* SPECIAL EVENT * August 4, 2011, 7pm Pacific Time Zone

[minoly]

Alright, just received my bottles today
nice package - bottle has the look of healthy life.

ready to begin testing...
consumed my first 2oz right out of the box will do so again tonight.
tastes like water, I would not exactly call it salty, kind of "minerally"?

Aaron, I seem to remember some recommended time of day or do not eat before or after or consume any other liquid recommendations. I can not find that info. again, do you mind posting or PM?



Patrick

[Mark]

Well I just ordered some and I'll let the product speak for itself. I'll be happy to let people know what I think about the product if they're interested. I ordered today so hopefully I'll have it in a week and will use it for at least 60 days.

Aaron does it take longer than a week to recieve after ordering? I'll give you a call with some questions I have after I've read all the material. Normally I probably wouldn't spend this kind of money for a heath product but I dont believe that you or Peter would put your reputations on the line if this was a scam.

If I start to see some results after 30 days I plan on jumping on this opportunity. This could be just what I've been looking for.

Thanks again Aaron
Mark

[Aaron]

Gravityblock Disinformation Agent

"

Here's a brochure on such a device, which utilizes the most advanced platinum-titanium electrodes in the world. This system is a little pricey, but there are cheaper alternatives available also. Comparing the price of this system to the price of a one year supply through the MLM scheme is the break-even point.

That is a good unit - I used to want one - that is a budget version of the Kangen water unit that is the best on the market. However, it is fairly delusional to believe this is creating BALANCED redox signaling molecules like what the mitochondria produces. These units have nothing to do producing any sodium or chlorine species like what the mitochondria produce either.

Your posts prove you are out of your league - self evident by convincing people that this machine is creating 16 different molecules. I'll leave your posts here for the record to show how even though you read a patent app for this product, you are convincing people that they can buy this machine and make it for the rest of their lives - it doesn't even use the same ingredients/molecules/atoms! You seem to not have a single clue as to what you are actually saying.

" Pure water selection (non-ionized) can be important if you or visitors are on an acid-based drug regimen. Although alkaline micro clustered water helps the absorption of many supplements and reduces the dosage requirement, it may affect drugs that are designed to be taken with acid or neutral water." That is from the product brochure - our redox signaling molecules product is 100% non toxic with ZERO contraindications for any medicines. Again, you are leading people to hurt themselves by not knowing what you're taking about. If people use non-ionized, it is just purified water and if it is the alkaline water - it can interfere with people's meds. Nowhere in this product are various clorine derivatives, etc... being created like what the mitochondria produce.

This machine can produce some oxygenated water and even some antioxidant water, which is ok when consumed immediately, but learn how to read the science, most of that antioxidant water is completely worthless inside the body without the right ROS immune system communicators and the RS molecules which are needed to ACTIVATE the antioxidants to begin with. Without the RS molecules the only antioxidants from the water that can be activated are proportionate to the free rs molecules the mitochondria produce - and how many are going to be available when they are ALREADY in matched pairs to the ROS the same mitochondria produce????? Good job though on getting people to unbalance their chemistry.

Our product has an incredible abundance of RS and ROS - matched in a balance so that other antioxidants can actually be activated without taking away from the small amount of rs and ros the mitochondria produce that are necessary to activate the glutathione and sod!

But you want people to consume an exogenous antioxidant that can neutralize ONE single free radical and turn into a free radical itself (just a lesser or weaker evil) then it is done.

While if you let the natural rs and ros activate glutathione and sod together with the catalase enzyem, one natural ONE SINGLE NATURAL ONE will neutralize up to 70,000 in ONE SECOND.

So let's see, 1 versus 70,000. And you want to load the body with negatively charged WATER so that the rs molecules will go to activating those instead of our natural endogenous antioxidants. Good thinking - NOT!

And this is the most advanced platinum electrodes in the world - because the brochure says so. And they're using flat plates - sorry but you're expecting everyone here to have just fallen off a turnip truck. If you want to actually use platinum electrodes to experiment with, you actually need to have them UNATTACHED TO A MACHINE!

