Barbosa and Leal Devices - Info and Replication Details

[level]

Turned the inverter on and it started same as it did on AC. It keeps the battery level constant and runs light loads. It's been running for nine hours now so I'll just let it continue.

The limiting factor for loads is the Factory Built Amperage internal capability of of the inverter itself. AN inverter with internal design capability of 10 amps max won't handle but slightly less than that. Even tho its possible to pull large amp loads through the ground the inverter limit stops that from happening.

Hello Clarence. Believe it or not, I do hope for your sake that you have found something that is really working differently this time around.

There is something that appears to not make sense with what you are saying here however, unless I am misunderstanding what you were trying to say.

Previously when you were connected with your current setup to the mains you said it was only drawing 0.07 Amps from the mains. So, if everything is working pretty much the same now when using a battery and inverter instead now, and your inverter is OK up to 10 Amps max, there should be no problem at all with powering all the same kinds of loads connected at the output which you said were pulling around 25 Amps from the ground wire previously. The current draw from your inverter should still only be 0.07 Amps if it is working the same as it was when connected to the mains. Therefore the 10 Amp current limit of your inverter should not be any issue at all. You should be able to use even a small 20 Watt inverter and it should still be able to work fine powering all those same amount of loads as you had connected previously. I would guess I am not the only one who is wondering about this. Why would your inverter need to be rated at higher than 10 Amps if it is working the same as when you were powering from the mains? The current draw from the inverter should only be 0.07 Amps if it is working the same, whether you have light loads or heavy loads connected, as I believe that is how you said it was performing when powered from the mains.

[digits10]

Progress

In between rain & humid sunshine, I've now got 28 8' copper clad ground rods down to ground level. A hammer drill is the only way to go! I still have to drive them down below the surface & connect the ground wire to them. I've still got a way to go, but I'm making some progress

Wanttomake - congrats on your 40th! We just celebrated our 13th. Guess I'm on the younger end of this spectrum, ha ha.

Clarence, I hope your 60 ground rods are copper clad & not pure copper, otherwise I might be in for a disappointment.

More later & thanks for all your work, dedication, advice, info

[BroMikey]

BroMikey,

Thanks BRO for your support.
Your good intentions are always open and evident.
I also plan on following Wantomake's advice about not answering
those posts that are not for the betterment of all.

Thanks again BRO,

Clarence

I agree, it is a waste of time to engage people who side track from
the main attraction. You guys are so much better to listen to. Keep
at it.

Maybe someday we will all have the right schematic and the rest
of us can then be sure what the parts list is and start ordering.

[level]

Hello Clarence. I took a close look at your latest setup, and when connected to the mains it will still just be a ground loop from the mains hot phase wire through your ground rods and through the ground back to the grounded neutral wire on the utility box. Nothing has changed in that regard with this latest setup of yours. That would seem to explain why your setup can only power light loads when powered from your battery and inverter, as you described in your comment above. In other words, it is still the same old mains ground loop situation fooling your power meters.

You can easily confirm if this is the case or not by doing two very simple tests:

When powering from the mains:
When powering some large loads, set your clamp-on meter to measure AC current and measure the current on the 'hot' phase wire (should be the black wire) on your extension cord which is powering the whole setup. If this input hot phase current is way higher than 0.07A, such as in a high Amps range in proportion to the loads you have connected, then you know for certain that it is a mains ground loop fooling your power meter, since the ground loop return current bypasses the power meter.

When powering from the battery and inverter:
Simply measure the DC battery current in one of the battery wires going to the input of the inverter, and if this current is quite high in proportion to the loads you are powering, then you know all or much of the power is coming from the battery.

[wantomake]

You are way ahead of me

In between rain & humid sunshine, I've now got 28 8' copper clad ground rods down to ground level. A hammer drill is the only way to go! I still have to drive them down below the surface & connect the ground wire to them. I've still got a way to go, but I'm making some progress

Wanttomake - congrats on your 40th! We just celebrated our 13th. Guess I'm on the younger end of this spectrum, ha ha.

Clarence, I hope your 60 ground rods are copper clad & not pure copper, otherwise I might be in for a disappointment.

More later & thanks for all your work, dedication, advice, info

digits10,
Thanks and right back at you there.

