Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect

[Allen Burgess]

Test results.

@qvision,

Quote from qvision's output coil test:

"I have just had my first result where the RPM goes up and the current draw goes down".


BEMF accounts for this effect in the power coil, but we need a different theory to explain where the power originates from with your new results. Hence, the output coil core demagnetization source begins to appear as a possibility.


Very exciting results. I'm back at shop from holiday in Asia. I'll go back to work on my nested generator soon. I am clear about the nature of my new string of tests. Hope to upload some new videos soon.

[qvision]

Sidney i read that brushless 'outrunner' motors are even better for that :

brushless outrunner | eBay

Also, read my thread starting here, i am DeepCut on this forum :

DELAYING LENZ LAW ...

[Sydney]

After a bit of investigation for an existing ready-made motor design to test this with, it seems as if a stepper motor is a really good candidate for a delayed lenz generator because the poles are so close together that it most likely will not require much lenz delay to go into 'push' mode.

[qvision]

Hi AB

I have been recording results all the way from min to max RPM.

I have had a few spots where RPM goes up while current draw stays the same, and i have just had my first result where the RPM goes up and the current draw goes down

I have yet to try this coil with the diametric magnet, current setup is a VHS rotor with 8 little magnets on the outside, as in the geometry of the Adams motor.

My camera battery is charging

[Allen Burgess]

@qvision,

Your output coil coupled with, "steady state, and minimum current draw" of your single power coil and diametric spinner, should yield some interesting results.

Any chance you can upload a video of you latest success?

[qvision]

Finally i've got the effect !

After days of testing ... here is my first result, thanks to Romero for advising the single coil/many RPM test


Speed Under Load Test.


COIL :

24 SWG (0.56mm, 23 AWG is closest at 0.573mm)

L = 53 mH
R = 60 Ohms

55mm long and 37mm wide.

Coil former barrel diameter is 15mm.

Unsure of number of turns since shop bought.


ROTOR :

VHS motor.

Diameter : 60mm


MAGNETS :

8 x 10mm diameter x 5mm height disc magnets, grade N42.
Magnets arranged N/S.


DRIVE CIRCUITRY :

Standard SSG drive circuit with charging diode removed.


RESULTS :

At 1100 RPM, shorting the coil increased the RPM to 1290

The input current went up from 115 mA to 120 mA

I will now do more testing and post results

[toranarod]

I am not set up to do any testing at this stage which is why I posed it as a question based on the theory of why it works.

Calculation of the Delayed Lenz Effect - YouTube

If you calculate the time it takes for a armature pole to move past a stator pole based on armature circumference and rpm, you should be able to calculate the required series inductance to add to each generator winding to phase shift the lenz field to where you want it.

I have also just asked the person who made that video if he is willing to test the external inductor theory. Lets see what happens.

are you an Aussie

[toranarod]

There is a 90 degree phase shift every time you charge and discharge a coil.

The only problem with the coil is it also has resistance.
keep the phase shift at 90 degrees. the only way to do that is inductance high and resistance low.
and time shift as slow as possible. T = XL/R. RPM fast as possible. The longer the time moves forward the more L and R move into phase. YES.

just look at you capacitor time constant when a capacitor is full charged the light goes out. if you are charging it through a globe or LED.

do the same thing with a coil and the longer you charge it the brighter the globe gets until the only thing left is R and your coil is just a resistor.

there is only inductance(Z) while there is motion they only draw current by impedance while the voltage is in a state of flux. after that it returns to resistance. and a capacitor goes open circuit

the closer you are to the point of switch the closer you are to maximum phase of 90 degrees. just look at the graph in the video. this why we get better results with high rpm and a very low load

Calculation of the Delayed Lenz Effect - YouTube

[qvision]

@ Sydney, what an elegantly simple idea

[Sydney]

I am not set up to do any testing at this stage which is why I posed it as a question based on the theory of why it works.

Calculation of the Delayed Lenz Effect - YouTube

If you calculate the time it takes for a armature pole to move past a stator pole based on armature circumference and rpm, you should be able to calculate the required series inductance to add to each generator winding to phase shift the lenz field to where you want it.

I have also just asked the person who made that video if he is willing to test the external inductor theory. Lets see what happens.

