The bistander thread

[Turion]

You didn't just call me a liar. You also called me a fraud and a con man. Why should I be civil to someone who doesn't have the huevos to face me like a man, and hides in the bushes while making libelous statements about me? Please! LOL

As for the generator, we are still working on it. That has never stopped. We are not required to meet YOUR timeline on anything. When it is finished we plan on having it independently tested, AGAIN. And I will share the results with the many people who have contacted me about this project. Just not YOU. That will happen when it happens, and no amount of whining about it by you will make it happen any faster. Until then I am more than happy to let it lie, but you won't let that happen. So every time you bug me, you know what my response will be now don't you?


So you AREN'T claiming that you're not a pedophile?
Have the huevos to face me like a man, and quit hiding in the bushes like a coward.

[bistander]

I have no intention of removing any of the posts I have made here. But thank you for the post you made on my THREADS (plural). I made a screen shot of them as I have of many of your other post, and have added them to my collection. As you may or may not know, calling me a liar, a fraud and a con man are acts of libel, and while only INFERRING that I am a pedophile my not be, when added to the other statements you have made, it clearly displays a pattern of behavior. You see, I am an actual PERSON, so statements YOU make about ME which affect my reputation are legally actionable, while statements I make about some coward named "bistander" who hides in the dark and attacks the reputations of others while keeping his own identity hidden are NOT. And if you imagine that there will NEVER be a reckoning, I wish you luck.

So you AREN'T claiming that you're not a pedophile?

Been through this many times. Truth is an absolute defense to libel claims. I've never said anything untrue about you. Prove your extraordinary claim and make a liar out of me, then you might have a case.

So you believe your childish behavior is acceptable on this forum but don't like it when someone does the same to you?

As far as my pattern off behavior, what's wrong with demanding proof of your public claim and asking pertinent questions and making on-topic true statements and facts and challenging your rhetoric and nonsense? The record stands on the pages of this forum, even though you've attempted to delete it several times. I wish a neutral qualified arbitrator would review it and deliver an opinion. Maybe then you'd seek the help you obviously need. Why do you need play these childish games? You have routinely resorted to uncivil behavior towards me. The record is clear about that.

So why don't you grow up and get on-topic and finish your generator project and test it publicly like you've promised? Prove it does what you claim.
bi

[Turion]

I have no intention of removing any of the posts I have made here. But thank you for the post you made on my THREADS (plural). I made a screen shot of them as I have of many of your other post, and have added them to my collection. As you may or may not know, calling me a liar, a fraud and a con man are acts of libel, and while only INFERRING that I am a pedophile my not be, when added to the other statements you have made, it clearly displays a pattern of behavior. You see, I am an actual PERSON, so statements YOU make about ME which affect my reputation are legally actionable, while statements I make about some coward named "bistander" who hides in the dark and attacks the reputations of others while keeping his own identity hidden are NOT. And if you imagine that there will NEVER be a reckoning, I wish you luck.

So you AREN'T claiming that you're not a pedophile?

[Turion]

So you AREN'T claiming that you're not a pedophile?

[bistander]

Turion,
the issue is a claim which you made, on this public forum, which was an extraordinary claim, it was unsolicited, and you have reconfirmed that claim many times for over the past 5 years, yet refuse to provide proof of claim. That is what this is about.
It is not about me.
bi

[Turion]

So you AREN'T claiming that you're not a pedophile?

[bistander]

Have you proved my claim is false? No, you have not. No more than I have proved it is true.
Do you claim you are not a pedophile? By your logic, you should have to prove it if you do.

Turion,
such a lame response. We been through it before. The burden of proof is on he who makes the claim. Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof. All I am doing is attempting to hold you to social norms. You made the claim, all I have stated is fact, truth and science. Look it up.
bi

“Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence” was a phrase made popular by Carl Sagan who reworded Laplace's , which says that “the weight of evidence for an extraordinary claim must be proportioned to its strangeness” (Gillispie et al., 1999).Jun 10, 2011

SHIFTING THE BURDEN OF PROOF

The burden of proof is always on the person making an assertion or proposition. Shifting the burden of proof, a special case of argumentum ad ignorantium, is the fallacy of putting the burden of proof on the person who denies or questions the assertion being made. The source of the fallacy is the assumption that something is true unless proven otherwise.

The person making a negative claim cannot logically prove nonexistence. And here's why: to know that a X does not exist would require a perfect knowledge of all things (omniscience).

[Turion]

Have you proved my claim is false? No, you have not. No more than I have proved it is true.
Do you claim you are not a pedophile? By your logic, you should have to prove it if you do.

[bistander]

I haven't thrown in the towel. I just told you that. So YOU just lied again
I haven't admitted that I lied. So YOU lied again
How do YOU know what I will or won't deliver? You don't. So another lie.

