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Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera

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  • Originally posted by wonju View Post
    The original waveform shown in the first graph is about right when you have a pure resistive load. The inductance of the primary coils should distort the shape a bit.

    I have no comments for the second graph.

    The third graph is not correct. You are showing two sinusoidal voltages in 90 degrees out of phase. If you applied these two signals to full wave rectifier, then, you get the correct voltage that should be applied to the primary coils. The voltage applied to the primary coils should be half-cycle sine waves. Refer to figure 21 of the document.

    Wonju.
    Maybe the '0' at the beginning of the time line is misleading a bit It is 0 A of current flowing through a coil. the trace is a sample from a running cycle when it comes to time line.

    Just look at it graphically. It has the same shape as the current traces above, all of them have high and low peaks at the same time! The last one is a current trace as well, not voltage! At the minimum peak a small amount of current still flows through a coil as per schematic!
    I am proposing this type of DC-offset sinusoidal wave form as it is my belief that maybe Clemente was trying to do just that!: linear or maybe even sinusoidal current rising/falling through the coils but he only had those simple inductive resistors at hand at the time of building. We do not know the operating frequency and input coil's and resistive element's inductances to predict the waveform on the output. It might have been close to sine wave AC...
    Last edited by kEhYo77; 11-12-2012, 09:49 PM.
    “ THE PERSON WHO SAYS IT CANNOT BE DONE SHOULD NOT INTERRUPT THE PERSON DOING IT ! ”

    Comment


    • Originally posted by wonju View Post
      Can you provide the advantages of your recommendations based on an analysis similar to the paper posted in this thread?

      Hi Wonju,
      I just wanted to help providing some details from the original patent that I have note while traslating into english. I don´t go against any experiment. I just wanted to offer a new perspective to try more coils orientations. Instead of testing just the configuration ||| (as inductor+ěnduced+inductor all in parallel) I think we should also try configuration as -|- and |-| . And by my knowledge I think that the best (at first) may be -|- because the inductor behaves as magnets with poles as (S)---(N) and the induced must be placed cutting the magnetic field lines (as in any other generator with permanet magnets)

      This is just to test every possible configuration in order to maximize the magnetic field variation thru the induced coil. This is not a delay in the replication because you can test it in hours and see the results. At first it is better to try all possible variations!!

      About the core of the induced coil: in the original patent is not mentioned: while the core of the inductor is clearly stated as sweet iron (to get an electromagnet to induce the field) , by contrary no reference is made to the core of the induced coil.

      I think that you have made a great work and a great explanation of the machine. I was just opening new possible experiments to try. If this thread exist is because of your work so I can not do more than encourage you to keep on offering us your expertise

      Warm regards!!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by wonju View Post
        Can you provide the advantages of your recommendations based on an analysis similar to the paper posted in this thread?

        Hi Wonju,
        I just wanted to help providing some details from the original patent that I have note while traslating into english. I don´t go against any experiment. I just wanted to offer a new perspective to try more coils orientations. Instead of testing just the configuration ||| (as inductor+ěnduced+inductor all in parallel) I think we should also try configuration as -|- and |-| . And by my knowledge I think that the best (at first) may be -|- because the inductor behaves as magnets with poles as (S)---(N) and the induced must be placed cutting the magnetic field lines (as in any other generator with permanet magnets)

        This is just to test every possible configuration in order to maximize the magnetic field variation thru the induced coil. This is not a delay in the replication because you can test it in hours and see the results. At first it is better to try all possible variations!!

        About the core of the induced coil: in the original patent is not mentioned: while the core of the inductor is clearly stated as sweet iron (to get an electromagnet to induce the field) , by contrary no reference is made to the core of the induced coil.

        I think that you have made a great work and a great explanation of the machine. I was just opening new possible experiments to try. If this thread exist is because of your work so I can not do more than encourage you to keep on offering us your expertise

        Warm regards!!

        Comment


        • [QUOTE=kEhYo77;214261]OK, so to better understand what we are dealing with here I have drawn a quick graph.



          Hi Kehyo77

          The first trace is about what i can get with my rotating commiutator and certain very high Ohmage coil (200 Ohms from fan motor taken out from microwave owen)

          But generally the wave is not so regular and is assymetric , i mean it climbs relatively as per your drawing and than it fall down sharply and approach a kind of ringing form.

          But the question is now is the voltage trace important or the CURRENT TRACE important.

          When i tried to get info from the Google translator of the Figuera patent , the important thing seems to be a PROGRESSIVE up an down current trace and i don't see any relation to a voltage trace. But perhaps the google translation is very bad ???

