Ionization & Water Fuel

[tutanka]

[vrand]

Thanks . Lol, that article is what I was trying to find yesterday.

I found this instead:


It seems silent discharge mentioned in 100 years old book is the corona produced by sharp point not the arc. However, my experiment show that whenever corona starting to appear, it produce loud noise. I can make video because the spark jam my keyboard....


I notice flaw in his chemistry at the first post of his theory thread. He won't answer my question about it, I don't think I will answer that. It is about how he calculate energy of water in and water out.

In here we talk more about water+ambient air in and something else out before combustion chamber.

Yeah, corona discharge needs to be enclosed in a Faraday cage or better yet inside a solid steel enclosure, so as to eliminate static electrical discharges in open air that effects video/tv monitors.

This study shows that high temperature feed gases lowers the voltage to achieve corona discharge. Their corona reactor is also made of stainless steel tube.

"A high-temperature pulsed corona plasma system
for fuel gas cleaning"
http://yp.chem.tue.nl/pdfs/2885.pdf

Still, corona discharges requires +60kv (80kv was found to be better) and high amperage current.

Regards, Mike R.

[chasson321]

last edit...

[sebosfato]

[tutanka]

Guys may i tell you something

in the combustion chamber the mentioned 7,4ul of water meyer told us he was injecting totalise not even 4% of the cylinders how much of this hydrogen could be lost in the cylinder ??? i don't think to much... i have a friend witch ran his bike with a series cell... on h2 and it ran ok he said that adding charged air to the intake gave him a 30% better performance..

i have a racket for killing flys that uses only 2 1,5 v batteries and create a very nice odor of ozone.. . even with no visible discharge... there might be 2,5kv

[sucahyo]

i talked to a doc in physics and he asked me about the energy, where might if come from???

Magnets creates very huge force "witch is not consumed in an electronic circuit..."

And I think because it is not electric it only help as catalyst not as reactant.

Magnet in fuel line help burn the fuel better, it surely help water dissociation or others.

Meyer didn't reused the water, he stated this... the water should be reenergized, he showed the energy reside in the water and that energy actually come from the sun

He did mention clearly of "water reuse" in the news (click for bigger images):


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

If you buy one book on QM, this is a good choice.

Is there a newbie glossary book too?

[tutanka]

I think everyone should read this:


Tim

Tim,
Inform your leader that this reaction isn't right.. 6H2O + 2N2 = 4NH3 + 3O2

[tutanka]

Boyce and Archieblue both use Electrolyte. I though that Electrolyte would keep the reaction from working properly?

NO! You don't need any electrolyte, that change in part final reaction

[sebosfato]

quantrev

quantrev

Wave-Particle Duality

[tutanka]

I looked through about 75% of the book that Schpankme posted
last night - very simple straight forward explanations - even nh3 reference
from just nitrogen + hydrogen + silent electric discharge

page 26 - [I]"With Nitrogen* Donkin has shown that when a
mixture of hydrogen and nitrogen is subjected to the
silent electric discharge, a partial union of the two gases
takes place, with the formation of ammonia :
N2 + 3H2 = 2NH3 .

Aaron,
I don't uderstand why you continue to mentioned hydrogen/nitrogen when you have water/nitrogen.. the reactions are completely differents.. Regards

[sucahyo]

Meyer said

" and the water de-energized will go to the atmosphere and be again energized by the incoming sun rays...

From Meyer news:

The by-product of the WFC Water Fuel Injection process is water mist. Thus water mist goes back into the environment, and is reenergized by the sunlight (photon energy absorption). Then it can be caught again as rain water and recycled trough the engine. This can be done as either an open or closed loop system.

I translate it as Meyer use a glass box exposed to sunlight to condense the water for recirculation.

Corona discharge produces Ozone but do you think that it also produces Positive Nitrogen Ions?

It would produce nitrogen ion, not sure about polarity.

A mixture of ozone and oxygen may be obtained by subjecting pure oxygen to the influence of the silent discharge. Nitrogen must be absent, since the conditions which favour the production of ozone lead also to the formation of oxides of nitrogen. The gas must not be brought into contact either with rubber or with mercury, both of which are attacked by ozone. The gas does not, however, act upon paraffin, and stopcocks may be lubricated with metaphosphoric acid.

[sebosfato]

Guys may i tell you something

in the combustion chamber the mentioned 7,4ul of water meyer told us he was injecting totalise not even 4% of the cylinders how much of this hydrogen could be lost in the cylinder ??? i don't think to much... i have a friend witch ran his bike with a series cell... on h2 and it ran ok he said that adding charged air to the intake gave him a 30% better performance..

i have a racket for killing flys that uses only 2 1,5 v batteries and create a very nice odor of ozone.. . even with no visible discharge... there might be 2,5kv

[Oneminde]

Guy's look at what Aaron wrote then look at this tread ...

"Every time someone is about to nail it and I mention that
it is about to be nailed, it is like a distraction comes from the collective to
get everyone close off on some other direction. Actually, I think that is
more true than most would believe."

Yes, that is probably more true then moste want to know. It is actually scary to see how close some of the members here are and just fly by not noticing that they actually did see the solution, makes one think if there is a retarded gen jumping the tread. And yes, my post should - SHOULD - nail it for most of you now. I was wrong when I said "the coin should fall into place soon" sometime ago.. I withdraw that statement now.