I actually know who you and your pilot friend is who likes to pretend to be unrelated to you while posting messages applauding your posts - I used to live in Dayton, Ohio / Wright Patterson AFB - stop the insults, some ou.com members know who you are too. And again, stop directing people's attention away from the truth - yeah, buy a $1300 water unit and you're creating 16 different redox signaling molecules in balance.

You are the same as the character in the story 1984. He holds up x amount of fingers and tries to tell them it is a different number than is really there.

[toranarod]

my point exactly

My only complaint is the price. Families all across the globe are struggling to survive and pay their mortgages (and sadly a lot are failing). I could never try to sell this to anyone even if I was sure of it's affects. Hell, I do all right in paying my bills and I still can't justify the price just to try it out. I worry that there is a money trail to the top of this scheme and somebody is making a fortune. I would rather discuss how to do this ourselves so we free ourselves from any outside need (as I thought this forum was all about).

Just my opinion, and I wish everyone luck with this.

The rich and wealthy will stay healthy and the poor will die. this is the one big crime I can see coming from this stuff. Its already to expansive for some. you health should not be controlled by your economic position.
Then what? How do I get more? How do Fund my need to stay healthy.
You become a distributor just as any drug dealer does to support his habit

[occy30]

By the way, how does this taste? That doesn't seem to get mentioned much.

[occy30]

My only complaint is the price. Families all across the globe are struggling to survive and pay their mortgages (and sadly a lot are failing). I could never try to sell this to anyone even if I was sure of it's affects. Hell, I do all right in paying my bills and I still can't justify the price just to try it out. I worry that there is a money trail to the top of this scheme and somebody is making a fortune. I would rather discuss how to do this ourselves so we free ourselves from any outside need (as I thought this forum was all about).

Just my opinion, and I wish everyone luck with this.

[Aaron]

gravity block anonymous fraud

You're automatically assuming that a toxic chlorine stew will be produced by those who decide to do this themselves. I never said to use stainless steel, but according to you, this is what people will use if they do it themselves. This is the purpose of having a discussion on how to DIY, so it can be done properly. I never told anyone to produce a toxic chlorine stew so they can ingest it ( I never told anyone to do this sort of thing, as you're suggesting I did).

It takes a miniscule amount of common sense to know that almost nobody is going to do this right and will use electrodes that will contaminate the batch. You're preaching from zero experience of knowing anything about redox signaling and suddenly you know how to guide people in this process. That is completely laughable.

What is more laughable is that you will have people convinced they are producing the same thing when in reality, even with platinum electrodes, they're going to be producing an unbalanced sanitizing agent and this has absolutely nothing to do with replicating the 16 molecules in this product, which are balanced (stabilization is irrelevant for point of use) and in the same proportion to each other like what the mitochondria produces.

What you're doing is the same as looking at the Bedini chargers, trying to teach someone to charge a cap or put a spike to the battery and suddenly you are an expert on how the battery chargers. That is beyond silly but this is exactly what you're doing here.

If I didn't want people to experiment with anything along these lines, I wouldn't be suggesting it in my book to start with using electrolyzed water on plants that don't grow food, etc... people have to learn to walk before they can run - especially if it is something they're going to be ingesting at some point.

You already admitted that your "theory" is a valid contribution even without the experiments - I never said it wasn't but when you start insulting people for not believing the same as you, and you stay anonymous, that is a pretty cowardly thing to do - especially when you want people to drink something that you don't make yourself. Your insults have come to an end.

[gravityblock]

EF members have been sold out!

Typical response from you with your spin.

A vitamin is healthy in a recommended dose. Creating a toxic chlorine stew is toxic in any dose. You are comparing apples and oranges and are exhibiting your typical manipulative spin.

Please don't tell people to do stupid things - not on this forum.

And don't put words in my mouth or pretend to know why I am posting this. Protect my investment? I can't help it that you are so seriously insecure and paranoid that you see an agenda behind everything.

What do you think people are going to use for electrodes? Platinum? Yeah right! If you want to make it yourself, it is because you think you can save money - not spend 10 times as much for the right electrodes and still not be able to make the same product.

You are MISSING THE POINT.

