Water Sparkplug

[gotoluc]

Hi all,

I have posted another video showing a closeup of my plug firing. The setup is the original (diode) Gotoluc - Peter Lindemann as my original video. My digital camera does not have a manual focus so I had to illuminate the scene slightly so it would stay focused (auto focus-yuck!). I'm sure it would have been more dramatic in the dark.

You can actually see an occasional finger of flame emanating from the plug in the last half of the video. The plug remained COLD of course.

The link is:
YouTube - water on fire

Enjoy. Peace,

Greg

Excellent video and results Greg.

Which diodes are you using and how many?

Luc

[Chet]

In diesel engines yes they inject fuel slightly before TDC, it’s the combination of the increase pressure (compression stroke) coupled with the glow plug firing that causes the detonation. Rip

Good day all .... Just to clear up the thought process here. I am mechanic and have very little electronic's knowledge. I do know engines though.
The diesel fuel injection pump sends the fuel timed to the combustion timing per cylinder ( just like the distributor of a gas engine sends the spark) The timing is BTDC(Dodge Cummin's 9.5-16 degree BTDC)and it is the temp (caused by the higher compression ratio's of the diesel engine) which causes the detonation of the fuel. The glow plugs(Ford + Chev) or heating element(Dodge Cummin's engines) are only used for starting purposes until the engine fires and warms to a determined temp. Diesel engines generally will not start without a starting aid, be it some sort of heating element or a combustible spray(Starting Fluid).
Namaste ...... Chet

[gmeast]

one diode

Excellent video and results Greg.

Which diodes are you using and how many?

Luc

Hi and thanks! If you look at my same post I edited it and added some captures from the vid.

The diode is an NTE517. 15kv, 200 amp surge microwave replacement diode.

Greg

[tstorey]

Thanks Chet,

Engine experience is welcome here!

Give a look around and always feel free to post a thought.

This is a group effort.

T

[rip]

Good day all .... Just to clear up the thought process here. I am mechanic and have very little electronic's knowledge. I do know engines though.
The diesel fuel injection pump sends the fuel timed to the combustion timing per cylinder ( just like the distributor of a gas engine sends the spark) The timing is BTDC(Dodge Cummin's 9.5-16 degree BTDC)and it is the temp (caused by the higher compression ratio's of the diesel engine) which causes the detonation of the fuel. The glow plugs(Ford + Chev) or heating element(Dodge Cummin's engines) are only used for starting purposes until the engine fires and warms to a determined temp. Diesel engines generally will not start without a starting aid, be it some sort of heating element or a combustible spray(Starting Fluid).
Namaste ...... Chet

Thanks Chet, that helps. Is there equipment out there that can measure pressure as a function of time? Of course the time delta would be quite small but if we could gain some sense of the time duration that the pressure is acting (comparing both water and diesel fuel) then a diesel application would be a better choice to begin experimenting.

somthing like this:
Engine Combustion Network

[Jetijs]

Luc,
about the diode string. In the past days I had trouble with the intensified spark. With no diodes attached I could open the spark gap up to 20mm and more and there always was a long spark, but when I attached the 6 diode string, there was no sparks at all but I could see a small spark through the contacts of my switch that is used to connect and disconnect the the diode string to the circuit. That means that the HV discharged through the diode string rather than through the spark gap. This does not happen when a small spark gap is used (around 1mm). As the gap goes bigger, more voltage is required for the spark to jump, that means that also there will be more voltage hitting the diodes and if you will not have enough diodes in the string, the HV will discharge through them. So I made an experiment. At first I set the spark gap to 1mm. I made some ordinary sparks across the gap and then I attached the 6 diode string. The intensified spark appeared. Next I increased the spark gap to about 4mm. Again, the circuit without diodes had no problems to make the HV spark to jump across the gap. But when I attached those 6 diodes, there was no spark at all, bu I could hear that the coil is actually pulsing. So I replaced the string of 6 diodes with a string of 16 diodes. When I did that, the intensified spark had no problems to jump the gap. So this means that the greater your gap is, the more diodes you need in the diode string. The weird part is that when there was no sparks with the 6 diode array, it was obvious that the HV discharged through the diodes, but after that I could still use those diodes at smaller gaps. Weren't they supposed to be burned out? My meter says that they are ok

Here's a video
YouTube - diode voltage and spark gap relation

[Jetijs]

Jetijs may I ask you a question? What is value of resistor that connected with SSR ouput pin. I have a SSR 40A 240 VAC HSF15. Is it same type of yours? Why don't we use SSR to discharge cap directly instead of SCR?

Hi rmitoday,
Both resistors on that diagram are 1k. But you can use even 4k or more on the SSR output pin, or you can even leave that resistor out at all, the circuit will still work fine. My SSR is rated 250VDC 60A and using such a SSR for only turning ON the SCR is like shooting flies with a cannon It's just that at the moment I do not have anything else to do this.
Using SCR is better because it dumps all the energy from the caps into the primary of the induction coil and after that it automatically shuts OFF. This ensures that all the energy is released from the caps. You could also use SSR, but then you had to adjust the ON time correctly for maximum efficiency, because if you shut the SSR off too soon, there will still be a charge left in the cap. And if you shut it off too late, you will waste energy that could be used in charging the caps, because now it would just go through the primary of the induction coil and not create any sparks. Also I don't think that SSR's are fast enough for our purposes, at least the SSR's that we have

[gmeast]

hydrogen-oxygen flame

Hi all,

I thought I would re-post these video captures as a separate post. The captures were taken from a video I posted to YouTube called "water on fire". You can actually see a flame in one of the pictures. It surprised the heck out of me!

