Ionization & Water Fuel

[pengrove]

Sure looks like it.

- They promised 3 months ago to release some info.
- Next is he does not need the plasma spark plug,
- Next its when he get a Italian patent.
- Next is he will run a small generator set by the end of April.
- Next is waiting for the next excuse.

It looks like a simple "Browns Gas" + Air = runs engine generator on water alone!

Regards, Mike R.

The bad thing is about those sandwich HHO cells need cleaned out after two months of continuous usage. And you also have to worry about hexavalent chromium.

[vrand]

Tut, seriously, why are you here if you have NDA's or OSA's... or whatever preventing you from disclosing information. I mean, if you don't intend to tell us what you are doing, then why the games? Are you getting a kick out of watching everyone wriggle on your hook?

Farrah

Sure looks like it.

- They promised 3 months ago to release some info.
- Next is he does not need the plasma spark plug,
- Next its when he get a Italian patent.
- Next is he will run a small generator set by the end of April.
- Next is waiting for the next excuse.

It looks like a simple "Browns Gas" + Air = runs engine generator on water alone!

Regards, Mike R.

[Farrah Day]

Tut you said:

The answer is that first you have to study endothermic engines.. you can't compress hydrogen normally as gasoline, you lost that from rings of pistons, etc.. you need an carrier like nitrogen.. that is been written more times on thread.

During World War II quite a few businesses converted their vehicles to run on Hydrogen because of a petrol shortage. I don't believe the issue is with running a vehicle on H2... it's simply making enough of the stuff to do so!

HYDRAZINE HAVE KILLED STAN MEYER. NOW YOU UNDERSTAND?

Well this is a new one on me... I thought he choked, when a chipolata went down the wrong hole!

Tut, seriously, why are you here if you have NDA's or OSA's... or whatever preventing you from disclosing information. I mean, if you don't intend to tell us what you are doing, then why the games? Are you getting a kick out of watching everyone wriggle on your hook?

Farrah

[tutanka]

OK Brother, Didnt he die of a brain aneurysm or something? What do u mean by this man? I asked u about this before. I am truly baffled?

HYDRAZINE HAVE KILLED STAN MEYER. NOW YOU UNDERSTAND?

[tutanka]

OK. Serious now. If u r running an engine on active nitrogen and H20 (plain old tap water, not electrocuted in a jar etc..) and u r smelling fertilizer, u will have to adjust ur mixture until the stinky smell is gone.

But what you are writing?? TAP WATER???? Sorry but you have to study and read more on thread..

[tutanka]

Can someone please explain to me why you would want to produce Ammonia on demand? It's not particularly calorific, so how will this help run an ICE where H2 would not?

Are you wanting to produce Ammonia just to then combust it?

There's plenty of Nitrogen in the air, sure, but to produce Ammonia you're still relying on the limited availablity of H2, so I don't see how producing Ammonia helps the cause.

I'm just struggling to see any logic behind this Ammonia idea... what am I missing here?

Can someone detail the balanced reactions from how you go from air high in H2, O2, N2 to NH3.

Farrah

The answer is that first you have to study endothermic engines.. you can't compress hydrogen normally as gasoline, you lost that from rings of pistons, etc.. you need an carrier like nitrogen.. that is been written more times on thread.. Michael have written mixture generated from reaction.. you need only to think with your mind and start test.. but ATTENTION .. If you try that the mixture generated can kill you like Stan Meyer.. Regards

[Farrah Day]

Can someone please explain to me why you would want to produce Ammonia on demand? It's not particularly calorific, so how will this help run an ICE where H2 would not?

Are you wanting to produce Ammonia just to then combust it?

There's plenty of Nitrogen in the air, sure, but to produce Ammonia you're still relying on the limited availablity of H2, so I don't see how producing Ammonia helps the cause.

I'm just struggling to see any logic behind this Ammonia idea... what am I missing here?

Can someone detail the balanced reactions from how you go from air high in H2, O2, N2 to NH3.

Farrah

[tutanka]

OK. Here is a previous post by I but now edited for faster education. U got a lot of patience Tutanka. Lol.

Hello,
Sincerely I don't understand what peoples want from me.. all is written here and Michael John Nunnerley have written mixture composition. With the chemical formula you don't are able to create an working system?? Want also method used and plans?? You want produce gas or thermal energy directly?? Ask clear...

[tutanka]

All is been written!!

[bussi04]

Quote:
Originally Posted by vrand
In your Gas Processor design do you allow the formation of OZONE?

Do you have an Electron Extraction grid and circuit, to capture the free electrons, remove them from the mix, and prevent the formation of O3?

Regards, Mike R.


All depend from chemical formula used. For EEC I have been written on thread. Regards

[Aaron]

please reread posts you're replying to

Nitrogen has 7 electrons not 5 and oxygen has 8 not 6 as you can be seen in the above links.

1. How does converting NH3 from water allow energy production? I don't understand this one.
2. Since you can not burn water without converting it to something else first? What do you think the water fuel injectors or the water fuel capacitors are for?
3. Besides Meyer already mention that nitrogen is needed to slow hydrogen combustion. Meyer realize that converting hydrogen to anything else reduce the energy, but he still mention that it is required. How does it slow the burn rate of hydrogen? It does so by physically getting in the way. When the engine reaches operating temperature most of the nitrogen will be in the form of nitrogen monoxide or some other NOx gases. These gases are non flammable thus get in the way or slow down the hydrogen atoms from combining with the oxygen atoms due to physically getting in the way for the atoms to combine and produce water vapor H2O(gas).

