Ionization & Water Fuel

[1NRG24Seven]

Aaron, was following this thread also along with H20powers thread on Stan Meyers.

I also think plasma plays a major role, in fact I believe its the missing ingrediant in most HHO systems.

Think about the GEET system for awhile and understand that its develops high temps and a natural plasma effect in a magnetic field then temps drop to cold at another stage. All these factors is what causes the natural plasma being formed. Stan just went about it another way. I think its all more simple then we realize, so simple in fact you might have to stumble upon it by accident. I think we have a tendancy to over complicate things that are simple, so we look at the complex and miss what is right under our nose.

Just my 2 bits worth

Good Day!!!...24

[Aaron]

reaction

1. HHO + ONO + plasma = OH, OH, NO

2. OH & OH combusts releasing thermal energy

3. NO attracts O for ONO and HO attracts H for HHO (exhaust)

Oh no! lol

[Aaron]

Nitrogen Oxide

Just for reference:
Nitrogen oxide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nitrogen oxide is typically any binary compound of oxygen and nitrogen, or a mixture of such compounds:

• Nitric oxide (NO), nitrogen(II) oxide
• Nitrogen dioxide (NO2), nitrogen(IV) oxide
• Nitrous oxide (N2O), nitrogen (I) oxide
• Dinitrogen trioxide (N2O3), nitrogen(II,IV) oxide
• Dinitrogen tetroxide (N2O4), nitrogen(IV) oxide
• Dinitrogen pentoxide (N2O5), nitrogen(V) oxide

(Note that the last three are unstable.)


Chemical reactions that produce nitrogen oxides often produce several different compounds, the proportions of which depend on the specific reaction and conditions. For this reason, secondary[clarification needed

Nitric oxide, NO



Nitrogen dioxide, NO2



Nitrous oxide, N2O



Dinitrogen trioxide, N2O3



Dinitrogen tetroxide, N2O4

[Aaron]

reaction?

Nitrogen could be oxygen carrier simply to deliver more oxygen for
combusting h1.

But during or after combustion, nitrogen could then be available to bond with
oxygen so oxygen doesn't bond with hydrogen to form water.

When plasma ignition starts, it ionizes the mixture of hho and positively
charged air. H is separated from HHO leaving H and HO.

At same time, N and O is separated and O immediately binds to H
so we have a bunch of OH and N. OH combusts.

Then N joins O for NO and H joins with HO for HHO instead of HOH.

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Anyway, is there any particular off the shelf engine that would be
best to start with? 50cc 4 stroke or something?

[tutanka]

"When the mixture is in the compression chamber and is compressed and
heated, is Helium created? Is there enough heat and pressure to do this?
I doubt it but it might be possible."

No, Helium isn't created..

"Or, when the plasma "spark" starts, does it fuse H1 together with other
H1 to create Helium. The energy in He is less than two H1's so the
difference between the two energy levels is the energy that is released
in heat and light and it is this explosion that forces the piston down. ? "


H1 is needed for create thermal explosive energy


"My view differs from H2OPower because he doesn't think nitrogen is
a part of it, but I think it is inevitable for nitrogen to play an important
role."

Yes, Nitrogen is important and used inside reaction

"If air processor creates no or n2o (nitrous), normally in gas engines it
drops the temperature of the mixture so that it becomes more dense
so more volume of air/fuel can be crammed into the combustion chamber.
Also, it simply acts as a carrier for more oxygen for more thorough burning."


Time ago I suppose that MEYER used N2O created inside Gas Processor for obtain thermal explosive energy. Gas Processor do not create N2O.

[Aaron]

Fusing H into He releasing energy?

Tutanka,

Here are your last few posts in this thread:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

"... At today more peoples,if not all, are oriented to create water gas, or brown gas, or HHO... In all case our minds are educated to burn.. and water gas is the same for us must be burned.. I believe that we must watch beyond. I have studied more the thing and at today I can assert that meyer he has been what he has comprised a lot but in all the cases not creed that it has intentional to make to understand this that it had uncovered. The data contained in the patents have been stirred like a bunch from poker. Mther nature it has given to all the necessary elements to us and they must be stirred entirety like a bunch from poker."

It looks like you're saying that we're simply brainwashed to burn fuel and
and we are also conditioned to simply burn water as well. You say we must
look beyond this - are you saying that we should not burn the water with
fire or look at the plasma effect on the fuel as not a burn which implies
wasting it or as an energy release or triggered?

A poker you stick in a fireplace or poker like the card game? You're saying
that Meyer's info is so mixed up nobody knows what is going on with it.
I guess a bunch means some wood or coals in your analogy?

You're saying mother nature gives us the elements we need and they
must be stirred. Is that an analogy to literally make them homogenous?
Or, just mix them up in the right way? In water and air, we have H, O,
and N. There are trace gases but these three make up almost all of it.
Air has about 12-20% oxygen depending on where in the world. And there
is probably 75% Nitrogen and the rest are trace gases. Water has 2/3
hydrogen and 1/3 oxygen.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

"And what is the sense to produce H1? H1 is extremely little molecule and more volatile..Lyne start from H2 in a closed circuit instead you start reaction from water using a engine and as you know you don't obtain H2/O2 separately from water.. Used water directly isn't good for an standard metallic engine and some problems are generated inside."