[Allen Burgess]

Bemf

@qvision,

"The answer is not frequency, or duty cycle, or inductive reactance, it's even more basic than that, it's the developed back EMF which is proportional to rotor velocity, so while the speed is below the steady state speed, the EMF is below the supply voltage and a difference of potential exists that drives current through the windings during the ON time of the pulses. This current is I = (V - EMF) / R, where R is the resistance of the coils. So if current flows, torque is created, and this torque accelerates the rotor and brings it up to a higher velocity which has a higher EMF, which in turn draws an even lower amount of current, and so on, exponentially approaching steady state, and minimum current draw, when the rotor is not under load. However, if you place it under mechanical loading, than the velocity will drop to a level that allows current to flow from the battery into the motor to produces a torque that balances the mechanical loading placed on it. This is basic motor theory, everyone should know it, especially on this forum!"

That helps clear alot up for me, thanks. Now on to the output coil!

[Shadesz]

Hello from Australia. My understanding of the delayed lenz effect is that the output current is out of phase with the the magnetic flux that created it therefore the lenz law flux can be timed to coincide with the departure of the magnate and 'push' it away, hence an rpm increase.

Surely the same effect can be obtained by inserting a suitable inductor in series with the load? The current through the inductor coil gets delayed by the inductance. Seeing as it is in series with the generator coil, the current drawn from the generator coil is also phase delayed behind the generating flux.

Which means you can tune most off-the-shelf generators with a suitable external inductor in series with each winding to get it to run in lenz-push mode.

Interesting. Have you achieved this using series inductors?

[Sydney]

External Inductor

Hello from Australia. My understanding of the delayed lenz effect is that the output current is out of phase with the the magnetic flux that created it therefore the lenz law flux can be timed to coincide with the departure of the magnate and 'push' it away, hence an rpm increase.

Surely the same effect can be obtained by inserting a suitable inductor in series with the load? The current through the inductor coil gets delayed by the inductance. Seeing as it is in series with the generator coil, the current drawn from the generator coil is also phase delayed behind the generating flux.

Which means you can tune most off-the-shelf generators with a suitable external inductor in series with each winding to get it to run in lenz-push mode.

[qvision]

Well, i've been told on another forum that this is standard motor theory and i looked it up and he's right :

"The answer is not frequency, or duty cycle, or inductive reactance, it's even more basic than that, it's the developed back EMF which is proportional to rotor velocity, so while the speed is below the steady state speed, the EMF is below the supply voltage and a difference of potential exists that drives current through the windings during the ON time of the pulses. This current is I = (V - EMF) / R, where R is the resistance of the coils. So if current flows, torque is created, and this torque accelerates the rotor and brings it up to a higher velocity which has a higher EMF, which in turn draws an even lower amount of current, and so on, exponentially approaching steady state, and minimum current draw, when the rotor is not under load. However, if you place it under mechanical loading, than the velocity will drop to a level that allows current to flow from the battery into the motor to produces a torque that balances the mechanical loading placed on it. This is basic motor theory, everyone should know it, especially on this forum!"

So i'm not excited about it, i will be excited when i get a gen coil to speed up the rotor

Also Thane replied :

"Dear Gary,

A video would be good - however a coil resistance of 19.2 ohms is NOT enough, overunityguide shows 385 ohms or so with an inductance of 2.18 Henries. A 3 k ohm coil is way TOO HIGH and will most likely consume any delayed current in the internal resistance of the coil...

My motor professor in college had a saying which said, "if first you don't succeed - go back and follow the instructions."

Why not make a 385 ohm coil with an inductance of 2 Henries and see what happens?

Cheers
Thane"

So now i have to wait until the right wire to achieve values close to those for L and R is in stock at my local place.

[Allen Burgess]

Inverse input.

@qvision,

Congratulations on another superb, straight foward video demonstration. I would guess the input draw reverses around 15k, as mine did; Around the same threshold speed Overunityguide gets his "Lenz Delay Effect" at, multiplied by his rotor magnets. I think your video is at least as convinceing a confirmation of "Lenz Delay" as Overunityguides. Can you tach it?

The shortened pulse width explanation is not new. The number of pulses increases as the pulse width narrows, so they tend to factor each other out as kind of a push. The F=MA equation counters the reasoning from a different angle. Force is increasing while input draw diminishes. The force to watts ratio continues to widen as speed increases, which implies that power's comming from somewhere other then the battery source. My theory is that demagnetization power begins to replace source input following "Lenz Delay Phase Shift" or; Another possible corollary is that the appearance of demagnetization power in the coil is causing the " Lenz Delay Phase Shift", while also powering the acceleration.

Air has a reluctance curve as well as iron, ferrites, metglass, steel etc. as a magnetic coil core material. Air alone as a core material magnetizes and demagnetizes at a rate comparable with all the other di-electrics, and can generate demagnatization power along with "Space Era Nanoperm".

Good job and keen observation! This is the kind of very benificial work we need to help advance our understanding of "Lenz Delay Propulsion".