[Aaron]

nh3

You need electron reduction - that is the first half of the reaction. You need to replace the valance electrons with certain atoms....

Com on you guy's - is there no one that actually see all of this by now????

This point might set a world's record for the most blatant hints on one
single point. I hope nobody feels games are being played because there are
so many straight up honest hints as to this one single piece and it keeps
flying right on by. Every time someone is about to nail it and I mention that
it is about to be nailed, it is like a distraction comes from the collective to
get everyone close off on some other direction. Actually, I think that is
more true than most would believe.

Just to let everyone know, anyone that knows this one point based on a
successful school-of-thought, pretty much had to figure it out themselves.

Others WAY before Meyer figured it out, others shortly before and around
the same time Meyer did figured it out and others in a more recent times
figured it out.

Anyway, the post I'm replying to here just spelled it out a little too clearly,
to my surprise. lol

[Aaron]

analyze the old references

I think everyone should read this

You may ignore this as you have with my other points, but I'll give you and
H2OPower the benefit of the doubt for the second, third or fourth time...

Between the both of you, analyze the nearly 100 year old references that I
posted in this thread showing the production of NH3 from high voltage,
air and water. Each study referenced accomplishes NH3 production, literally
on demand in relatively low temperature and low pressure and each study
does it in a slightly different way. It's all there in the books, you cannot
dispute it.

According to your analysis, none of those results are possible and your
analysis does not take into account other energy releasing mechanisms
giving further evidence of a misunderstanding of the entire process.

It is as if you think nitrogen goes Ninja style through an ionizer untouched
and unnoticed by high voltage and/or photon energy and/or magnetic
fields and slips through as a fairly non-reactive N2. There is something
not just wrong with that perspective, but astoundingly wrong.

The process described here is perhaps cousins with that old science and
is not the exact same process, but certainly is related to the basic
aspects of the system. Water, air, HV, etc...

Take one reference at a time, analyze it and post the analysis. That way,
we can all see first of all the real chemistry knowledge of you/h2opower
and in addition to that, it will show the level of sincerity and authenticity.
Don't lump all the references under one analysis either. Give an analysis
of each one, if you're able.

If all of that is automatically discounted as being irrelevant, flawed, etc...
then all I can say is that any further posts from you in this thread will
simply be deleted because it will be obvious that you are not interested in
a two-way conversation and are simply pushing your anti-nitrogen
propaganda. And don't try to claim censorship as many wishful thinkers
like to claim because it won't be true. You have a chance to address the
valid points that are posted in this thread and 100% of the time so far,
you and h2opower ignored them. Last chance to demonstrate honesty, Tim.

Also not interested in seeing it pointed out that these studies aren't
producing high quantities of NH3 - the point is... obviously NH3 on
demand production is not only possible, it is practically required to happen!
Volume of nh3 production in those old tests is irrelevant - the fact that
it can and does happen IS what is relevant, truthful and real.

And while you're at it, post your analysis of something relevant like the
two Lateral Science articles on Langmuir.

---------------------

p.s. Here is one more reference that was posted by Schpankme in another
thread - you can include an analysis of this one - now it is included in this
thread so nobody can say they never saw it:

http://www.energeticforum.com/91409-post14.html - (Schpankme)

Many trying to replicate hydrogen through Electrolysis would be extremely happy utilizing the low-tech methods dating back to the civil war and described in this book:

The Chemistry and Manufacture of Hydrogen
by P. Litherland Teed
164 pages 5.5x8.5 inches [size]

Knowledge Publications
has one of the best books ever written on Hydrogen, this is the first printing of The Chemistry and Manufacture of Hydrogen since 1919! With the republication of this book and others like it we are realizing the most fundamental purpose for producing written records: the preservation and rediscovery of knowledge. - Schpankme

----------

http://www.energeticforum.com/91414-post16.html

Thanks!

Here is a pdf of the 1919 version - IT'S FREE.
http://www.archive.org/download/chem...00teedrich.pdf - (me)

----------

http://www.energeticforum.com/91504-post29.html - (me)

I looked through about 75% of the book that Schpankme posted
last night - very simple straight forward explanations - even nh3 reference
from just nitrogen + hydrogen + silent electric discharge

page 26 - "With Nitrogen* Donkin has shown that when a
mixture of hydrogen and nitrogen is subjected to the
silent electric discharge, a partial union of the two gases
takes place, with the formation of ammonia :
N2 + 3H2 = 2NH3 .

However, this reaction could in no way be regarded as
commercial, as the quantity of ammonia produced after
the gases have long been subjected to the silent electric
discharge is only just sufficient to be identified by the
most delicate means.

Recent investigations have, however, shown that if
the two gases are mixed and subjected to very great
pressure (1800 Ib. per sq. inch) in the presence of a
catalytic agent, union to an appreciable extent takes
place. This process, which is now being used on a
CHEMICAL PROPERTIES 27

commercial scale in Germany, is known as the Haber
process, but few details as to the method of operation
are available. In the earlier stages of the working of
this process the catalytic agent was probably osmium,
but it is considered doubtful if this is still being employed. "

Yes, not sufficient for commercial production - however,
super ionized nitrogen is NOT accounted for amongst a few
other parts of the full reaction - but I'm happy to see the
reference and further proof of NH3 on demand production.