There are ways to deal with the water issue, but preventing water from
forming to begin with obviously deals with it.

Using water directly isn't good - this could mean not injecting any liquid
moisture directly and not using classical water injection. I believe you're
goal is to have a mixture in the combustion chamber than once ignited,
will not turn back into h2o - and that should not happen if it is an
endothermic reaction by combusting h1? When h1 is "burned", what is
the reaction? There is only other H, N and O and trace gasses.

When the mixture is in the compression chamber and is compressed and
heated, is Helium created? Is there enough heat and pressure to do this?
I doubt it but it might be possible.

Or, when the plasma "spark" starts, does it fuse H1 together with other
H1 to create Helium. The energy in He is less than two H1's so the
difference between the two energy levels is the energy that is released
in heat and light and it is this explosion that forces the piston down. ?

I can see that this is not burning the H1 but fusing it into something else
and releasing the net difference in energy.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

"Reaction described for me don't have sense.. seem the same words of
h2opower.. true reaction is similar mathematical formula.. and in all cases ynto think simple."

My view differs from H2OPower because he doesn't think nitrogen is
a part of it, but I think it is inevitable for nitrogen to play an important
role.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

"I think that you have understand that I have found solution and I can't write step by step the reaction.. at the same time I ask you that .. clear from your mind meyer principle on oxygen destabilized and think more simple.. read my previously last post not old.. your mind must work on these input for reach illumination .. h2opower think that thermal explosive energy is reached using the ionized oxygen atoms .. IONIZED GASES are necessary yes.. but not SIMPLE for split water and obtain H2/H1.. thermal explosive energy as result don't released more water vapour but nitrogen, little NOx, rare gas and very little amount of water vapour similarry gasoline combustion.. that result isn't magical but only an mathematical composition of elements."

If air processor creates no or n2o (nitrous), normally in gas engines it
drops the temperature of the mixture so that it becomes more dense
so more volume of air/fuel can be crammed into the combustion chamber.
Also, it simply acts as a carrier for more oxygen for more thorough burning.

[tutanka]

I have been following this thread closely for a while. It is an interesting approach to an age old problem. I have done testing myself on different systems over the years. I have been able to seperate the hydrogen and oxygen by using different catalysts. I haven't as of yet tried using a plasma discharge or stream to do this. You also may be solving another problem, where the pistons of an ICE becomes brittle while burning hydrogen fuel. These are two of the biggest obstacles presented in the HHO controversy. Many are using HHO to enhance their fuel mileage, but none that I know of are running on water alone. I have been considering building a gas turbine to run on water alone. This would most likely eliminate some of these problems, but right now I don't have the time or money.
Good luck with your designs and I hope they will work as planned. Stealth

Hello,
HHO isn't as standard combustible, you can burn it but you can't use into standard engine as gasoline, the same if you want use an turbine..

[Stealth]

I have been following this thread closely for a while. It is an interesting approach to an age old problem. I have done testing myself on different systems over the years. I have been able to seperate the hydrogen and oxygen by using different catalysts. I haven't as of yet tried using a plasma discharge or stream to do this. You also may be solving another problem, where the pistons of an ICE becomes brittle while burning hydrogen fuel. These are two of the biggest obstacles presented in the HHO controversy. Many are using HHO to enhance their fuel mileage, but none that I know of are running on water alone. I have been considering building a gas turbine to run on water alone. This would most likely eliminate some of these problems, but right now I don't have the time or money.
Good luck with your designs and I hope they will work as planned. Stealth

[tutanka]

Aaron,
I think that you have understand that I have found solution and I can't write step by step the reaction.. at the same time I ask you that .. clear from your mind meyer principle on oxygen destabilized and think more simple.. read my previously last post not old.. your mind must work on these input for reach illumination .. h2opower think that thermal explosive energy is reached using the ionized oxygen atoms .. IONIZED GASES are necessary yes.. but not SIMPLE for split water and obtain H2/H1.. thermal explosive energy as result don't released more water vapour but nitrogen, little NOx, rare gas and very little amount of water vapour similarry gasoline combustion.. that result isn't magical but only an mathematical composition of elements. Regards

[tutanka]

Hi Tutanka,

I didn't go through all your posts a second time; maybe just 10%.

Anyway, here is a brief summary of the concepts to see if this is what
you're saying... any comment?

--------------

HHO burning causes exothermic reaction that creates water. This is IMPLOSIVE.

Endothermic reaction is desired to get THERMAL EXPLOSIVE ENERGY out of water. Water does not form from an endothermic reaction caused by burning H1 (mono-atomic hydrogen). This is EXPLOSIVE.

High compression is desired to generate heat, which further ionizes the mixture. I

HI Aaron,
Reaction described for me don't have sense.. seem the same words of
h2opower.. true reaction is similar mathematical formula.. and in all cases ynto think simple..

[Aaron]

Thermal Explosive Energy methodology?

Hi Tutanka,

I didn't go through all your posts a second time; maybe just 10%.