Yes the rods are just copper coated. At Lowes here in US, the cost is $11.95+- each. But they only stock 2-3 at a time. Make sure you use good screw clamps(the ones sold here are 5/8") to secure the #6 wire.
I tried different methods to connect wire to rod. Weather, rust and poor maintenance lead to bad connections for mine. I plan to purchase the hammer drill you mentioned to drive the rods. Then post hole dig about 4-6 inches down around each rod to make easy access for connecting ground wire. Lastly I'll cap each hole with 4" pvc pipe and end cap to keep grass,fire ants and weather from each rod. Will cut slots on both sides of non capped end of 4" pipe for ground (#6) wire. But will try to camouflage each one somehow because of nosy neighbors . There's a large area beside my shop that will mark with spray paint as I'm placing rods 3 feet apart and bury ground wire just below grass level.

Sorry the wifey and I are just sitting with tablets in hotel after good free breakfast good coffee and too much typing. It's what old couples do in the mornings. Haha....coffee?

Hope your answer didn't get lost in my musings,
wantomake

[Cadman]

Clarence,

So glad you have switched to the inverter setup. When you get time would you mind reposting the battery / inverter / charger connections for everyone?

@Level
Clarence said earlier that he was just using the mains for convenience. So who cares if the mains setup is a ground loop? He reported the facts about the amp draw of the fused setup.

Personally, I don't care one bit if OU can be measured. The proof is in the pudding. If Clarence's setup can run the load longer than the battery with inverter alone, then that is all the proof needed. If you can't see the good of that then I don't know what to tell you. I see similarities with Turion's device here; recycling charges. Plus there is the possibility that additional charge may be extracted from the ground. This an open system.

You've made your point. So give it a rest, OK?

Respectfully

[level]

Clarence,

So glad you have switched to the inverter setup. When you get time would you mind reposting the battery / inverter / charger connections for everyone?

@Level
Clarence said earlier that he was just using the mains for convenience. So who cares if the mains setup is a ground loop? He reported the facts about the amp draw of the fused setup.

Personally, I don't care one bit if OU can be measured. The proof is in the pudding. If Clarence's setup can run the load longer than the battery with inverter alone, then that is all the proof needed. If you can't see the good of that then I don't know what to tell you. I see similarities with Turion's device here; recycling charges. Plus there is the possibility that additional charge may be extracted from the ground. This an open system.

You've made your point. So give it a rest, OK?

Respectfully

Hello Cadman. This is not about 'whether OU can be measured', and never has been, as of course over unity is capable of being measured. If you are getting more power out than the total input power to a system, then that would be over unity. There is nothing complicated or mysterious about that at all.

What is of interest here is what is really going on in a B&L setup of this type. If you had bothered to actually read what I wrote above and considered what is being said, you would realize there is a very apparent problem with Clarence's latest setup. It performs great when connected to the mains, but Clarence stated that it causes the current limiting on his inverter to kick in when trying to power larger loads. That is a big warning sign. Let's not mislead people here. Clarence was suggesting that the high current on his ground wire (18A to 25A) when connected to the mains was not coming from the mains, and that is why he felt he had something special this time. If you have any doubts about this, go back and read Clarence's previous comments on this.

Anyone who cares to look will see that Clarence's latest setup has the hot phase wire going to one side of his load, and this phase current then returns through his ground rod array through the ground back to the grounded neutral on the utility box. In other words it is just another mains ground loop setup. That would appear to be why it performs great when connected to the mains, but apparently can only power light loads when connected to a battery and inverter.

I have suggested some very simple tests that Clarence can do to easily confirm where the power is really coming from in Clarence's setup, whether he is connected to the mains or to a battery and inverter. A person who is genuinely interested in trying to understand what is really going on would of course not hesitate to do these kind of basic tests because their goal is to get a better understanding.
The problem here Cadman is this latest setup by Clarence appears to be no different than any of Clarence's earlier setups other than this setup not having the high current 'captor loop', so chances are it is going to perform about the same as his earlier setups. I encourage Clarence to do some proper testing and confirm this for himself and report his results back here, as I would hate to see a bunch of people shelling out large sums of money on batteries and inverters and toroids and a whole pile of ground rods if this latest setup is really no different than Clarence's previous setups.