Electrolyzed salt water is nothing new. Has been used to sterilize things for a long time. It is even used to wash clothes and sanitize counters, etc... in Japan for a while. But that is because it is creating reactive oxygen species, the peroxides, hypochlorous acid, etc... those are sterilizing agents.

If you want the benefits of that, don't waste people's time or money to achieve that goal. Anyone can get some food grade hydrogen peroxide, put about 5 drops in a cup of water and drink that a few time a day. You will get those benefits. Plenty of valid protocols on the net for this. About $20 worth of food grade h2o2 will last probably a year or more. I don't remember the cost but I sold it in my health food store but it lasts a LONG time.

This product is NOT THAT. It contains the ROS but also a PERFECT BALANCE of the RS molecules that evolve at the cathode. BOTH together where they don't neutralize themselves (you will not figure that one out - I will stick by that prediction) - so they are in the SAME ratio as what the mitochondria produces. If it is produced without being stabilized, but is balanced, the person will get the benefits, but is it balanced and the exact 16 molecules with some back yard setup and electrodes that will poison you? If not BALANCED, you're wasting your time. Expensive saline solution - yeah, real bright GB. This product boosts the body's glutathione and sod production and catalase enzymes AND increases the effectiveness of them by 500%! Boosts volume of production AND effectiveness. Go electrolyze salt water with your DIY instruction manual with non-platinum electrodes and get those results. You didn't just miss the boat, you missed the whole dock.

If you do not get this perfect balance, you are NOT coming up with the same thing and it will NEVER happen using a junk setup with stainless steel, etc... maybe you can look up what the word INERT means - that is why platinum is used. It won't corrode and therefore will not add or take away from the chemistry of the reaction in the solution.

Stainless steel is NOT stainless. It is only stain resistant. I have plenty of T304 and L316 SS electrodes that are RUSTED because the passivation CAN and WILL break down. I have a stainless steel penergizer from Johann Grander and it RUSTS. Anything metallic that is not inert or anything that is organic will trigger the reaction of the balanced molecules and they will start to neutralize and will turn back into salt water. But of course you already have figured out 16 years of research in one night glancing at a patent app, which doesn't spell out any of the hidden art.

And this is from someone that has never had enough confidence in anything they said to ever attach their real name to it. Nor have they (GB) ever produced evidence of every conducting any experiments - you already admitted you only do "theory" - actually what you do is postulation, hasn't made it to theory yet. Yet, you want to inform others how to DIY redox molecules and experiment on themselves as guinea pigs because you know you're not willing to do it yourself. Real big of you.

You're automatically assuming that a toxic chlorine stew will be produced by those who decide to do this themselves. I never said to use stainless steel, but according to you, this is what people will use if they do it themselves. This is the purpose of having a discussion on how to DIY, so it can be done properly. I never told anyone to produce a toxic chlorine stew so they can ingest it ( I never told anyone to do this sort of thing, as you're suggesting I did). In fact, there are devices already on the market which utilize electrolysis through patented platinum bonded titanium electrodes inside a water cell along with being able to control the pH. Here's a brochure on such a device, which utilizes the most advanced platinum-titanium electrodes in the worldThe Jupiter Science Aquarius (same link as above) employs computer accurate, selectable magnetic energy to perform electrolysis through patented platinum bonded titanium electrodes inside a water cell. A little modification to this or a similar device is all that is needed. EF MEMBERS HAVE BEEN SOLD OUT!

I never admitted anywhere that I only do "theory". I have done many experiments and replications on the various forums. There is no reason for me to attach my real name to anything I do on these forums, because I'm not selling anything like you are. I want others to know that it may be possible to produce a safe and stable form of redox molecules themselves at a fraction of the cost. The concentrations of the 16 molecules is controlled by the parameters chosen, such as temperature and voltage.

GB

[Savvypro]

Savvypro,

I'm not sure they're all so objective but I get your points. Thanks for your comments.

Halbert and Abraham recommend countless people - I don't discount Collier, just that there are many, many people from his era that are recommended by the top dogs in the field and not everyone can or will follow everyone.