          OK going on the testing on my bench, and getting some better idea of the relation between the primary winding and the resistors stack value to get a nice repetitive U-shape CURRENT form.

          But until now no really impressive result on the secondary extarctable power

          OK hope this helps

          Good luck at all

          Laurent

          Comment


          • @hanon1492
            - - I have noted in the patent drawing that the wire connection to N and S coils are not the same.. I don´t know why. Maybe it is a stupid thing. But we may also have any distraction derived from the drawn parts that are blurred in the image and that we are taking as given in the reconstruction of the sketch.
            You are correct and the pdf documents posted concerning the Clemente device have many more errors. In any case there is only one person who's knowledge is relevant here and that is Mr.Clemente, he is the inventor and this is his creation. I believe it would be in everyone's best interests to stop chasing ghosts and listen to what Mr.Clemente has to say in his own words.
            Here is the correct wiring diagram.
            Attached Files
            Last edited by Allcanadian; 11-13-2012, 05:52 AM.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Allcanadian View Post
              @hanon1492


              You are correct and the pdf documents posted concerning the Clemente device have many more errors. In any case there is only one person who's knowledge is relevant here and that is Mr.Clemente, he is the inventor and this is his creation. I believe it would be in everyone's best interests to stop chasing ghosts and listen to what Mr.Clemente has to say in his own words.
              Here is the correct wiring diagram.
              I am ok with your diagram. In reality it should no matter how the diagram is shown. The important issue here is that the connection must generate a primary row with South Poles and the other with North Poles. And I think that is understood and clearly explained.

              In addition, please, feel free to point out any errors in the document. That is the purpose of this thread. It will make it better. Thanks.

              Wonju.
              Last edited by wonju; 11-13-2012, 02:37 AM.

              Comment


              • Laurent,

                Could you let's know the wire sizes of the coils and the number of turns?

                What is the rated voltage and current of the primary coils?

                Thanks, Laurent.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by wonju View Post
                  I am ok with your diagram. In reality it should no matter how the diagram is shown. The important issue here is that the connection must generate a primary row with South Poles and the other with North Poles. And I think that is understood and clearly explained.

                  In addition, please, feel free to point out any errors in the document. That is the purpose of this thread. It will make it better. Thanks.

                  Wonju.
                  Draw your attention to the red and black wires in AllCanadian's version of the diagram.

                  Red and black flip at the mid-point.

                  Which diagram is more accurate?

                  pt

                  Comment


                  • Huge support for the principle of alternative “flux paths”

                    as PJK has said the video's of Thane's work are getting a little thin on the ground as they are being taken down (for whatever reason)... regarding "alternative flux paths" I thus put these links for your consideration, I dare say most on this thread are familiar with the Bi toroid but for those who are not .for cross reference. (if Thane's work is being systematically removed two clicks puts it on your hard drive)

                    FREE ENERGY # 35 BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER - 377 % OVER UNITY MOTIONLESS - YouTube

                    also this thread opened by member vidbid regarding the Bi-toroid. Which if nothing else gives good construction idea's

                    http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post176428

                    Magnet Transformer (free energy) - YouTube

                    The latest video posted by Kurt on the Don Smiths thread is also using a Bi toroid alternative flux path I think you can hear the guys excitement …

                    39F Don Smith Device Project: BITOROID IN SELF-LOOP, CONCLUSION ANOMALY - YouTube

                    Static transformer … Bi toroid.... infinite energy machine I'm quite sure at the foundation we are considering the same principles, alternative flux paths which some call “loose coupling”.
                    In that regard The huge body of work and experimentation done by Hector Perez Torres and his team come centre stage.
                    You have all no doubt heard of “the rotoverter” there is a static version “The transverter” that is I guess “the transformer-verter” There is a vast amount of research and open sourced information available from this dedicated team here are three short videos regarding the use of a transformer and alternative flux paths.

                    TV-part I - YouTube

                    TV-part II - YouTube

                    TV-part III - YouTube
                    all in all I think it fly's dont you? I wonder at the moment if some 3ph off the shelf transformers isnt a way forward A'la the transverter
                    Best wishes Duncan
                    Whatever you can do,or dream you can,begin it.Boldness has genius,power and magic in it.Begin it now.

                    Comment


                    • Solenoids Electro Magnets and Electro Magnetic Windings 1921

                      Wonja

                      I hesitantly post up this book extract, from Solenoids Electro Magnets and Electro Magnetic Windings 1921. A few items I have been looking at recently appear to use flux switching as the energy gain. Whats of note here is combining the field of a permanent magnet with an electro magnet, and the attraction strength in the example increasing by 401 times for a small input.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by wonju View Post
                        Laurent,

                        Could you let's know the wire sizes of the coils and the number of turns?

