Ionization & Water Fuel

[tutanka]

I completely agree that just burning hho isn't good enough. It has
some little explosion then shrinks in volume when recombining back
into water.

I think there is a confusion in terminology. I have seen references that you
have stated that the H+ and HO- is created by the water and various
terminology has been interchanged between completely different concepts.

If you don't mind, let's set down the definitions that you have described.

WATER FUEL CELL (WFC) - this is where H2O (WATER) is electrolyzed to
create a "commonly ducted gas" called HHO. and electrolyte may or may
not be needed. Distilled water with koh may give best gas production. So,
HHO and moisture exits cell.

This is first component used from Meyer after have created injector or as I call MiniWfc cell/reactor.

AIR PROCESSOR (AP) - this causes intake air to become positively
charged by stripping electrons by high voltage and the LED light cranks
energy level up in bonding electrons weakening bond and the air also
picks up a magnetic charge either N or S. Most of this positively charged
air is Nitrogen and Oxygen.

GAS PROCESSOR (GP) - you give diagram showing pos outside and neg
inside to negatively charge steam, moisture, etc... does this "water"
processor including charging HHO? I think this is where some confusion
comes from because in some instances it appears you're talking about
extra water in addition to HHO and in some cases it seems you're
calling HHO water. Does this GP process the HHO and moisture coming
from the WFC or is it intended to process separately introduced water?
If just the HHO and water moisture from WFC, then this is negatively
charged HHO and HOH.

The contents of the AP and GP (positively charged nitrogen/oxygen)
and (negatively charged HHO and HOH) are mixed together and are
delivered to the intake valve to be compressed.
When the N and O come together with the HHO and HOH. The mixture
is homogenized? The positively charged oxygen may pull electron from
HHO and/or HOH to free up H1 and creates more HO.

You think with h2opower mind.. negatively, positively.. youstart from water.. as you have write into cell is possible use electrolyte or not.. that depend from technology and principle used.. Think with your mind.. you think that mixed magical air (without nitrogen) that have oxygen ionized (called destabilized) with water and use standard spark you obtain thermal explosive energy?

AIR OR GAS PROCESSOR , in my reaction use ONLY AMBIENT AIR and as result I obtain neutral ions or called also PLASMA (different from PLASMA ARC)
Still unsure what N is doing at this moment.

I would imagine the ignition is set for after TDC so once it is maximally
compressed, there is heat and pressure. The heat causes some ionization,
but I'm not sure exactly how.

The piston starts to go down just a bit and then the plasma starts.


Reaction start to TDC no after TDC.. needed time for obtain complete reaction iside chambre of combustion and you need max power force on piston

REACTOR - Compression chamber and plasma is the reactor.


The plasma dissociates more HHO and HOH freeing up more H1 to be
combined with super positively charged O. So lots of HO?

Nitrogen is maybe just a filler to take up volume so that H1 freed up
instantly increases in volume substantially causing downward pressure
on piston - especially with high heat and then this mixture is combusted.

Ok.. chambre of combustion of chambre of reactor is the same thing.. however reaction is composed of two parts.. one externally and one internally to chambre of reactor.
About H1 formation.. similarry Lyne furnace the H2 is transformed into H1 passing trought electric arc but using particular electrodes..
Meyer using unipolar voltage very similar to our plasma capacitor... but not the same.. plasma capacitor have two characteristics very important respect to other. However Nitrogen and oxygen have very important part, first and on the reaction inside chambre of reactor.. I can't ask clear but you need to think simple without complicated concepts.

[Aaron]

Tutanka's EEC is Nitrogen?

"To ensure proper flame projection and subsequent flame stability, pumps for the ambient air, non-combustible gas and water introduce these components to the injector under static pressure up to and beyond 126 psi.


Flame temperature is regulated by controlling the volume flow-rate of each fluid media in direct relationship to applied voltage intensity. To elevate flame temperature, fluid displacement is increased while the volume flow rate of non-combustible gases is maintained or reduced and the applied voltage amplitude is increased. To lower flame temperature, the fluid flow rate if non-combustible gases is increased and pulse voltage amplitude is lowered. To establish a predetermined flame temperature, the fluid media and applied voltage are adjusted independently. The flame pattern is further maintained as the ignited, compressed, and moving gases are projected from the nozzle-ports in distribution disc assembly 4 under pressure and the gas expands in the zone and is ignited.