[Cadman]

Level,

If I had bothered to read and consider what you wrote? How condescending. What you wrote about measuring between the battery and inverter is both pointless and short sighted.
What would be measured in that instance would be the current between the battery positive and the inverter and nothing else. That current should be many times the current drawn by the load for a 12V battery supplying a 120V inverter. Also current limiting kicking in is by design in the inverter indicating an excessive load on the inverter and nothing else.
To use your own words, let's not mislead people here.

Clarence is being straightforward. He was pulling a 25A load on a 20A fuse, though he didn't say for how long. If it was a sustained load for a lengthy period then where was the extra amperage coming from?

An extra 20% is nothing to scoff at . So how about we wait and see how the battery / inverter / charger performs?

.

[level]

Hello Cadman. I am sorry but you don't know what you are talking about. The tests I suggested are perfectly valid and were suggested for a very good reason. For a person who understands what is going on, the tests can quickly and simply determine where the actual power is coming from. The measured battery current times the measured battery voltage gives the total input power when using a battery. When powering from the mains, if all the current is coming from the hot phase, then it will be very close to the ground wire current. Please stop confusing matters. Thank you.

[FRANKLIN]

Somebody could tell me this please

Hello
I understood the circuit of the device that is on the picture that clarence posted before
What it is not clear for me, why on the picture of the final setup (attached the picture) the toroids look differenf in comparison with the picture of the toroids from birdgeport magnetics

Just tell me if you did a modification to the original toroids (I kow you added the blue wire, I saw in the picture very clear, but I do not know if there is another modification to the toroids).

thanks

[BroMikey]

Level,

If I had bothered to read and consider what you wrote? How condescending.

To use your own words, let's not mislead people here.

Clarence is being straightforward.
.

I have watched Level for 2 years post daily when his side is losing the
battle of confidence. His job is to thwart any good feelings of higher
level aspiration. You can't reason with that.

However your questions that should be asked are never addressed.

Good to have someone around who can point out this side winding
strategy so a newcomer does not get sucked in. We may not post
much for days and what is posted is all based on real hands on, totally
foreign to the non researcher.

Where is that extra 20% coming from? Good question Cadman

It is a process of deduction that gives us the answer. People who
consider themselves adept should at least answer those few basics.


Just like when Clarence showed the inverter results to be conclusive,
these same skeptics never want to go over the material or know how.

For weeks and months and years the inverter test was to be the final
test of surety and now that the results are in we do not hear anything
good. All we hear round about is that Clarence must be mistaken.

Or better yet Clarence is in effect a liar. Now that is what we are hearing
from the other side, in so many words. Of course these folks would never
come right out and say such a thing.

Many ground rods are a bunch of work all by themselves, then there
is all of the technical end probably far beyond the average cynic.

Yeah ole Clarence is just trying to make a name for himself, he thinks
he is really smart now doesn't he?Cynical, eccentric and skeptical
as the status quo.

Zero's without any ones.-------

[level]

[clarence]

They are the same ones

Hello
I understood the circuit of the device that is on the picture that clarence posted before
What it is not clear for me, why on the picture of the final setup (attached the picture) the toroids look differenf in comparison with the picture of the toroids from birdgeport magnetics

Just tell me if you did a modification to the original toroids (I kow you added the blue wire, I saw in the picture very clear, but I do not know if there is another modification to the toroids).

thanks

FRANKLIN,

I don't know why you think you see any difference?
They are the very same ones in the image photo!
Years back I bought a total of five of them.
Two of them I sent to another member several years back so he could
do some building.
As you said yourself, the Blue wire is just clearly an overlay.

I don't mind the question, now you have the answer.

Respectfully,

Clarence

[Cadman]

BroMikey,

I see. I guess, even if it was spelled out for some, they would remain closed minded and obstinate. Level refuses to see that the charger is on the high side of the inverter and it's output is fed back to the battery where it re-enters the cycle. Being on the high side it is a load and may possibly take in extra charge from outside the system. Measuring the amperage at the battery connection to the inverter includes the output from the charger and that point in the circuit is the entry point for the majority of the charge supplied to the load. Measuring at that location is not what is being drawn from the battery, it is what is drawn from the battery + charger.

But, I am told that I don't know what I'm talking about and only confusing matters so I'll shut up and wait for reality to assert itself.

Regards

[digits10]

Yeah

Cadman,
Can't wait to get off work today, so that I can work on wiring up my ground rods. Hopefully, I can help reality exert itself