                        What is the rated voltage and current of the primary coils?

                        Thanks, Laurent.

                        Hi Wonju

                        Sorry but i tested so many config that i cannot be precise on this question

                        but i can report that i have tested

                        Primaries in Fan motor from Microwave Oven , probably more than 30 AWG and much more than 1000 turns.

                        Than i have built primaries with 1000 turns 0.3 mm (about 28 AWG) and tested step up secondary of a lot of AWG and also step down

                        So it seems that all config reach to different results.

                        So feel free to test all what you have at disposal . anyway it will help.

                        I am going on , snaking in the technology , as per per my habit , and i am still very bullish on this kind of system

                        don't know why

                        but really BULLISH

                        good luck at all

                        Laurent

                        Comment


                        • Clemente´s Figuera patent from 1908 traslated into english

                          PATENT by CLEMENTE FIGUERA (year 1908) No. 44267 (Spain)

                          ELECTRICAL GENERATOR “FIGUERA”
                          BACKGROUND
                          If within a spinning magnetic field we rotate a closed circuit placed at right
                          angles to the lines of force a current will be induced for as long as there is
                          movement , and whose sign will depend on the direction in which the induced
                          circuit moves.
                          This is the foundation of all magnetic machines and electric dynamos from
                          the primitive, invented by Pixii, France and modified and improved later by
                          Clarke until the current dynamos of today.
                          The principle where is based this theory, carries the unavoidable need for the
                          movement of the induced circuit or the inductor circuit, and therefore these
                          machines are taken as transformer of mechanical work into electricity.
                          PRINCIPLE OF THE INVENTION
                          Watching closely what happens in a Dynamo in motion, is that the turns of
                          the induced circuit approaches and moves away from the magnetic centers
                          of the inductor magnet or electromagnets, and those turns, while spinning,
                          go through sections of the magnetic field of different power, because, while
                          this has its maximum attraction in the center of the core of each
                          electromagnet, this action will weaken as the induced is separated from the
                          center of the electromagnet, to increase again, when the induced is
                          approaching the center of another electromagnet with opposite sign to the
                          first one.
                          Because we all know that the effects that are manifested when a closed
                          circuit approaches and moves away from a magnetic center are the same as
                          when, this circuit being still and motionless, the magnetic field is increased
                          and reduced in intensity; since any variation , occurring in the flow traversing
                          a circuit is producing electrical induced current .It was considered the
                          possibility of building a machine that would work, not in the principle of
                          movement, as do the current dynamos, but using the principle of increase
                          and decrease, this is the variation of the power of the magnetic field, or the
                          electrical current which produces it.
                          The voltage from the total current of the current dynamos is the sum of partial
                          induced currents born in each one of the turns of the induced. Therefore it
                          matters little to these induced currents if they were obtained by the turning of
                          the induced, or by the variation of the magnetic flux that runs through them;
                          but in the first case, a greater source of mechanical work than obtained
                          electricity is required, and in the second case, the force necessary to achieve
                          the variation of flux is so insignificant that it can be derived without any
                          inconvenience, from the one supplied by the machine.
                          Until the present no machine based on this principle has been applied yet to
                          the production of large electrical currents, and which among other
                          advantages, has suppressed any necessity for motion and therefore the
                          force needed to produce it.
                          In order to privilege the application to the production of large industrial
                          electrical currents, on the principle that says that “there is production of
                          induced electrical current provided that you change in any way the flow of
                          force through the induced circuit,” seems that it is enough with the previously
                          exposed; however, as this application need to materialize in a machine, there
                          is need to describe it in order to see how to carry out a practical application
                          of said principle.
                          This principle is not new since it is just a consequence of the laws of
                          induction stated by Faraday in the year 1831: what it is new and requested to
                          privilege is the application of this principle to a machine which produces large
                          industrial electrical currents which until now cannot be obtained but
                          transforming mechanical work into electricity.
                          Let’s therefore make the description of a machine based on the prior
                          principle which is being privileged; but it must be noted, and what is sought is
                          the patent for the application of this principle, that all machines built based on
                          this principle, will be included in the scope of this patent, whatever the form
                          and way that has been used to make the application.
                          DESCRIPTION OF GENERATOR OF VARIABLE EXCITACION
                          “FIGUERA”
                          The machine comprise a fixed inductor circuit, consisting of several
                          electromagnets with soft iron cores exercising induction in the induced circuit,
                          also fixed and motionless, composed of several reels or coils, properly
                          placed. As neither of the two circuits spin, there is no need to make them
                          round, nor leave any space between one and the other.
                          Here what it is constantly changing is the intensity of the excitatory current
                          which drives the electromagnets and this is accomplished using a resistance,
                          through which circulates a proper current, which is taken from one foreign
                          origin into one or more electromagnets, magnetize one or more
                          electromagnets and, while the current is higher or lower the magnetization of
                          the electromagnets is decreasing or increasing and varying, therefore, the
                          intensity of the magnetic field , this is, the flow which crosses the induced
                          circuit.
                          To fix ideas is convenient to refer to the attached drawing which is no more
                          than a sketch to understand the operation of the machine built using the
                          principle outlined before.
                          Suppose that electromagnets are represented by rectangles N and S.