And you can see in some of their recommendations that some of the people contradict each other - Elmer Wheeler, sell the sizzle not the steak... and some say you have to sell the steak too, both recommended by the same people. So when they recommend things that contradict each other, I think the lesson is to take the best you can from each - but there are obvious generalities to stick to - you have to simply go with what ever works for you. And everything will be a case by case situation anyway.

The way I see it is to start from where they say, then watch what they actually do. As in many cases, many people who teach marketing - don't practice what they preach. On the contradictions - that's where modern physiological research comes into play. But then again there are a number of people, that the the top dogs just completely skip in mentioning - because its where they get the gold from.

Anyway Savvypro, when something gives good results, it is simply not executed poorly - if it was, the results would be proportionate.

Not quite. I have to treed carefully here as I'm under an NDA for something that I learnt that's related to what I'm about to say. When the product and the market are just right, it's doesn't mater how badly or poorly you execute the marketing/sales process - you'll still get good results.

Documentation beats conversation so the saying goes. But I would absolutely agree that looking at anything from a strict conversion rate, everything has room for improvement. Nothing I have ever done is perfect, if it was, I would have stopped all my efforts years ago because I couldn't get any better.

Kaizen is the goal...

From a motive of the presentation, the thing I was most excited about is for people to see a Stan Meyer/Xogen/etc... hybrid being used to create something for health that happens to be the most significant breakthrough in cellular biology - in history.

I would have gone with the excitement, and how Stan's process has a much more unknown and profound application.

One of the main reasons I've gotten the successes that I've achieved in my ventures is because I remain teachable and am always passionately doing my best to learn from those that have results I want in all areas of life.

Same here. To paraphrase Otto von Bismarck: A smart man learns from his mistakes, but a truly wise man learns from the mistakes of others.

[Aaron]

asking others to drink something he won't drink himself

A person can poison themselves by taking vitamins also, if they don't read and follow directions. Same with many pharmaceutical drugs and other things in life if the neccessary precautions aren't taken into account. The thread I created is to do Research so it can be done properly so it's not limited to a small percentage with "deep pockets". The Educational value may also be of benefit in other areas also.

You just trying to protect your investment. All persons giving testimonials about this product has a financial motivation to give it a thumbs up. It may not be anymore than an expensive saline solution.

GB

Typical response from you with your spin.

A vitamin is healthy in a recommended dose. Creating a toxic chlorine stew is toxic in any dose. You are comparing apples and oranges and are exhibiting your typical manipulative spin.

Please don't tell people to do stupid things - not on this forum.

And don't put words in my mouth or pretend to know why I am posting this. Protect my investment? I can't help it that you are so seriously insecure and paranoid that you see an agenda behind everything.

What do you think people are going to use for electrodes? Platinum? Yeah right! If you want to make it yourself, it is because you think you can save money - not spend 10 times as much for the right electrodes and still not be able to make the same product.

You are MISSING THE POINT.

Electrolyzed salt water is nothing new. Has been used to sterilize things for a long time. It is even used to wash clothes and sanitize counters, etc... in Japan for a while. But that is because it is creating reactive oxygen species, the peroxides, hypochlorous acid, etc... those are sterilizing agents.

If you want the benefits of that, don't waste people's time or money to achieve that goal. Anyone can get some food grade hydrogen peroxide, put about 5 drops in a cup of water and drink that a few time a day. You will get those benefits. Plenty of valid protocols on the net for this. About $20 worth of food grade h2o2 will last probably a year or more. I don't remember the cost but I sold it in my health food store but it lasts a LONG time.

This product is NOT THAT. It contains the ROS but also a PERFECT BALANCE of the RS molecules that evolve at the cathode. BOTH together where they don't neutralize themselves (you will not figure that one out - I will stick by that prediction) - so they are in the SAME ratio as what the mitochondria produces. If it is produced without being stabilized, but is balanced, the person will get the benefits, but is it balanced and the exact 16 molecules with some back yard setup and electrodes that will poison you? If not BALANCED, you're wasting your time. Expensive saline solution - yeah, real bright GB. This product boosts the body's glutathione and sod production and catalase enzymes AND increases the effectiveness of them by 500%! Boosts volume of production AND effectiveness. Go electrolyze salt water with your DIY instruction manual with non-platinum electrodes and get those results. You didn't just miss the boat, you missed the whole dock.