In the voltage zone several functions occur simultaneously to initiate and trigger thermal energy yield. Water mist droplets are exposed to high intensity pulsating voltage fields in accordance with an electrical polarization process that separates the atoms of the water molecule and causes the atoms to experience electron ejection. The polar nature of the water molecule which facilitates the formation of minute droplets in the mist appears to cause a relationship between the droplet size and the voltage required to effect the process, i.e., the greater the droplet size, the higher the voltage required. The liberated atoms of the water molecule interact with laser primed ionized ambient air gases to cause a highly energized and destabilized mass of combustible gas atoms to thermally ignite. Incoming ambient air gases are laser primed and ionized when passing through a gas processor; and an electron extraction circuit (Figure 5) captures and consumes in sink 55 ejected electrons and prevents electron flow into the resonant circuit.



In terms of performance, reliability and safety, ionized air gases and water fuel liquid do not become volatile until the fuel mixture reaches the voltage and combustion zones. Injected non-combustible gases retard and control the combustion rate of hydrogen during gas ignition."


So intake should be pressurized with supercharger or other kind of pump.


So flame temp goes up or down with hho and hoh in relation to non-
combustible gases. More water higher voltage = hotter flame.
Less water and lower voltage = cooler flame.


"The liberated atoms of the water molecule interact with laser primed ionized ambient air gases to cause a highly energized and destabilized mass of combustible gas atoms to thermally ignite. Incoming ambient air gases are laser primed and ionized when passing through a gas processor; and an electron extraction circuit (Figure 5) captures and consumes in sink 55 ejected electrons and prevents electron flow into the resonant circuit."


Meyer calls the air processor the gas processor. But Tutanka's air

processor processes and positively charges the air and Tutanka's gp
negatively charges the HHO or HOH. So their reference to gas processor
is not the same.


Anyway, plasma hits HHO and HOH and separates HH from O, electrons
are absorbed mostly by nitrogen since nitrogen makes up a majority of
the mixture. So is Tutanka's EEC simply nitrogen that is positively charged?

[Aaron]

Meyer's injectors

All your questions depends how is based your reaction.. Meyer first have started from WFC and after have realized injectors.. How you see complete reaction? Start an little diagram of reaction that you imagine in your mind.

"production of a hydrogen-containing fuel gas from water in a process in which the dielectric property of water and/or a mixture of water and other components determines a resonant condition that produces a breakdown of the atomic bonding of atoms in the water molecule. The injector delivers a mixture of water mist, ionized gases, and non-combustible gas to a zone or locus within which the breakdown process leading to the release of elemental hydrogen from water molecules occurs. "

"the invention relates not only to the physical configuration of an injector apparatus but also to the overall process and system parameters determined in the apparatus to achieve the release of thermal energy."

"water (H2O) is atomized into a fine spray and mixed with (1) ionized ambient air gases and (2) other non-combustible gases such as nitrogen, argon and other rare gases, and water vapor. (Exhaust gas produced by the combustion of hydrogen with oxygen is a non-combustible water vapor."

That process is different from yours since yours does not produce
water vapor. You said there is a little water vapor comparable to gasoline
combustion so your process is one step ahead of this process?

"The injector creates a mixture, under pressure in a defined zone (or locus) of water, ionized gases and non-combustible gases. Pressure is an important factor in the maintenance of the reaction condition and causes the water mist/gas mixture to become intimately mixed, compressed, and destabilized to produce combustion when activated under resonant conditions of ignition. In accordance with the aforementioned conversion process of my patent and application, when water is subjected to a resonance condition water molecules expand and distend; electrons are ejected from the water molecule and absorbed by ionized gases; and the water molecule, thus destabilized, breaks down into its elemental components of hydrogen (2H) and oxygen (O) in combustion zone. The hydrogen atoms released from the molecule provide the fuel source in the mixture for combustion with oxygen"

Do we actually have to be concerned with "resonance"? Can it simply be
said that the plasma dissociates HH into H and H?

The plasma separates HHO into HH and O instead of H and HO like I
posted. The oxygen in your process could do this same thing separating
the HHO into HH and O. Then the plasma afterwards separates HH into
H??