Anyway, here is a brief summary of the concepts to see if this is what
you're saying... any comment?

--------------

HHO burning causes exothermic reaction that creates water. This is IMPLOSIVE.

Endothermic reaction is desired to get THERMAL EXPLOSIVE ENERGY out of water. Water does not form from an endothermic reaction caused by burning H1 (mono-atomic hydrogen). This is EXPLOSIVE.

High compression is desired to generate heat, which further ionizes the mixture. I

[tutanka]

Hi everybody!


Aaron,
thanks for all your questions in this thread. Many of them I have had in mind for long time, too.

Hope, we will get some answers from none NDA people.



rosco1, tutanka,
are you located in Italy?



Beside the ionization, I guess, we should take care of producing H1-Atoms prefered to H2-Molecules. In Occult Ether Pysics, William Lyne describes his Atomic Hydrogen Furnance. On page 103 he gives an (alternative) way to produce H1. Lyne refers to Langmuir back in 1912, who said that lead amalgam cathode produced nascent (atomic) hydrogen. Lyne makes a sketch of an electrolysis cell with lead amalgam cathode, and H1 on it. Thats all.

Did some research on Langmuir and lead amalgam, but not very succesful.

On the other hand, I am sure in case of Daniel Dingle, his percentage amount of H1 atoms vs. H2 molecules must be relative high.

And what kind of electrode is he using? He uses lead-acid-batteries (as far as I know). They contain of lead and lead-oxide electrodes.

Question is, how to get Hg on a lead electrode?

And what are the healthy risks using Hg?


Regards
MagnetO

HI,
And what is the sense to produce H1? H1 is extremely little molecule and more volatile..Lyne start from H2 in a closed circuit instead you start reaction from water using a engine and as you know you don't obtain H2/O2 separately from water.. Used water directly isn't good for an standard metallic engine and some problems are generated inside.

[sucahyo]

done . Keep sharing Tutanka . Creating an engine is no small feat.

Some idea for your water processor is how about utilizing orgone accumulator (like mentioned in other thread) and some air turbulance inside it (Viktor schauberger way)?

There are document about orgone accumulator with perforated baffle inside can increase air explosiveness in an ICE. And there are application to made turbulance in throttle body that can increase engine hp (gadgetman groove).

[Aaron]

Thanks Alex!

Thanks Tutanka!

I copy and pasted all your posts from the Stanley Meyer Explained thread
into a document. EVERY post. It is 97 pages long and I'm talking about
ONLY your posts!

Anyway, I hope to see others in this thread paraphrasing your concepts
to validate their/my understanding of what you're saying and then some
experiments.

You've been generous with your sharing and I wish I would have seen
your posts since last March! lol

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, I'd recommend anyone that is interested in this to do the same
and take a second or third look at what Alex is saying. Copy his posts
and look at the consistent thread of logic he is saying.

There are diagrams, concepts, etc... shouldn't be too hard for anyone
to make a simple block diagram with the sequence of events and the
parts to do it.

If anyone wants to discuss other ideas about ionization, feel free to start
a new thread. The purpose of this one is really to focus on the very
specific methodology that Alex is involved with.

[tutanka]

Tutanka,

I am NOT trying to prevent you from sharing your views in H2OPower's
Meyer thread.

You said you have nda so can't do your own thread, that's fine. This is
my thread and I'm dedicating it to what you mentioned in the last few
days. It struck a chord with me because you're mentioning things that
agree with much of what I've gathered without having a background
in the chemistry.

Again - there isn't anything discussed here that you haven't mentioned
in the Stanley Meyer Explained thread so obviously all your help there
you have chosen to place in the public domain.

I've considered ozone and nos from nitrogen since it is what makes up
most of the air for many years but I don't have the means to test most
of what I want to do so I have to stick to simple experiments. I've
considered opposite charges of air and water like air and gasoline can be
oppositely magnetically charged for a little gain in having a more
homogeneous mixture. But of course electrical opposites for the
parts of the fuel.

Also, it is 339am and for the first time yesterday, I found that you have
been posting about this in the Stan Meyer's thread since March of last
year. lol

I apologize for asking questions about things you have already answered
multiple times. I'm up so late because I just read through the entire
Stan Meyer thread to see what you have been posting - your posts
are all new to me! Anyway, you're speaking my language and I have to
thank you big time because you're putting into words a lot of the concepts
that I have been trying to verbalize but hard without chemistry background.

Anyway, I just spent HOURS pouring through your posts in that thread.

I don't have the background to design a custom engine and am hoping
to see this technology applied to an off the shelf generator. Do you think
that is a waste of time or do you think a 5kw generator could generate
enough from water to supply a few kw's?

If a custom engine is needed to make it practical, then there isn't much
hope for the experimenters because not everyone can machine out an
engine.

Your perspective vibes with me. It's 4am and I have to sleep and let it
gel in my mind but a summary shouldn't be very lengthy to summarize
the basic principles of what you have shared that I think just plain makes
sense.

I learned a lot from the other threads and have done a lot of tests in the
past but you gave me some clarity to see the final touches.