Oh bi, the words that fit YOU like a glove I am not allowed to say. My momma would wash my mouth out with soap. LOL. You are entitled to your opinion, just as I am entitled to mine. My partners are not incompetents, and I have not "handed off" anything to them. YOU don't even know them yet you pass judgement on them here in writing for all to see. Pathetic. Do you think they didn't bring people in to look at this BEFORE they got involved? They are working with people FAR better at precision building than I EVER was.

And we are just being realistic. As we move forward building more prototypes, which we are doing, and correcting issues with the current build as well as exploring ways to make it better, it made more sense to have the machine five minutes from the machine shop rather than 90 minutes one way. Sorry you are incapable of understanding that. But you know what? I don't really care WHAT you understand or WHAT you think.

I too, would suggest that readers seek the truth. That they build and rebuild, discover and rebuild, just as I have done. Because once you see it working, the BS spouted by YOU is not going to prevent the work from moving forward. And it IS moving forward. If you want it to move forward faster, build it yourself. Or just shut up. And quit hiding in the dark attempting to discredit the work of others and contributing absolutely NOTHING to forward progress. Aren't YOU ashamed? Wouldn't your mama be ashamed of how cowardly you have been? Who's that hiding in the bushes? bistander, as usual.

I have no idea why you insist on just dragging on with this. For some reason you refuse to let it go until I admit defeat. LOL. The only loser here is YOU. I am quite happy with the progress we are making on all fronts right now. There is so much more going on than YOU will EVER know. And you have NO idea how happy that makes me.

Turion,
A little over 5 years ago, on citfta's thread, you butted in, which you were welcome to do, and made the unsolicited claim, publicly. It is an extraordinary claim. Prove it publicly.

You continue to promote that falsehood in the public arena, so I continue to call you to task. Your false claim is the issue, not my identity.
bi

[Turion]

Turion,
I see where you have started new threads and done videos on different projects without finishing what you have publicly promised to do with the generator, which is to prove your claim. It appears that you have thrown in the towel, sotospeak, admitted you have lied all along and never will deliver proof of your extraordinary claim of 5 years ago.
bi

I haven't thrown in the towel. I just told you that. So YOU just lied again
I haven't admitted that I lied. So YOU lied again
How do YOU know what I will or won't deliver? You don't. So another lie.

Oh bi, the words that fit YOU like a glove I am not allowed to say. My momma would wash my mouth out with soap. LOL. You are entitled to your opinion, just as I am entitled to mine. My partners are not incompetents, and I have not "handed off" anything to them. YOU don't even know them yet you pass judgement on them here in writing for all to see. Pathetic. Do you think they didn't bring people in to look at this BEFORE they got involved? They are working with people FAR better at precision building than I EVER was.

And we are just being realistic. As we move forward building more prototypes, which we are doing, and correcting issues with the current build as well as exploring ways to make it better, it made more sense to have the machine five minutes from the machine shop rather than 90 minutes one way. Sorry you are incapable of understanding that. But you know what? I don't really care WHAT you understand or WHAT you think.

I too, would suggest that readers seek the truth. That they build and rebuild, discover and rebuild, just as I have done. Because once you see it working, the BS spouted by YOU is not going to prevent the work from moving forward. And it IS moving forward. If you want it to move forward faster, build it yourself. Or just shut up. And quit hiding in the dark attempting to discredit the work of others and contributing absolutely NOTHING to forward progress. Aren't YOU ashamed? Wouldn't your mama be ashamed of how cowardly you have been? Who's that hiding in the bushes? bistander, as usual.

I have no idea why you insist on just dragging on with this. For some reason you refuse to let it go until I admit defeat. LOL. The only loser here is YOU. I am quite happy with the progress we are making on all fronts right now. There is so much more going on than YOU will EVER know. And you have NO idea how happy that makes me.

[Turion]

Oh bi, the words that fit YOU like a glove I am not allowed to say. My momma would wash my mouth out with soap. LOL. You are entitled to your opinion, just as I am entitled to mine. My partners are not incompetents, and I have not "handed off" anything to them. Do you think they didn't bring people in to look at this BEFORE they got involved? They are working with people FGAR better at precision building than I EVER was.

And we are just being realistic. As we move forward building more prototypes, which we are doing, and correcting issues with the current build as well as exploring ways to make it better, it made more sense to have the machine five minutes from the machine shop rather than 90 minutes one way. Sorry you are incapable of understanding that. But you know what? I don't really care WHAT you understand or WHAT you think.

I too, would suggest that readers seek the truth. That they build and rebuild, discover and rebuild, just as I have done. Because once you see it working, the BS spouted by YOU is not going to prevent the work from moving forward. And it is moving forward. If you want it to move forward faster, build it yourself. Or just shut up. And quit hiding in the dark attempting to discredit the work of others and contributing absolutely NOTHING to forward progress. Aren't YOU ashamed? Wouldn't your mama be ashamed of how cowardly you have been?

