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Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera

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  • #91
    Wirewound Resistors

    Originally posted by woopy View Post
    Hi Wonju

    Do not worry, i go on the Figuera experiment.

    My last video came from the fact that when i tried primaries with less Ohmage than the Micro Wave fan motor coil which has about 200 ohm DC resistance, i got no more the nice climbing and descending steps on the voltage trace, but i got a almost flat trace which ends with a sharp square with flyback spike. Almost as per a standard square wave .
    Than i simply suppressed all the resistors and tried with the arduino (with your code ), and i got a kind of square wave , but centered on the middle of the cycle.And i got some interesting results. But i was very limited by the voltage of the Arduino , and when i tried to apply an amplifier with a transistor, i get a sharp square with strong Flyback spike. Seems not so good.

    Today i wound the second C core (1000 turns of 0.3 mm with 14.5 Ohm DC resistance) so i have the real Figuera setup, with gap between the "y" and the 2 C core.

    But with the Arduino and transistors ,i am not able to reach the nice trace, as per the Rotating commutator.

    OK will go on with my rotating commutator to get the feeling. I will wait to Conrad or Keyo for electronic commutation.

    Good luck at all

    Laurent
    There is something important that you need to know. The resistors might be increasing too much the Thevenin DC resistance as seen from the primary coils. If this resistance is too high, the voltages drop at the primary coils do not necessarily follow the power supply voltage.
    I would like you to do the following with the power supply you built with the Arduino circuit; replace the primary coils with dummy resistors and record the voltage waveforms. If the recorded voltage is a nice step sinusoidal voltage, then the pure resistor used as a voltage divider is not a good option. You will need to use wirewound resistors. And, that seems to be the case based on the patent’s sketch.

    Wonju
    Last edited by wonju; 11-10-2012, 04:49 AM.

    Comment


    • #92
      Non Inductive Coils

      Wonja

      According to my 1912 electrical book, wire resistances should consist of a pair of wires joined at one end, wrapped over a former, which will cancel any inductive effect. Also known as a non-inductive coils, as this winding method will cancel each others magnetic field. That I suspect is why the patent shows the pairs of wires joined at one end.

      Comment


      • #93
        Good point Jonh_g, Thanks for your help.

        Let's wait for the results from Woopy. If the pure resistor element does not work, we may have to replicate the resistors as shown in the patent. Perhaps they should be small inductors.

        Wonju

        Comment


        • #94
          Author of the web report

          Hi everyone,

          Yesterday I talked to the author of the original report about Clemente Figuera. The original report is located in: El enigma de Clemente Figuera y la máquina de la energĂ­a infinita - TecnologĂ­a Obsoleta and dated the 10th of january of 2011 after been published in an spanish magazine . The rest of links are literal copies of his investigation report, even the english traslation ( A Letter From Nicola Tesla – Orbo.es ). He confirmed me that there was a complete gap about life and research of Mr. Figuere since his death until he published his report. No other kind of information was available about Figuera´s life. He published a book in 2003 (Heretics of Science) in Spain and although in this book he didn´t include any reference to Clemente Figuera he started to investigate since the writting of that book. He is fascinated by Mr. Figuera since Mr. Figuera was a respected and well-known engineer and he didn´t need to claim any false statement. He had too much to loose in case of joining to the crazy group of "perpetual motion designers". For this reason the author thinks that his claims are true, and something great is hidden in his patents.

          About the patents: In 2003 he asked the Spanish Patent Office for Mr. Figuera´s patents. They said to him that there was 5 patents but just they gave him 2 of them since the rest were very damaged by an old flooding in the archive. The 2 patent that are included in his report are trascribed literally. The one from 1902 was manuscirpt and didn´t include any drawing. The patent from 1908 is also trascribed literally and it only include the only drawing which you are using currently. I have checked the english traslation of both patents and they seem to be complete traslation (surely by a computer program) from the patents included in the original report except for some sentences that are unreadable in english as consequence of some errors in the traslation stage. It seem that these sentences don´t spoil the general concept of the documents. I will try to revise carefully sentence by sentence both patents and I will tell you if I find any important mismatch.

          Comment


          • #95
            Hi Hanon
            thank's for your info

            Hi Wonju

            just an idea to test, using incandescent light bulb as resistors.
            A 100 watt 220 volt light bulb is about 40 Ohm resistive.

            just to think

            good luck at all

            Laurent

            Comment


            • #96
              Hanon,
              Thank you very much for the info!

              Woopy,

              It does not seem to be a good idea.

              I see the need for more clarifications.

              1) The reactance or inductance of the primary coils should not be estimated by the known formula X=2*pi*f*L. This formula applies to a sine tone signal, that is, having one frequency component only.