                          Between their poles is located the induced circuit represented by the line “y”
                          (small). Let be “R” a resistance that is drawn in an elementary manner to
                          facilitate the comprehension of the entire system, and “+” and “-” the
                          excitatory current which is taken from an external and foreigner generator.
                          The different pieces of the resistance will connect, as seen in the drawing,
                          with the commutator bars embedded in a cylinder of insulating material that
                          does not move; but around it, and always in contact with more than one
                          contact, rotates a brush “O”, which carries the foreign current, revolves. One
                          of the ends of the resistance is connected with electromagnets N, and the
                          other with electromagnets S, half of the terminals of the resistance pieces go
                          to the half of the commutator bars of the cylinder and the other half of these
                          commutator bars are directly connected to the firsts.
                          The operation of the machine is as follows: it has been said that the brush
                          “O” rotates around the cylinder “G” and always in contact with two of their
                          contacts. When the brush is in touch with contact “1″ the current, which
                          comes from the external generator and passes through the brush and
                          contact “1″, will magnetize electromagnets N to the maximum but will not
                          magnetize the electromagnets S because the whole resistance prevents it.
                          Therefore, first electromagnets are full of current and the second ones are
                          empty. When the brush is in touch with contact “2″ the current won’t entirely
                          go to electromagnets N because it has to pass through part of the resistance;
                          In contrast, some current goes to the electrodes S because it has to
                          overcome less resistance than in the previous case. This same reasoning is
                          applicable to the case in which the brush “O” closes the circuit in each of the
                          different contact until finished those in a semicircle, and begins to operate in
                          the other half, which are directly connected to each other. In short, the
                          resistance makes the function of a splitter of current because those current
                          not going to excite some electromagnets excites others and so on; it can be
                          said that electrodes N and S works simultaneously and in opposite way
                          because while the first ones are filling up with current, the seconds are
                          emptying and while repeating this effect continuously and orderly a constant
                          variation of the magnetic fields within which is placed the induced circuit can
                          be maintained, without any more complications than the turning of a brush or
                          group of brushes that move circularly around the cylinder “G” powered by the
                          action of a small electrical motor.
                          As seen in the drawing the current, once that has made its function, returns
                          to the generator where taken; naturally in every revolution of the brush will be
                          a change of sign in the induced current; but a switch will do it continuous if
                          wanted. From this current is derived a small part to excite the machine
                          converting it in self-exciting and to operate the small motor which moves the
                          brush and the switch; the external current supply, this is the feeding current,
                          is removed and the machine continue working without any help indefinitely.
                          The invention is really new; very daring and above all has huge technical and
                          industrial consequences under all sights, we didn’t ask for privilege of
                          invention until having a machine working based on these principles which
                          gives the practical realization without which these claims will be useless.
                          ADVANTAGES OF THE ELECTRICAL GENERATOR “FIGUERA”
                          1st. Give completely for free, electrical currents continuous or alternate of
                          any voltage applicable to the production of:
                          1. Driving force.
                          2. Light.
                          3. Heat.
                          4. All previous uses.
                          2nd. No need whatsoever of driving force of any kind nor chemical
                          reactions nor fuel.
                          3rd. Does not need lubrication, only small amounts.
                          4th. So Simple that vigilance that can be overlooked.
                          5th. Does not produce smoke,noise,nor vibration in operation.
                          6th. Indefinite life.
                          7th. Apply to all uses, home management and industrial.
                          8th. Easy construction.
                          Ninth. Cheap to produce in the market
                          NOTE
                          The applied patent for 20 years is requested upon a “NEW GENERATOR OF
                          ELECTRICITY, so-called “FIGUERA” of variable excitation, designed to
                          produce electrical currents for industrial applications without using neither
                          driving force, nor chemical reactions. The machine is essentially
                          characterized by two series of electromagnets which form the inductor circuit,
                          between whose poles the reels of the induced are properly placed. Both
                          circuits, remaining motionless, induced and inductor, are able to produce a
                          current induced by the constant variation of the intensity of the magnetic field
                          forcing the excitatory current (coming at first from any external source) to
                          pass through a rotating brush which, in its rotation movement, is placed in
                          communication with the commutator bars or contacts of a ring distributor or
                          cylinder whose contacts are in communication with a resistance whose value
                          varies from a maximum to a minimum and vice versa, according with the
                          commutator bars of the cylinder which operates, and for that reason the
                          resistance is connected to the electromagnets N by one of its side, and the
                          electromagnets S at the other side, in such a way that the excitatory current
                          will be magnetizing successively with more or less strength to the first
                          electromagnets, while, oppositely, will be decreasing or increasing the
                          magnetization in the second ones, determining these variations in intensity
                          of the magnetic field, the production of the current in the induced, current that
                          we can use for any work for the most part, and of which only one small
                          fraction is derived for the actuation of a small electrical motor which make
                          rotate the brush, and another fraction goes to the continuous excitation of the
                          electromagnets, and, therefore, converting the machine in self-exciting, being
                          able to suppress the external power which was used at first to excite the
                          electromagnets. Once the machinery is in motion, no new force is required
                          and the machine will continue in operation indefinitely.
                          All in accordance with the described and detailed in this report and as
                          represented in the drawings which are attached.

