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Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera

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  • #61
    @Wonju:

    The SureStep (microstepping drive) http://www.automationdirect.com/stat...estepdrive.pdf is a real beauty. This is what they used when I came up with the LMD18245 in the 1990ies. Now is the time of the ICs for a fraction of the cost.

    For high Wattage one still has to use these cumbersome boxes.

    But yes, the SureStep will do, but is it really worth while to spend the money? I advise against becoming too serious when doing OU experiments.

    I will go for the "DRV8834 plus SMD adapter board" in connection with a LaunchPad carrying a MSP430G2452 microcontroller. That stays will below 50 Euro.

    To solder that together will cause some anxious fiddling, but what the hell, it is only a hobby.

    Greetings, Conrad
    Last edited by conradelektro; 11-06-2012, 10:44 PM.

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    • #62
      You can find in eBay Stepper motor drivers with similar capabilities for about $50. That is a good deal!

      Ok. Now I want to see results! I already have the driver and I just finished dismantling the iron core of a transformer. My plan is to modify the E and I segments of the iron core to have about 3 sets of 4 electromagnets per set. That is, I will have 4 electromagnets per row - instead of the 7 shown in the patent.

      Good luck to all! And, please, post any result from the testing. Thanks!

      Wonju

      Comment


      • #63
        Phase A and Phase B controlling

        I looked a bit deeper into the stepper motor drivers.

        In order to drive the two primary coils of the Fiquera Transformer one needs a very flexible stepper motor driver because the phases have to be driven differently to a stepper motor.

        See the attached drawing which explains the difference between driving a Fiquera Transformer and a stepper motor.

        What it comes down to: one has to be able to drive the two Phases at 180 (stepper motor needs 90).

        So far the only one which seems to be suitable is the DRV8834.

        DRV8834PWP - DRIVER, MOTOR, DUAL H BRIDGE, 24HTSSOP
        DRV8834PWP - TEXAS INSTRUMENTS - DRIVER, MOTOR, DUAL H BRIDGE, | Farnell United Kingdom

        ADAPTOR, SMD, SSOP-24, 0.65MM
        RE931-04 - ROTH ELEKTRONIK - ADAPTOR, SMD, SSOP-24, 0.65MM | Farnell United Kingdom

        There might be many more stepper motor drivers which can be used, but look carefully. The two phases have to be driven at 180 for the Fiquera Transformer (and at 90 for a stepper motor). Many stepper motor drivers are fixedly set to a phase difference of 90.

        Driving capability of the DRV 8834: from +10.8 Volt to -10.8 Volt , at 1.5 Ampere. This may be not high enough.

        But one could use several pairs of primary coils and for each pair a DRV 8834 (all DRV 8834 ICs driven in parallel with the same pins of the microprocessor).

        Greetings, Conrad
        Attached Files

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by conradelektro View Post
          There might be many more stepper motor drivers which can be used, but look carefully. The two phases have to be driven at 180 for the Fiquera Transformer (and at 90 for a stepper motor). Many stepper motor drivers are fixedly set to a phase difference of 90.

          Greetings, Conrad
          Conrad,

          I am under the impression that you have not read the Figuera's document completely. The document clearly states (and it is also shown on figure 21) that the two voltages applied to the primaries must be 90 degrees out of phase.

          Regards,
          Wonju

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by wonju View Post
            Conrad,

            I am under the impression that you have not read the Figuera's document completely. The document clearly states (and it is also shown on figure 21) that the two voltages applied to the primaries must be 90 degrees out of phase.

            Regards,
            Wonju
            Could you post images of your setup made from iron transformer cores ? Did you cut E elements into C ones or did you used something else ?

            Comment


            • #66
              Hi, I am going to build this device.

              I have found this dual H-Bridge driver:

              L298N
              - OPERATING SUPPLY VOLTAGE UP TO 46 V
              - TOTAL DC CURRENT UP TO 4 A (2A per channel but you can parallel them for higher current output)
              - LOWSATURATION VOLTAGE
              - OVERTEMPERATURE PROTECTION
              - LOGICAL 0 INPUT VOLTAGE UP TO 1.5 V (HIGHNOISE IMMUNITY)

              It will be easy to interface it with Arduino using a protoboard. There are Arduino shields available based in that IC as well, just Google it.

              90 degrees phase (or any other angle) can be realized via software, just look for DSS (digital signal synthesis) Arduino code examples.
              When I get mine working I will publish the code so stay tuned

              Arduino DDS Sinewave Generator example

              BTW. The core I'm using can be found in some PC power supply.
              Attached Files
              Last edited by kEhYo77; 11-07-2012, 09:29 PM.
              THE PERSON WHO SAYS IT CANNOT BE DONE SHOULD NOT INTERRUPT THE PERSON DOING IT !

              Comment


              • #67
                90 or not

                Originally posted by wonju View Post
                Conrad,

                I am under the impression that you have not read the Figuera's document completely. The document clearly states (and it is also shown on figure 21) that the two voltages applied to the primaries must be 90 degrees out of phase.

                Regards,
                Wonju
                Well, one will of course try 90, but when building such a thing I would not want to be limited to 90. I want to do many tests with many different coils and setups. One does not really know all the details about this invention.

                My suspicion is that one wants 180 in case one goes from - maxI to + maxI (instead from + minI to + maxI). I mean the full Sinus for the current variation.

                But of course, I could be wrong and 90 is perfect. But when testing I want to be as versatile as possible. It usually costs the same, just more time for planning is needed, which pays of later.

                One could also try to improve the "commutator + resistors", but given the fact that the DRV8834 costs less than 5 Euro, this option seems futile. I guess I have solved the soldering problem with the adapter.

                I do not want to impose the DRV8834, it just is the best I found (and I have some experience with stepper motor drivers, kind of learned the hard way). These ICs reached usability only in the last 10 years, the best are very new (less than 5 years old designs). They are used for moving camera lenses, for scanners moving the beam with the sensors and for moving printer heads, also in robotic toys. The design of the better and newer ones is geared towards relatively low power applications.

                But if the Fiquera thing works it will work with low power as well. 30 Watt (which can be done with the DRV8834) seems to be plenty for a test bed, you do not want to be fried or electrocuted playing with the thing. Once you have encouraging results, it will be worth wile to spend a few hundred Euro on a big non integrated step motor driver (but chances are that it will never come to this, and if it does, we will not hear any secrets from you).

                Just remember, when varying currents in a nice way, there are no short cuts (the commutator and the resister bank is the short cut).

                Greetings, Conrad

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by boguslaw View Post
                  Could you post images of your setup made from iron transformer cores ? Did you cut E elements into C ones or did you used something else ?
                  boguslaw,

                  I am doing exactly the same thing as KEhYo77. I am converting the 'Es' into 'Cs' and using the 'Is' for the secondary coils. I am also planning to do a simpler version. It is my belief that this apparatus could work with one set of air gaps only. That is, I think the system could work fine with either, the top gaps or the bottom ones. This system can be easily built by using the center column of the 'Es' for the secondary coil and the end columns for the two primaries. The 'Is' can be placed on top of the center column of the 'Es' to create the air gaps.

                  I cannot upload the sketch because I reached the limit.

                  Wonju
                  Last edited by wonju; 11-07-2012, 09:40 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by wonju View Post
                    ....
                    I cannot upload the sketch because I reached the limit.

                    Wonju
                    Hi wonju,

                    You may wish to consider using ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting and embed the link into your posts, then the upload limit is solved for ever.

                    Gyula

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Hi KehYo

                      well done man go on

                      Hi conrad

                      Thank's for your infos on the drivers, very helfull and i will study and probably ask questions in due time.

                      Hi Wonju

                      Your last post is intriging , i post here a pix of how i see your proposal, am i right on the track?
                      i mean you wind the center pod as the secondary and the 2 outer pods as the 2 primaries (left config )
                      but in this case there would be a direct magnetic connection between the primaries and the secondary?

                      Than i am something confused now, on the question of the 90 degrees between the to primary's voltage. Because so far i get 180 degrees shift between primary voltage 1 and primary voltage 2 , and i have some problem to see how it could be an 90 degrees with the Figuera back and forth way on the resistors.
                      Please explanation is necessary on this point Thank's

                      I am trying a lot of different coils resistance and inductance, space between gap, stack of resistors, gap and direct contact difference, so as usual the practice is the truth (good or not )
                      So i am pleased that very soon a bunch of replications will come to share the experience.

                      good luck at all

                      Laurent
                      Attached Files

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        @kEhYo77,

                        It sounds interesting. Please, let us know how it goes. I would like to see a graph of the output voltages.