The nitrogen that is possibly POSITIVELY charged in your AP (air
processor) is there to perform the function of receiving electrons during
plasma event.

[Aaron]

definitions

Tutanka,

I completely agree that just burning hho isn't good enough. It has
some little explosion then shrinks in volume when recombining back
into water.

I think there is a confusion in terminology. I have seen references that you
have stated that the H+ and HO- is created by the water and various
terminology has been interchanged between completely different concepts.

If you don't mind, let's set down the definitions that you have described.

WATER FUEL CELL (WFC) - this is where H2O (WATER) is electrolyzed to
create a "commonly ducted gas" called HHO. and electrolyte may or may
not be needed. Distilled water with koh may give best gas production. So,
HHO and moisture exits cell.

AIR PROCESSOR (AP) - this causes intake air to become positively
charged by stripping electrons by high voltage and the LED light cranks
energy level up in bonding electrons weakening bond and the air also
picks up a magnetic charge either N or S. Most of this positively charged
air is Nitrogen and Oxygen.

GAS PROCESSOR (GP) - you give diagram showing pos outside and neg
inside to negatively charge steam, moisture, etc... does this "water"
processor including charging HHO? I think this is where some confusion
comes from because in some instances it appears you're talking about
extra water in addition to HHO and in some cases it seems you're
calling HHO water. Does this GP process the HHO and moisture coming
from the WFC or is it intended to process separately introduced water?
If just the HHO and water moisture from WFC, then this is negatively
charged HHO and HOH.

The contents of the AP and GP (positively charged nitrogen/oxygen)
and (negatively charged HHO and HOH) are mixed together and are
delivered to the intake valve to be compressed.

When the N and O come together with the HHO and HOH. The mixture
is homogenized? The positively charged oxygen may pull electron from
HHO and/or HOH to free up H1 and creates more HO.

Still unsure what N is doing at this moment.

I would imagine the ignition is set for after TDC so once it is maximally
compressed, there is heat and pressure. The heat causes some ionization,
but I'm not sure exactly how.

The piston starts to go down just a bit and then the plasma starts.

REACTOR - Compression chamber and plasma is the reactor.

The plasma dissociates more HHO and HOH freeing up more H1 to be
combined with super positively charged O. So lots of HO?

Nitrogen is maybe just a filler to take up volume so that H1 freed up
instantly increases in volume substantially causing downward pressure
on piston - especially with high heat and then this mixture is combusted.

So, the main parts are:

WFC
AP
GP
REACTOR

[tutanka]

Ok, to prevent H1 from going past the rings...

If h1 is introduced in the intake and compressed, it can go past
the rings.

But if h1 is produced AFTER compression, then it won't get lost right?

I'm betting ignition is AFTER TDC from 1 to 6 degrees or so.

So mixture is fully compressed, then piston starts to come down just a
bit, plasma ignites and frees H1 while the "vacuum" of piston coming
down holds all those gases inside. Of course explosive mixture will give
a pressure that would force some blow by gas, but by that time, H1
has already been available for burn without going past rings first.

No H1 OR H2 isn't introduced from inlet manifold into engine.. if you use only gas, normally aspirated, your engine don't run and in all case also if you use direct injection, like BMW, you need impressive amount of water gas and I have more dubts for gas creation.. only sebosfato seem that have found solution for create some gas but as I have written, and don't change opinion, water gas isn't an true combustible useful like gasoline.

[tutanka]

You also mention water processor to negatively charge it.

Are you considering HHO water? Or are you talking about negatively
charging steam?

You did say that extra water isn't needed so the steam creation is
not needed and therefore the "water" must be HHO that is negatively
charged? It stores this charge and releases it when the plasma hits it.

All your questions depends how is based your reaction.. Meyer first have started from WFC and after have realized injectors.. How you see complete reaction? Start an little diagram of reaction that you imagine in your mind.

[tutanka]

The HHO cell should produce both h1 and h2.

Meyer used H, O and "non-combustible gasses", which are mostly N.

If H1 cannot pass piston rings, then...

A. Something is blocking it from going by - electrically or physically.

or

B. Something is attached to H1 making a bigger molecule.

N can attach to H for ammonia, but I guess that is too complicated.

O could attach to H1 making a bigger molecule that is harder to get past
rings.

C. Something else?

Cell produce ONLY HHO or better HOH water gas and little amount of water vapour not H1 OR H2.