              2) How to estimate the resistors?
              I recommend the following practical approach; apply the full rectified voltage directly to one primary coil only and measure the current Ip flowing in the circuit. The minimum value of the net resistor Rn should allow a current equal to Ip/10. Then, the value of each resistor Ri forming Rn should be about Rn/6. This approach guarantees that the minimum primary current is equal to or smaller than the maximum current Ip by a factor of 10. Based on the values of Ip, you should be able to estimate the minimum wattage of the resistors.

              3) I noticed that you are using a secondary wire of small gauge. I recommend using secondary wires no smaller than #20AWG. The size of the primary wires might be thinner. This is possible because the currents for this transformer do not comply with the coils turn ratio. If you use a heavier wire gauge for the secondary, you should be able to extract more power.

              4) Please, note that the formula for the primary and secondary voltages and the turn ratio should still be valid!

              Wonju
              Last edited by wonju; 11-12-2012, 03:18 AM.

              Comment


              • #97
                I wanted to show you my version of Figuera's apparatus. It is still a work in progress.

                Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE

                Comment


                • #98


                  Mine is already working too, I'll post a video soon.
                  “ THE PERSON WHO SAYS IT CANNOT BE DONE SHOULD NOT INTERRUPT THE PERSON DOING IT ! ”

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Once the secondary 'Vsy' voltage is induced, the main limiting factor for the power output should be the size of the secondary wire. That is why I am using a #14AWG wire.

                    I am forecasting that the model of this transformer differs from the standard ones in that the primary parameters such as resistance and reactance do not affect the output power.

                    Wonju
                    Last edited by wonju; 11-12-2012, 03:43 AM.

                    Comment


                    • Detail found in the original patent

                      Hi all,
                      I have some comment that I want to discuss:

                      - I have noted that some replications are trying to look for a relation between Figuera´s machine and a transformer. The result of this restriction in design is that the generating coils and the induced coil are parallels. In the patent it is said that the induced coil should be “properly placed” to achieve the required effect. Maybe you could experiment with other coils orientations.

                      - The patent never mentions to use a sweet iron core in the induced coil. This is another different in the replications which try to mimic a transformer. Maybe the iron core can modify the magnetic field and spoil the effect. I don´t know, it is just a doubt

                      - Figuera´s design had always one way direction in the current which circulates by primary coils. Never stops, never reverses and never goes to zero. Figuera´s commented with detail that the brush in the wheel must touch more than one contact at the same time (this a sentence that is missing in the english translation of the patent..Watch out!! I hope to have the patent translation revised by tomorrow). Electronic components may differs because a transistor can pulsate the current, but it may reach a zero value …

                      - - I have noted in the patent drawing that the wire connection to N and S coils are not the same.. I don´t know why. Maybe it is a stupid thing. But we may also have any distraction derived from the drawn parts that are blurred in the image and that we are taking as given in the reconstruction of the sketch.

                      Good luck !!

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by hanon1492 View Post
                        Hi all,
                        I have some comment that I want to discuss:

                        - I have noted that some replications are trying to look for a relation between Figuera´s machine and a transformer. The result of this restriction in design is that the generating coils and the induced coil are parallels. In the patent it is said that the induced coil should be “properly placed” to achieve the required effect. Maybe you could experiment with other coils orientations.

                        - Figuera´s design had always one way direction in the current which circulates by primary coils. Never stops, never reverses and never goes to zero. Figuera´s commented with detail that the brush in the wheel must touch more than one contact at the same time (this a sentence that is missing in the english translation of the patent..Watch out!! I hope to have the patent translation revised by tomorrow). Electronic components may differs because a transistor can pulsate the current, but it may reach a zero value …

                        Good luck !!
                        I noticed this strange current profile in the Fiquera "commutator + 7 resistors" and therefore I haver selected the DRV8834 stepper motor driver IC for my replication because it allows to implement even this "strange current profile". But I tend to assume (just a wild guess) that Fiquera did not have a "chopped full transistor bridge" and therefore was stuck with the "commutator + 7 resistors".

                        It is also important to notice that the resistors consume quite a lot of power. The DRV8834 is more efficient when creating a current profile.

                        I also have no idea whether the coils depicted in the Fiquera drawing have a core? In fact, the many coils depicted point to core-less coils, because when using a core, this arrangement makes no sense. But without a core many smaller individual coils will have a better magnetic interaction than one big coil.

                        Greetings, Conrad

                        P.S.: I am still waiting for ordered components and at the moment I do not have much time for experiments.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by conradelektro View Post
                          I also have no idea whether the coils depicted in the Fiquera drawing have a core? In fact, the many coils depicted point to core-less coils, .
                          According to the original patent, the inductor coils have sweet iron core.