Tim

My question was actually about a MOLECULE of nitrogen and not an
atom of nitrogen.

1 - How does it allow energy production? I'll answer that when you tell
me how hho allows for energy production.

2 - The first question in #2 to is an incomplete sentence. The second
question is irrelevant.

3 - It is h2opower's OPINION that it is simply by the volume of nitrogen
crowding out everything. The nitrogen goes through an ionizer and by
"getting in the way" is the best he can come up with? Please, get real.
Positively charged nitrogen is seeking electrons for balance, so what can
it get or share an electron with in the process?

By admitting the obvious that the nitrogen doesn't simply just get in the
way but actually acts as a natural electron attractor will destroy your
bogus arguments that the nitrogen can't bind to anything after it leaves
an ionization process in order to form NH3.

Are you really not able to see that the logic woven throughout the tapestry
of h2opower's understanding of this process is actually non-existent and
you're actually waving a strainer instead of a sheet? I don't have to
poke any holes in it because they're already there.

[sucahyo]

File:Electron shell 007 Nitrogen.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
File:Electron shell 008 Oxygen.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Nitrogen has 7 electrons not 5 and oxygen has 8 not 6 as you can be seen in the above links.

Lol, Yes, I was wrong, and I thought I was gonna fix it before anyone see it:
Test on Content Materials

There are three types of bonds:
Ionic - a loosely bound electron from one atom "transfers" a deeper orbital of another
Covalent - two electrons are "shared" between the two atoms
Metallic - crystalline structures
The orbit shells' maximum fillings (completion number) are as follows:
First shell - two electrons
Second shell - eight electrons
Third shell - eighteen electrons
The really stable compounds have a completed number of electrons in the valence shell. In other words, in looking at HCL, the valence shell gets a completed number of 8 electrons in the compound. Chlorine has 7 electrons, and hydrogen shares one - for 8 to be stable.

In water, oxygen has 6 valence electrons. The two hydrogen atoms each provide one electron to complete the valence shell of 8. The valence shell is the orbit shell most loosely bound, or the one furthest from the nucleus.

I will correct my previous post.

1. How does converting NH3 from water allow energy production? I don't understand this one.

If you inject water into unmodified engine, the water wuold not explode. If you change it into hydrogen OR NH3 it will.

2. Since you can not burn water without converting it to something else first? What do you think the water fuel injectors or the water fuel capacitors are for?

Converting water to something else.

How does it slow the burn rate of hydrogen? It does so by physically getting in the way. When the engine reaches operating temperature most of the nitrogen will be in the form of nitrogen monoxide or some other NOx gases. These gases are non flammable thus get in the way or slow down the hydrogen atoms from combining with the oxygen atoms due to physically getting in the way for the atoms to combine and produce water vapor H2O(gas).

If nitrogen atoms is between oxygen atoms and hydrogen atom, nitrogen atoms will react with hydrogen atoms to create NH3, and react with oxygen atoms to create NOx.

N2 can not be getting in the way physically because N2 have no reason to (in stable condition).

[chasson321]

last edit...

[vrand]

Mike,

I saw your post. Stefan also posted in English in that thread that there
is the smell of ammonia "even though no such chemical is in use"

There are quite a few things they can do to optimize their setup but I'm
happy to see they smell ammonia.

Aaron,
Yea, the smell of ammonia is VERY interesting. Looks like the HHO is combining with the air intake N2 and engine combustion chamber makes some NH3 and maybe other gases!

Their design is "open source" so anyone can recreate it now and don't have to wait for years until they get a patent!!

Best regards, Mike R.

[sucahyo]

If you have just atomic nitrogen, what is the point?

Atomic nitrogen and hydrogen can then enable N2 + H2 <-> NH3 equilibrium to shift.

Also, if you dissociate nitrogen into atomic nitrogen,
how long will it remain atomic until it binds to another nitrogen or something
else?

A couple of seconds with AC or DC. up to minutes with pulsed DC, according to previous reference.

How many electrons are in a molecule of nitrogen, N2?

14. Each nitrogen atom has 7 electron. Two at first orbital, 5 at second orbital as valence electron. To be stable nitrogen atom need 8 at the second layer. Each Nitrogen atom see 8 at its valence orbit because the other nitrogen shared it's three electron. When they dissociate, each will have 5 at outer (total of 7).

There is 10 in H2O. Hidrogen see two when each has one, oxygen see 8 at its outer orbital when it actually has 6 (two more at inner layer).

In other word, I think Meyer drawing for H2O is wrong.

In NH3, nitrogen see eight (at outer layer) by shared electron from three hydrogen which have one electron each.

No electron need to be added or removed during transition from water and N2 to NH3.

Changing the free hydrogen into NH3 results in no energy gain, but an energy loss.

Off course, but converting NH3 from water allow energy production. Since you can not burn water without converting it to something else first. Besides Meyer already mention that nitrogen is needed to slow hydrogen combustion. Meyer realize that converting hydrogen to anything else reduce the energy, but he still mention that it is required.

If so has anyone actually given any thought to the reaction processes involved, the balanced chemical equations for such reactions... and whether or not these reactions are even possible?

Reaction is possible, Aaron already post many reference to support that. However, reaction process involved is hard for me to write because I am too unknowledgeable for that.