[Aaron]

h1 created on downstroke

Ok, to prevent H1 from going past the rings...

If h1 is introduced in the intake and compressed, it can go past
the rings.

But if h1 is produced AFTER compression, then it won't get lost right?

I'm betting ignition is AFTER TDC from 1 to 6 degrees or so.

So mixture is fully compressed, then piston starts to come down just a
bit, plasma ignites and frees H1 while the "vacuum" of piston coming
down holds all those gases inside. Of course explosive mixture will give
a pressure that would force some blow by gas, but by that time, H1
has already been available for burn without going past rings first.

[Aaron]

Do you consider HHO to be the "water"?

You also mention water processor to negatively charge it.

Are you considering HHO water? Or are you talking about negatively
charging steam?

You did say that extra water isn't needed so the steam creation is
not needed and therefore the "water" must be HHO that is negatively
charged? It stores this charge and releases it when the plasma hits it.

[Aaron]

H1 retained

Ok.. but from where H1 comes outside? Your mind is every oriented to creation of gas. But I assure you, in this case H1 don't pass the piston rings.. Which elements use the reaction of meyer? This you must ask you before giving a solution . Regards

The HHO cell should produce both h1 and h2.

Meyer used H, O and "non-combustible gasses", which are mostly N.

If H1 cannot pass piston rings, then...

A. Something is blocking it from going by - electrically or physically.

or

B. Something is attached to H1 making a bigger molecule.

N can attach to H for ammonia, but I guess that is too complicated.

O could attach to H1 making a bigger molecule that is harder to get past
rings.

C. Something else?

[tutanka]

You said the plasma converts diatomic hydrogen h2 into monoatomic
hydrogen h1.

Kanarev says h1 absorbs electrons.

H1 has energy that is a few times more powerful than H2.

You say h1 is necessary for THERMAL energy release.

You seem to say that there is too much h1 loss pass piston rings,
so is there not enough h1 for hydrogen explosion in combustion chamber?

If H is broken off from HHO leaving H and HO, if the h1 is lost and there
is a lot of HO, does the volume of HO increase the moment a H1 is
taken away from HHO?

Positive charged ambient air + Heat + Pressure + Plasma = N2O

Does N2o contribute it's oxygen to h1 to prevent h1 from being lost?

Ok.. but from where H1 comes outside? Your mind is every oriented to creation of gas. But I assure you, in this case H1 don't pass the piston rings.. Which elements use the reaction of meyer? This you must ask you before giving a solution . Regards

[Aaron]

h1

You said the plasma converts diatomic hydrogen h2 into monoatomic
hydrogen h1.

Kanarev says h1 absorbs electrons.

H1 has energy that is a few times more powerful than H2.

You say h1 is necessary for THERMAL energy release.

You seem to say that there is too much h1 loss pass piston rings,
so is there not enough h1 for hydrogen explosion in combustion chamber?

If H is broken off from HHO leaving H and HO, if the h1 is lost and there
is a lot of HO, does the volume of HO increase the moment a H1 is
taken away from HHO?

Positive charged ambient air + Heat + Pressure + Plasma = N2O

Does N2o contribute it's oxygen to h1 to prevent h1 from being lost?

[tutanka]

Wait, there is confusion here. Rosco, H1 isn't a molecule, it is monoatomic
hydrogen. It isn't a molecule unless there is H2.

Tutanka, you then say molecular state is not good for endothermic
reaction. But seem to agree that H1 isn't the way and that you also
consider H1 "molecular state"?

Yes, H1 is atomic hydrogen and appear as phase of transition inside reaction..

[tutanka]

[QUOTE=Aaron;82209]This is your air processor according to the picture you posted in the
other thread:



HI,
Yes, is my gas processor. About Kanarev Plasma cell.. I know Prof. Kanarev, we are friends but the way isn't produce a lot of gas because you can't use properly inside availables engines.

[Aaron]

Tutanka Air Processor

More complicated.. Think simple.. you have a lot of nitrogen as inert gas.. first .. but after passing trought gas processor? You need to study how work an ionizer and how produce if you add an EEC similarry to Meyer. My suggestion is .. deleted from your mind all info reading meyer gas processor and start your theory/work using true elementary studies.

This is your air processor according to the picture you posted in the
other thread: