Water Sparkplug

[gmeast]

rosco1 - one more question:

Hi rosco1,

I'm not sure I am familiar with plugs spec (being built). I have no way of monitoring emissions, though the Bug sure stinks less since I started this research. Can you/have you fiddled with the timing much and if so do you have any conclusions re that specifically?

As far as the Kiker? wires go the resonant quasi-multi pulses they claim to deliver should be a benefit. Maybe tweaking the timing with those wires could add some benefit (???)

"...in fact I posted up a series of tests related to spark plug indexing..."
Can you refer me to that /those post(s) pls?

... Pretty fundamental mods for the gains wouldn't you say? Exciting!

Thanks,

Greg

H rosco1,

I forgot to ask if you have had a chance to make any visual observations with your set-up/configuration under pressure.

Thanks,

Greg

[gmeast]

timing

Yes Greg, I'm well aware of the lower combustion chamber temperatures apparent with the faster burn rates delivered by these ignition upgrades, in fact I posted up a series of tests related to spark plug indexing in comparison to using the Brisk Premium LGS HOR15LGS plug.

Those tests alluded to a temp drop of 150-200 degrees just by using a standard HEI ignition, standard leads and the Brisks. Economy and power increase was significant, emissions dropped markedly as well, but alas we choose to press forward don't we.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I feel one of us might nail it soon.

Regards,
Ross.

Hi rosco1,

I'm not sure I am familiar with plugs spec (being built). I have no way of monitoring emissions, though the Bug sure stinks less since I started this research. Can you/have you fiddled with the timing much and if so do you have any conclusions re that specifically?

As far as the Kiker? wires go the resonant quasi-multi pulses they claim to deliver should be a benefit. Maybe tweaking the timing with those wires could add some benefit (???)

"...in fact I posted up a series of tests related to spark plug indexing..."
Can you refer me to that /those post(s) pls?

... Pretty fundamental mods for the gains wouldn't you say? Exciting!

Thanks,

Greg

[ashtweth]

Plenty of room there for a GEET at the back on Gregs , thought that was a GEET pipe at first glance, imagine that with Robins plugs..

[rosco1]

Heat transfer

Yes Greg, I'm well aware of the lower combustion chamber temperatures apparent with the faster burn rates delivered by these ignition upgrades, in fact I posted up a series of tests related to spark plug indexing in comparison to using the Brisk Premium LGS HOR15LGS plug.

Those tests alluded to a temp drop of 150-200 degrees just by using a standard HEI ignition, standard leads and the Brisks. Economy and power increase was significant, emissions dropped markedly as well, but alas we choose to press forward don't we.

I'm currently running that same set up in a different engine now, yet with the inclusion of the Kiker Wires, which again significantly increased performance and again lowered emissions some more, yet I can't really attest to them having increased the economy though as by virtue of having all this extra grunt underfoot, it does tend to encourage one to drive rather more aggressively, thus negating the probable increase.

I think you already know the specifications of the plugs currently being constructed for me.

My intention is to further augment the combustion process initially with water and methanol, delivered by an Edelbrock Vara Jection unit.

I'm also thinking of somehow restricting the water flow to the cylinder head by way of a modified head gasket, in order to get the temperatures back up to where they usually ran with a standard ignition system. I feel these lower temperatures are an area that needs to be examined and perhaps exploited for they may yield something more.

I may initially opt for a higher temperature thermostat to tide me over until I make a decision either way. I do note that the engine is about as smooth as one could possibly hope for, yet it seems to be audibly noisier when cold. (Rattles)

This weekend will see the inclusion of the long awaited new headers, as well as a Holley pattern 2 bbl manifold, which has had the plenum area increased to about double it's standard volume, and atop that is a 34 ADM Weber.
Along with all that, the Crane Cams HI 6 and PS 91 coil will be added, along with the water/meth unit. The reason I'm going to these lengths is that I feel the engine is now undercarbed(single bbl) and being somewhat restricted in it's potential.

I'm certainly happy with what I've achieved so far, and ordinarily I wouldn't want to go changing anything, and while it's apparent that the combo currently in use is doing a great job, I just can't help but go forward. Some long held theories/ideas suggest to me that we're getting closer to making a breakthrough.

I feel one of us might nail it soon.

Regards,
Ross.

[gmeast]

lower power plasma

Overpowering these types of plugs really only wastes them and they're too precious to waste by being overzealous.

Let the compression ratio do the work of morphing the lesser powered spark into the plasma.

I'm not sure what compression ratio that bug of yours is running on, but you only need to be making enough ignition power to allow the morph into plasma at about 10-20 psi below what your actual highest running compression ratio is.

We simply don't need to be able to create plasma in open air firings, there's no real point in being able to do so.

By adopting this low powered approach, the power levels at the plug can be kept to a minimum, thus keeping them alive longer, besides that, we're verily tapping free power by doing it this way as the piston is going up and down anyway, and this approach doesn't add to it's burdon at all.

Hi rosco1,

Thanks. Yeah, when I added these plugs, also the beryllium-copper versions, I noticed only the slightest difference between plasma circuit "on" and plasma circuit "off" at cold run/idle. It was no contest between either of these and the regular non resistor plugs ... the engine would not even idle on standard non resistor plugs without the VexUs circuit.

The Bug's CR is only around 7 1/2 or 8. It is interesting to note that in my case, having a normally aspirated carburetor, the addition of the steam acts as an inert gas and displaces some of the total intake volume. Unfortunately for me this enriches the fuel to air ratio (fuel to oxygen ratio) so I must jet about 1/2 down just to get the ratio closer to stock. However, someone from one of these forums pointed out that systems with fuel injection and a computer would sense the oxygen level and make the appropriate adjustment automatically ... I like that.

The reason I'm adding steam is not really to try and burn water (actually). I'm trying to 'shift' the thermo cycle of the ICE and achieve a transfer of combustion heat to the steam (which is dense and already phase changed) and develop the driving pressures at lower temperatures. I have no doubt that the plasma/water effect is important for ignition at these conditions. If successful this should result in lower operating temperatures and less heat rejected to the environment - more power to the wheels. This is where I went from 31.5 (factory figures) MPG to 36.5 MPG and now to 40.5 MPG. I actually never got any more than 25 MPG from the bug before all of this ... and I kept it as well tune as anyone could.

Sorry for the long-winded reply,

Greg

[rosco1]

Good stuff Greg!

Overpowering these types of plugs really only wastes them and they're too precious to waste by being overzealous.

Let the compression ratio do the work of morphing the lesser powered spark into the plasma.

I'm not sure what compression ratio that bug of yours is running on, but you only need to be making enough ignition power to allow the morph into plasma at about 10-20 psi below what your actual highest running compression ratio is.

We simply don't need to be able to create plasma in open air firings, there's no real point in being able to do so.

By adopting this low powered approach, the power levels at the plug can be kept to a minimum, thus keeping them alive longer, besides that, we're verily tapping free power by doing it this way as the piston is going up and down anyway, and this approach doesn't add to it's burdon at all.

[gmeast]

Firestorm

Hi Luc and all,

I believe this post still belongs here. The effect is still plasma I think but only observable under pressure.

I have made an important change to the air filter ... a new one ... yeah. Why it took so long to do this I don't know. Now there is no labyrinth for the steam that might induce condensation. Now it's just straight in. It's still legal ... see the breather in to the other side?

The VexUs plasma circuit is completely removed. I am running my Nickel Firestorm Spark Plug replicas by Robin David ...ONLY. At present I still only have my single metered water drip onto a 3 inch long segment of the exhaust manifold (before the muffler).

I have a set of pictures for you:
-first picture is overall of the new filter and old duct


-second picture is of the steam rising from convection & just plain wafting up the duct and condensing on the mirror. NOTE: ... the weather was dry and warm at the time of the picture


-third picture is of one of the nickel Firestorm plugs


-fourth picture is of a nickel Firestorm plug firing at atmospheric pressure ... enemic


-fifth picture is of the same nickel Firestorm plug firing under 125 psi pressure ... WOW ... a plasma spark!

[gotoluc]

use a gas processor first then the water spark plug!
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...r-circuit.html

Hi TRON,

thanks for posting your interesting comment and link

Can you provide us with a link to a video demonstration of the circuit you are suggesting?

Thanks for sharing

Luc

[TRON]

use a gas processor first then the water spark plug!

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/3860-stans-gas-processor-circuit.html

[gotoluc]

Update on my 1988 Dodge Raider with weber Carb with no electronic controls. I am running kiker wires and ball sparkplugs and two sizes jet smaller in carb. This is with stock ignition with a msd coil. Fuel burn went from 15 to 23 mpg. Kiker wires didn't help any over the regular wires. I then changed my timing to tdc but when I tried to drive the car I had such a reduction in power that I changed it right back. I then put in my hydroxy generator putting out 1 lpm Hydroxy and checked the mileage and got no change, still 23 mpg??? I couldn't believe it. I guess I need to put in water mist or steam next. I know in my heart that water will work as fuel with the right fog, mist, steam whatever and the right ignition and timing or lightning bolt. I just haven't found it yet. God knows and when the time is right maybe he will give us this knowledge. Keep on working guys Keep on keeping on Bob E.

Thanks for the update Bob.

From Greg's positive results I think steam is what you want to use.

Let us know how it works out for you.

Luc

[xbox hacker]

Your the man Luc.... That is the vid i was looking for

[Robert E.]

Water injection

Hi Bob,

I would try to bring the timing closer to TDC or at TDC if it performs well there. The main reason timing is advanced on cars is the fuel energy is delayed from the spark. However the plasma spark maybe faster at converting the fuel energy so one should definitely be testing different timing positions and bring it all the way to TDC if it gives best economy. Leaving it stock you may not see any benefits while using the plasma spark or even losses as it will somewhat stall the piston movement if the fuel energy is before TDC.

You may also need to lock the timing advance mechanism.

Let us know of your result once you change things.

Luc

Update on my 1988 Dodge Raider with weber Carb with no electronic controls. I am running kiker wires and ball sparkplugs and two sizes jet smaller in carb. This is with stock ignition with a msd coil. Fuel burn went from 15 to 23 mpg. Kiker wires didn't help any over the regular wires. I then changed my timing to tdc but when I tried to drive the car I had such a reduction in power that I changed it right back. I then put in my hydroxy generator putting out 1 lpm Hydroxy and checked the mileage and got no change, still 23 mpg??? I couldn't believe it. I guess I need to put in water mist or steam next. I know in my heart that water will work as fuel with the right fog, mist, steam whatever and the right ignition and timing or lightning bolt. I just haven't found it yet. God knows and when the time is right maybe he will give us this knowledge. Keep on working guys Keep on keeping on Bob E.

[gotoluc]

Thank you for looking gmeast...but that is not what i was looking for.

The vid i am talking about has the engine on the bench and he is basically truing the flywheel with one plasma spark. Just demo that the plasma can move the piston.

Hi xbox hacker,

maybe it's these by OU user callanan:

Video No.1: YouTube - Plasma Water Engine Proof Of Concept Setup


Video No.2: YouTube - Plasma Water Engine Proof Of Concept Demo

OU Post: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE

Luc

[xbox hacker]

Thank you for looking gmeast...but that is not what i was looking for.

The vid i am talking about has the engine on the bench and he is basically truing the flywheel with one plasma spark. Just demo that the plasma can move the piston.

[gmeast]

plasma spark turns engine

A while ago someone (i think Aaron) made a youtube movie where he used a weed eater engine and moved the piston with a plasma spark.

Does anyone have a link to it? I can not seem to reference it on youtube. I recall youtube was giving Aaron a hard time, and he moved his stuff.

Thanx!!

Here ya go:

It was 'djzissis'.

YouTube - Plasma turning engine -

Greg