                          Barcelona, the 30th of October, 1908. Signed: Constantino de Buforn
                          (as representative of Clemente Figuera)

                          External link with a revised version of the translation

                          Attached Files
                          Last edited by hanon1492; 10-09-2013, 09:12 PM. Reason: Edited: Included a link with a revised version of the english traslation. the attached file contains a newer version of the drawing with better resolution than the one the previous revision.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by woopy View Post
                            Hi Wonju

                            Sorry but i tested so many config that i cannot be precise on this question

                            but i can report that i have tested

                            Primaries in Fan motor from Microwave Oven , probably more than 30 AWG and much more than 1000 turns.

                            Than i have built primaries with 1000 turns 0.3 mm (about 28 AWG) and tested step up secondary of a lot of AWG and also step down

                            So it seems that all config reach to different results.

                            So feel free to test all what you have at disposal . anyway it will help.

                            I am going on , snaking in the technology , as per per my habit , and i am still very bullish on this kind of system

                            don't know why

                            but really BULLISH

                            good luck at all

                            Laurent
                            Laurent,

                            I am assuming that you are referring to the system that you showed in your first video. It seems to me that the primaries generate a decent magnetic field. On the other hand, the thinner the secondary wire, the less current you can draw from the device. Can you test the device with a secondary coil having bigger gauge wire? Let's say 150 to 200 turns of #20 (or #18) AWG. Some times you can get this wire from junk transformers.

                            I also noticed from your first video that you are using six resistors. The Figuera’s apparatus has 8 taps and seven resistors. It looks that something is wrong with your configuration. It could be the reason why the current/voltage waveforms are not more triangular.

                            I am expecting to have my device ready for testing by the first or second week of December. Because of my work load, I will be off for couple weeks or so. You guys keep up with the good work you have been doing so far.

                            SOMETHING I WANTED TO ADD: IF THIS DEVICE WORKS, IT CAN BE USED WITHOUT PAYING FOR PATENT RIGHTS! THE RIGHTS EXPIRED LONG TIME AGO AND IT IS IN PUBLIC DOMAIN!
                            Thanks,
                            Wonju
                            Last edited by wonju; 11-14-2012, 01:03 AM.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by hanon1492 View Post
                              Hi all,
                              Here is the traslation of the last patent of Clemente Figuera from the original text in spanish ( El enigma de Clemente Figuera y la máquina de la energĂ*a infinita - TecnologĂ*a Obsoleta )

                              ----

                              PATENT by CLEMENTE FIGUERA (year 1908) No. 44267 (Spain)

                              .................................................. ........
                              Hanon,

                              Thank you very much for the information! You are doing a job that takes a lot of time and effort.

                              Regards,
                              Wonu

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by john_g View Post
                                Wonja

                                I hesitantly post up this book extract, from Solenoids Electro Magnets and Electro Magnetic Windings 1921. A few items I have been looking at recently appear to use flux switching as the energy gain. Whats of note here is combining the field of a permanent magnet with an electro magnet, and the attraction strength in the example increasing by 401 times for a small input.
                                John,

                                Please, do not hesitate to post your views.

                                It sounds interesting. But, I still don't understand how the "flux switching" can generate the extra energy. Can you expand on your concept? How would you compare a polarized electromagnet, which uses Permanent Magnets, with the Figuera's apparatus that doesn't?

                                Thanks,
                                Wonju

                                Comment

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