                        @gyula,

                        Thanks for the info. I will try it.


                        Wonju
                        Last edited by wonju; 11-07-2012, 11:59 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by woopy View Post
                          Hi Wonju

                          Your last post is intriging , i post here a pix of how i see your proposal, am i right on the track?
                          i mean you wind the center pod as the secondary and the 2 outer pods as the 2 primaries (left config )
                          but in this case there would be a direct magnetic connection between the primaries and the secondary?
                          What I mentioned is in the wish list. Do not lose focus of our main task, which is to replicate Mr. Figuera's apparatus. Once we have the performance data of the original apparatus, then, we can compare it against any other variant. It could be the case that Mr. Figuera already tested different variants and disclosed the most efficient one in his patent. I apologize for the confusion.

                          Than i am something confused now, on the question of the 90 degrees between the to primary's voltage. Because so far i get 180 degrees shift between primary voltage 1 and primary voltage 2 , and i have some problem to see how it could be an 90 degrees with the Figuera back and forth way on the resistors.
                          Please explanation is necessary on this point Thank's
                          Recall that two signals are 180 degrees out of phase when one is the reflected image of the other. This is not your case. Your experiment shows the two primary signals shifted at about 90 degrees.

                          I am trying a lot of different coils resistance and inductance, space between gap, stack of resistors, gap and direct contact difference, so as usual the practice is the truth (good or not )
                          So i am pleased that very soon a bunch of replications will come to share the experience.
                          As I said above, our main task should be the replication of the original apparatus, especially the one related to the electromagnets. Mr. Figuera stated that the electromagnets can be placed very close together. you have being doing an excellent job! Just keep going in the same direction.

                          Thanks again! Woopy

                          Wonju

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by wonju View Post
                            The attached document explains how Mr. Figuera's "infinite energy machine" works.
                            It is amazing how we keep recycling old concepts over and over again. And then, we even claim that we are the inventors.
                            Thank you for sharing, keep up the good work!

                            Cheers

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Testing The Electromagnets

                              Originally posted by woopy View Post
                              Hi KehYo

                              well done man go on

                              Hi conrad

                              Thank's for your infos on the drivers, very helfull and i will study and probably ask questions in due time.

                              Hi Wonju

                              Your last post is intriging , i post here a pix of how i see your proposal, am i right on the track?
                              i mean you wind the center pod as the secondary and the 2 outer pods as the 2 primaries (left config )
                              but in this case there would be a direct magnetic connection between the primaries and the secondary?

                              Than i am something confused now, on the question of the 90 degrees between the to primary's voltage. Because so far i get 180 degrees shift between primary voltage 1 and primary voltage 2 , and i have some problem to see how it could be an 90 degrees with the Figuera back and forth way on the resistors.
                              Please explanation is necessary on this point Thank's

                              I am trying a lot of different coils resistance and inductance, space between gap, stack of resistors, gap and direct contact difference, so as usual the practice is the truth (good or not )
                              So i am pleased that very soon a bunch of replications will come to share the experience.

                              good luck at all

                              Laurent
                              Woopy,

                              I wanted to give a technique that might be helpful in figuring out the rating of the electromagnets.
                              As you may know, the reactance of inductance devices is a function of the frequency and the waveform of the voltage applied to the coil.
                              Based on figure 21 of the document, the voltage applied to each primary coil is a full wave rectified voltage. I suggest building the following test setup:

                              Make a full wave variable power supply by connecting a full wave rectifier bridge to a variable autotransformer. In this way, you can adjust the voltage and current applied to the coils of the electromagnets. You will also need a true RMS volt/amp meter, or otherwise, estimate the RMS value from the graphs shown in the scope. The voltage rating shall be determined based on the current rating of the coil wire and the magnetic field before saturation.

                              In addition, the inductance of the electromagnet is different when the electromagnet is in isolation and when next to magnetic materials. For this reason, when measuring the inductance of the N electromagnet, for instance, you will need to place the iron cores of the 'y' and the 'S' electromagnets in the configuration for standard operation.

                              I hope the above description will help.

                              Thanks,

                              Wonju

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Wonju

                                I saw there is (a bit damaged) available text of Figuera patent. Am I correct ? Translation to english may help in understanding details.

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