Again these caps are from my replication of Peter Lindemann's circuit of Gotoluc's original observations.

Enjoy, and peace,

Greg

[Tecstatic]

Engine document on yahoo evgrey

Just in case you have not seen it already, the Yahoo EVGREY group has this interesting file:

Hurricane_Engines_LR_aircar_watercar.pdf
water diesel concepts

Worth reading reading in relation to this thread.

Eric

[Aaron]

powering secondary

Kinetix,

Here is the power supplying the 2nd booster cap powered off the same supply. I do not know if this will fry inverters, etc... I used a 5A variac and had no problems.

My preference now, just in case anything blows up, is to use a separate power supply on the backend.

[Aaron]

diodes

I've been using a string of 15 diodes and each one is 1000v 6A and I have had no trouble even when being very abusive to them with 400-500v @ 330uf dumps or 1000v dumps around 15-20uf. They hold up well...at least with relay speeds.

[gotoluc]

Luc,
about the diode string. In the past days I had trouble with the intensified spark. With no diodes attached I could open the spark gap up to 20mm and more and there always was a long spark, but when I attached the 6 diode string, there was no sparks at all but I could see a small spark through the contacts of my switch that is used to connect and disconnect the the diode string to the circuit. That means that the HV discharged through the diode string rather than through the spark gap. This does not happen when a small spark gap is used (around 1mm). As the gap goes bigger, more voltage is required for the spark to jump, that means that also there will be more voltage hitting the diodes and if you will not have enough diodes in the string, the HV will discharge through them. So I made an experiment. At first I set the spark gap to 1mm. I made some ordinary sparks across the gap and then I attached the 6 diode string. The intensified spark appeared. Next I increased the spark gap to about 4mm. Again, the circuit without diodes had no problems to make the HV spark to jump across the gap. But when I attached those 6 diodes, there was no spark at all, bu I could hear that the coil is actually pulsing. So I replaced the string of 6 diodes with a string of 16 diodes. When I did that, the intensified spark had no problems to jump the gap. So this means that the greater your gap is, the more diodes you need in the diode string. The weird part is that when there was no sparks with the 6 diode array, it was obvious that the HV discharged through the diodes, but after that I could still use those diodes at smaller gaps. Weren't they supposed to be burned out? My meter says that they are ok

Here's a video
YouTube - diode voltage and spark gap relation

Hi Jetijs,
thanks for bringing this to my attention and mostly for doing a video demo . In my test I was always doing it with the same spark gap, which is the plug with the J electrode cut off. It's about the maximum gap a standard spark plug could have unless you started cutting around the tread. Anyways, the gap of my plug is just under 3mm.

It is difficult to explain the difference from my test to yours, so I also did a video to explain my finding. I think Diode quantity can vary depending on plug gap, cap size and charged voltage. All I was trying to do is bring awareness to replicators that diodes can have an efficiency effect on the circuit. I would recommend to everyone to test to find what works best for their own application.

I can get the intense spark to happen with the 16 diode string with the 22uf cap but it needs to be charged to 146vdc = .234 Joule compare to 22uf at 120vdc = .158 Joule with 6 diodes and both give the same spark quality.

I have used this new 6 diode string with the 1.9uf cap bank charged to well over 1000vdc and they are still working fine as you can see in this demo video. I'll let you all know if and when they fail.

Thank you once again Jetijs for sharing your findings since it shows to others that different combinations will give different results. So we need to test and find what works best for our own application or circuit.

Video: YouTube - Diode Only test

Luc

[peteroks]

hi arron and all can i ask why a reed switch even a hv type is the choice for firing the plug,the specs on those switches clearly say outside magnetic situations are Not suitable for them,with that comment i know of no other alternative Yet ---------- peter

[Aaron]

magnetic switch

Hi Peter,

That switch works great even up to a few hundred hz from what I've heard

I don't know why they say outside magnetic switching isn't good.

All the magnetic switches for security alarms, etc... are using external magnets and they work fine. Of course nobody is going to open and close a door or window 50 times a second or more and if they did, that would really be something to see!

Anyway, these little reed relays work fine with the external magnets. If the concern is with too much magnetic strength or something, simply mount the switch further away.

So far, it has worked perfect on the lawnmower.

[Gibs]

First post

Hi everyone.

First, I want to congratulate you guys, you're doing a great job !
There's a bunch of passionate scientific around here and it's great to read your posts everyday. I really enjoy this thread and it seems like I know you for a month or so and I am happy with this.

Sorry if my english is not the best (I normaly speak/write french), but I'll do my best to be understandable. So, do not hesitate to correct me if I'm wrong.
Learning is adding more tools in the box.


Yet, I recreated the effect only by using a MOT and condenser(s) alone.

Will try this on a 2 stroke 1000W gen. At 3600 rated rpm that means 60 rotations a second, so one complete sine per rotation. That provides a well synchronized source of firing/recharging.

Can't wait to get a camera to share findings.

Together we stand and we will success.

Gibs