And is independent of the source. I present the truth in my posts. That is reality. It doesn't matter who I am. The truth is, regardless.

Is it true that your device produces significantly more real output power than it uses as input? Find out. Stay tuned.
bi

[Turion]

Or maybe, since he and I may end up in court some day, he is trying to establish that I have some kind of issue that should prohibit me from taking legal action of some kind. You never know what somebody is thinking. But that doesn't give YOU the right to spread libel now does it? I mean from a legal standpoint.

libel:
A published false statement that is damaging to a person's reputation; a written defamation.

How about that bet? Coward. (Not a false statement. Besides, no one knows who you are since you're hiding in the dark, so we can say whatever we want about you and it does no damage to your reputation. You have none. You don't exist. You're a made up cartoon character.)

[bistander]

What unusual condition? Are you a doctor? Have you spoken to my doctor? Nope. Is that what you are reduced to? Spreading rumors about me? That's pitiful, and low, even for YOU.

And once again you avoid putting your money where your BIG mouth is.
Attached is a picture of the order I just placed for 5 more spools of wire which will make 10 coils. I only have enough wire to make two more, so I had to order almost $700 worth of wire. Again, I am putting MY money where my mouth is. Coward.

The generator produces BETTER than 2,000 watts, but my claim was only 1800-2000, and I thought I said for less than 400 watts, not 300. It doesn't matter. That was a different machine. Right now it looks like 36 volts at 12 amps, so that is about 432 watts. It may be less, but it won't be more. However, I believe they are running it at 26 volts to get the correct RPM, which is about 312 watts input. The output is about 270 per coil at a little over .7 amps or 2,268 watts, but that is with a 12 magnet rotor and the new machine has a 24 magnet rotor, so I expect to see an increase in output. It will be what it will be.

We are putting together 12 NEW coils, so that will take a bit. All the new core wire material has to be cut to length and coated. My two friends in Sacramento are working on that right now, but it is a process. I have ordered all the wire, but it won't be here until the end of next week which leaves me little time to wind 12 coils and have everything in place for testing the following Monday. I had ALREADY wound 12 of the 24 strand wire coils for the machine with BRAND NEW WIRE, but they do not output anywhere near as much power as the simple 3 strand coils do, so all that wire is wasted and I am starting over. It isn't the first time I have had to wind coils for these machines. My buddy in Sacramento is going to send me a picture in the morning of all the coils stacked on the table and in the box on the floor that I have wound in the last few months for testing with different core materials. It will be a lot, and I will share it.

So we may NOT be ready to test next Monday. But it won't be because we are sitting around slandering other people's work when we should be building.
Wire Order.png

Just going from your buddy's post.

I don't know about 5-6 years. David did have a machine that accelerated under load. The problem was the motors would burn up because the gen accelerated them past the point of back EMF so the current exceeded the rating of the motors wire. I had solution for this but we tried it once with small mistake and he decided he want to do the cogging thing with offset magnetics. That can't work only because the cores of the gen coils are saturated with static fields from the offset magnets. This was easily modeled in Femm. The coils cannot produce as much power as they need to. Most arguments against it failed to acknowledge static saturation.
About a year and half ago I ran head on with the mental condition. Dave had a weird physical response to the fantasy and reality colliding. He would faint and vomit while he was unconscious. He did this about 4 years ago and he did it again when he came to visit me with his wife about 1.5 years ago. Supposedly his wife was on board with funding on a project and when she arrived and I meet her for the first time she had no clue why she was here.
I refused to take any amount of money from them even though I had takin a little bit from Dave directly for parts ect.. When I refused to take his wife small offering he commenced to threating me with lawsuits over partnerships and threatened to give up any secrets he had obtained. This is why Bro Mikey is saying what is saying "NDA's enter into this and court cases"
Thats the low down. I am not posting anymore after this. The reason I did at all was because I would hope people would just let him be if he starts posting anything, Its not worth the argument.

Matt

Maybe Matt was just funnin' round???
bi

[Turion]

What unusual condition? Are you a doctor? Have you spoken to my doctor? Nope. Is that what you are reduced to? Spreading rumors about me? That's pitiful, and low, even for YOU.

And once again you avoid putting your money where your BIG mouth is.
Attached is a picture of the order I just placed for 5 more spools of wire which will make 10 coils. I only have enough wire to make two more, so I had to order almost $700 worth of wire. Again, I am putting MY money where my mouth is. Coward.

The generator produces BETTER than 2,000 watts, but my claim was only 1800-2000, and I thought I said for less than 400 watts, not 300. It doesn't matter. That was a different machine. Right now it looks like 36 volts at 12 amps, so that is about 432 watts. It may be less, but it won't be more. However, I believe they are running it at 26 volts to get the correct RPM, which is about 312 watts input. The output is about 270 per coil at a little over .7 amps or 2,268 watts, but that is with a 12 magnet rotor and the new machine has a 24 magnet rotor, so I expect to see an increase in output. It will be what it will be.

We are putting together 12 NEW coils, so that will take a bit. All the new core wire material has to be cut to length and coated. My two friends in Sacramento are working on that right now, but it is a process. I have ordered all the wire, but it won't be here until the end of next week which leaves me little time to wind 12 coils and have everything in place for testing the following Monday. I had ALREADY wound 12 of the 24 strand wire coils for the machine with BRAND NEW WIRE, but they do not output anywhere near as much power as the simple 3 strand coils do, so all that wire is wasted and I am starting over. It isn't the first time I have had to wind coils for these machines. My buddy in Sacramento is going to send me a picture in the morning of all the coils stacked on the table and in the box on the floor that I have wound in the last few months for testing with different core materials. It will be a lot, and I will share it.

So we may NOT be ready to test next Monday. But it won't be because we are sitting around slandering other people's work when we should be building.
Wire Order.png

[BroMikey]

Yes 6 years of hacking on Dave, bad idea

[bistander]

I have never purposely misquoted you and you know it. Yes, occasionally I have interpreted something you said to mean other than what you intended, but that was not a deliberate attempt to misquote you. I don't need to stoop that law to prove you an idiot. The truth will do that for me. How about that bet on the test results? Or are you EVER going to put your money where your mouth is. I just spent another $680 on wire to wind new coils now that we have the data we needed. But I have enough left to make a little wager with you. But you know you are wrong and will never make that bet. Coward. You can snipe at people from the dark, but you're too cowardly to back up what you say with $$$. Why? because you know you are wrong.

How long has it been since you made that extraordinary claim publicly on citfta's thread. Must be 5, 6 years? We could look it up. But point is, a long time. I did not start calling it a lie. I knew it wasn't true. But then, at that time, I politely asked you to back up the claim with proof.

And you know perfectly well how you and your fan-boys name-call and ridicule me. Occasionally misinterpret or misquote ? I say more like often than occasionally. So much so I think it is deliberate.

Regarding your device, in these 5 to 6 years, everything I've posted is true. Everything you've done has failed. But you think I am an idiot.

Here you go again picking up where you left off calling me a coward. So what? I don't care about your opinion of me. After what we learned about your unusual condition, you should be the last person calling another a coward.

So you now claim that a week from Monday that you will test and prove your extraordinary device producing 2000 watts of real power while using 300 watts of input, sustained (ruling out transient behavior). Is that right?

I hope you do. Good luck.
bi