                          But there is no mention to any core in the induced coil.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by hanon1492 View Post
                            Hi all,
                            I have some comment that I want to discuss:

                            - I have noted that some replications are trying to look for a relation between Figuera´s machine and a transformer. The result of this restriction in design is that the generating coils and the induced coil are parallels. In the patent it is said that the induced coil should be “properly placed” to achieve the required effect. Maybe you could experiment with other coils orientations.
                            I do not understand your point. This can cause distraction and it can also lead to delays for replicating the generator. Can you provide the advantages of your recommendations based on an analysis similar to the paper posted in this thread?

                            The patent never mentions to use a sweet iron core in the induced coil. This is another different in the replications which try to mimic a transformer. Maybe the iron core can modify the magnetic field and spoil the effect. I don’t know, it is just a doubt
                            The transcript of the patent does not mention at all the material of the induced electromagnet core. But, it does mention the induction coil cores as sweet iron cores:

                            "DESCRIPCIÓN DEL GENERADOR DE EXCITACIÓN VARIABLE “FIGUERA”
                            La máquina está formada por un circuito inductor fijo, constituido por varios electroimanes con núcleos de hierro dulce que ejercen inducción en el circuito inducido, también fijo e inmóvil, compuesto de varios carretes o espiras, convenientemente colocadas. Como ninguno de los dos circuitos han de girar, no hay necesidad de hacerlos redondos, ni de dejar espacio alguno entre uno y otro."

                            One thing is for sure, a magnetic core type of material is required for the induced coil core!

                            Figuera´s design had always one way direction in the current which circulates by primary coils. Never stops, never reverses and never goes to zero. Figuera´s commented with detail that the brush in the wheel must touch more than one contact at the same time (this a sentence that is missing in the english translation of the patent..Watch out!! I hope to have the patent translation revised by tomorrow). Electronic components may differs because a transistor can pulsate the current, but it may reach a zero value …
                            The non-reversing of the primary currents and the need for make-before-break switch type is also supported in the paper posted in this thread.

                            Are you trying to say that transistors cannot replicate the mechanical switching?

                            I have noted in the patent drawing that the wire connection to N and S coils are not the same. I don’t know why. Maybe it is a stupid thing. But we may also have any distraction derived from the drawn parts that are blurred in the image and that we are taking as given in the reconstruction of the sketch.
                            Why don't you show your version of the circuit? It is irresponsible to make bold statements without providing supports for it!

                            I am perfectly ok with constructed criticisms and comments. What I cannot stand are comments implying that whatever we are doing here might be wrong but there are no directions for making it better. THIS IS JUST CREATING CONFUSION AND IT IS NOT FAIR FOR THE PEOPLE OF THIS FORUM WHO ARE WORKING HARD TO REPLICATE THIS WONDERFUL APPARATUS!

                            Comment


                            • OK, so to better understand what we are dealing with here I have drawn a quick graph.



                              Now which one is the best?
                              “ THE PERSON WHO SAYS IT CANNOT BE DONE SHOULD NOT INTERRUPT THE PERSON DOING IT ! ”

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by hanon1492 View Post
                                Hi all,
                                I have some comment that I want to discuss:

                                - I have noted that some replications are trying to look for a relation between Figuera´s machine and a transformer. The result of this restriction in design is that the generating coils and the induced coil are parallels. In the patent it is said that the induced coil should be “properly placed” to achieve the required effect. Maybe you could experiment with other coils orientations.

                                - The patent never mentions to use a sweet iron core in the induced coil. This is another different in the replications which try to mimic a transformer. Maybe the iron core can modify the magnetic field and spoil the effect. I don´t know, it is just a doubt

                                - Figuera´s design had always one way direction in the current which circulates by primary coils. Never stops, never reverses and never goes to zero. Figuera´s commented with detail that the brush in the wheel must touch more than one contact at the same time (this a sentence that is missing in the english translation of the patent..Watch out!! I hope to have the patent translation revised by tomorrow). Electronic components may differs because a transistor can pulsate the current, but it may reach a zero value …

                                - - I have noted in the patent drawing that the wire connection to N and S coils are not the same.. I don´t know why. Maybe it is a stupid thing. But we may also have any distraction derived from the drawn parts that are blurred in the image and that we are taking as given in the reconstruction of the sketch.

                                Good luck !!
                                Originally posted by kEhYo77 View Post
                                OK, so to better understand what we are dealing with here I have drawn a quick graph.



                                Now which one is the best?
                                The original waveform shown in the first graph is about right when you have a pure resistive load. The inductance of the primary coils should distort the shape a bit.

                                I have no comments for the second graph.

                                The third graph is not correct. You are showing two sinusoidal voltages in 90 degrees out of phase. If you applied these two signals to full wave rectifier, then, you get the correct voltage that should be applied to the primary coils. The voltage applied to the primary coils should be half-cycle sine waves. Refer to figure 21 of the document.

                                Wonju.

                                Comment

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