[bistander]

I can't imagine anyone lying about such a thing. I haven't refused to help, and I brought the information here to share with everyone. That's all I can do. I can't make you build it, now can I? Am I responsible for you sitting on your butt and not replicating? I don't think so.

We are working on the generator all the time. My partner moved to a new house, so that has been a big interruption, but things are still moving forward. If you don't like the pace, that's your problem, not mine.

We posted a video of the old machine with just TWO coils in providing enough power to run the NEW machine (with two coils in it powering a load) at HIGHER RPM (by several hundred rpm) than the old machine was running. I know this went over YOUR head, but it proved to us that the two coils output enough power to self run the machine.

You must not have much of a life. I was more than willing to just stay away from here until the machine is ready to show, but you keep whining all the time. You're like a little kid who lashes out because he doesn't get what he wants. Too bad. If you spent half as much time building as you do whining, you might have something to show.

Turion,
I see where you have started new threads and done videos on different projects without finishing what you have publicly promised to do with the generator, which is to prove your claim. It appears that you have thrown in the towel, sotospeak, admitted you have lied all along and never will deliver proof of your extraordinary claim of 5 years ago.

You certainly have the right to lie and post or publish falsehoods and fantasy, but I also have the right to suggest readers seek truth and fact and not be fooled by your BS. That's all I'm doing. The 5 year saga of your free energy generator, your false extraordinary claim, your refusal to deliver or even attempt well instrumented valid proof, a replication that you are incapable of completing, handing it off to incompetents and using them as excuse, ignoring scientific method, claiming you know more about physics than Sir Isaac Newton, filling pages with incoherent gibberish unrelated to generation of electric power and years of insults, ridicule and personal attacks on those who would ask a simple pertinent question, may, hopefully dissuade readers or viewers from wasting time seriously considering what you offer.

Build something that works, test it rigorously, properly, formulate the principles, document it and then present it and and use it to prove what you claim as you claim it, when you claim it.

"It is even quite clear that many people prefer to keep their faith in dubious machines, refusing to test them and measure them carefully, or even to build them, especially those coming from their own ideas as it is the case here, because they know in their heart that it will not work but they want to keep their illusions." These words from F6FLT fit you, Turion, like a glove.
bi

[Turion]

I can't imagine anyone lying about such a thing. I haven't refused to help, and I brought the information here to share with everyone. That's all I can do. I can't make you build it, now can I? Am I responsible for you sitting on your butt and not replicating? I don't think so.

We are working on the generator all the time. My partner moved to a new house, so that has been a big interruption, but things are still moving forward. If you don't like the pace, that's your problem, not mine.

We posted a video of the old machine with just TWO coils in providing enough power to run the NEW machine (with two coils in it powering a load) at HIGHER RPM (by several hundred rpm) than the old machine was running. I know this went over YOUR head, but it proved to us that the two coils output enough power to self run the machine.

You must not have much of a life. I was more than willing to just stay away from here until the machine is ready to show, but you keep whining all the time. You're like a little kid who lashes out because he doesn't get what he wants. Too bad. If you spent half as much time building as you do whining, you might have something to show.

[bistander]

refusing to test them ..... I've TESTED every machine I have built. I just haven't shared the results with YOU. Nor have I done every test YOU requested. And OTHERS have tested them as well
measure them carefully.... I have MEASURED them, and better yet, I have had them measured by others.
or even to build them, especially those coming from their own ideas... This is a lie. I build all the devices I propose.

And I do disagree with your last post. But THAT does not require me to do ANYTHING,

What's stopping you now Turion? You have never proven your claim of more real power output than the power input. You made a public claim. Make proof public.

You say you build devices. Show a device which actually does something useful. Show a device which outputs more real energy than it uses. Sure, you make a lot of junk. Can't even finish the generator you claim has been working for 5 years, but has a flat tire.

What required you to make the false claim 5 years ago? Feel good about it and the attention that came along afterwards?

What man can say to the world he has the means to alleviate human suffering, misery and needless death for millions yet refuse to help?

Who would lie about such a thing? Turion.
bi

[Turion]

I am not a member of OUR.com, but often read a number of threads there. I like what member F6FLT said today regarding another member who is claiming his circuit is FE. It very much applies to Turion.
" on the FE sites, the one who has an interest in maintaining the status quo is the blind believer in free energy, because he is the majority profile.
It is even quite clear that many people prefer to keep their faith in dubious machines, refusing to test them and measure them carefully, or even to build them, especially those coming from their own ideas as it is the case here, because they know in their heart that it will not work but they want to keep their illusions."
bi

refusing to test them ..... I've TESTED every machine I have built. I just haven't shared the results with YOU. Nor have I done every test YOU requested. And OTHERS have tested them as well
measure them carefully.... I have MEASURED them, and better yet, I have had them measured by others.
or even to build them, especially those coming from their own ideas... This is a lie. I build all the devices I propose.

And I do disagree with your last post. But THAT does not require me to do ANYTHING,