If you do not get this perfect balance, you are NOT coming up with the same thing and it will NEVER happen using a junk setup with stainless steel, etc... maybe you can look up what the word INERT means - that is why platinum is used. It won't corrode and therefore will not add or take away from the chemistry of the reaction in the solution.

Stainless steel is NOT stainless. It is only stain resistant. I have plenty of T304 and L316 SS electrodes that are RUSTED because the passivation CAN and WILL break down. I have a stainless steel penergizer from Johann Grander and it RUSTS. Anything metallic that is not inert or anything that is organic will trigger the reaction of the balanced molecules and they will start to neutralize and will turn back into salt water. But of course you already have figured out 16 years of research in one night glancing at a patent app, which doesn't spell out any of the hidden art.

And this is from someone that has never had enough confidence in anything they said to ever attach their real name to it. Nor have they (GB) ever produced evidence of every conducting any experiments - you already admitted you only do "theory" - actually what you do is postulation, hasn't made it to theory yet. Yet, you want to inform others how to DIY redox molecules and experiment on themselves as guinea pigs because you know you're not willing to do it yourself. Real big of you.

[Pamela Vicik-Smith]

I have been following this thread and will like to add my two cents.

First, for disclosure, both I and my husband are using this product. I have also made the decision to sell it after doing my own due deligence and spending hours and hours to research the product and the company online.

There seems to be some concerns here regarding the following three areas: the product itself, the cost of the product, and how the product is currently being sold and marketed.

Before I address these points from my point of view, I will like to point out that I am not a new member to this forum. I am one of the charter members and have been posting for over 4 and a half years. Though I admit, I do not post in the Free Energy section only because I am not well-versed in this area. But my point is, I am not making this post to try to sell something to anyone - I just want to express my ideas.

First about the product itself: though I researched this and found hundreds, if not thousands of testimonials, I wanted to try this product myself and see what results I would get. My husband and I have been using this for over 4 weeks and here is what we have experienced:

I have had a very painful back issue for many years. Anyone can easily search some of my previous posts here and find several references to this. I have had x-rays, MRI's, shots, therapy, treatment from doctors, chiropractors, have tried every alternative healing method I know, and have found no relief. I have even been a guinea pig for many members of this forum who are doing various types of healing modalities, yet nothing has helped with this severe pain.

Normally, I cannot walk or stand more than 5 minutes at a time before this white-hot pain shoots down from my left hip to behind the back of my knee. As part of my job, I attend 6 major trade shows a year that require me to be on my feet for 3 solid days. In order to get thru these days, I usually take 3-5 Aleve during the day and then an additional 1 or 2 before going to bed at nite. The next morning before even getting in the shower, I have to take another.

I just attended another of these trade shows in Chicago 3 weeks ago. At the time I had been using this product for only 10 days and personally, did not expect to see a difference in such a short period of time. However, for the first time ever, I did not need to take a single pain pill the entire three days of the show. My days started at 6am and I did not get back to my hotel each nite until close to 11pm. I had a few twinges throughout the day, but nothing close to the magnitude of how it was before. Since that show, I have not had a single pain med for my back.

My husband has sinus issues, especially in the morning. We have coffee together each morning and since we have been married, he is always extremely congested in the morning. Normally he has to blow his nose about 5-6 times or more. The condition usually clears up later in the day.

When I got home from Chicago, we were having coffee the next morning and I noticed he wasn't congested. I mentioned it to him and he then realized he hadn't been congested all week. It appears that condition has completely left him and is no longer an issue.

There are several other good things we have experienced, but you get the picture.

As far as the cost of the product is concerned, it is about $30 a week. This is less than the cost of eating at McDonalds for lunch every day. I know several people who spend more than this for various vitamins and supplements. But after using this product for over a month, neither my husband nor I want to be without it. We will cut out something else in our budget to afford this.

And finally, to answer some concerns as to how this product is being marketed, this type of marketing has been around for more than 60 years that I know of. Does anyone here have a wife that sells Avon, Mary Kay, Tupperware, Pampered Chef, etc? It is the exact same concept - no difference at all.

Personally, I am very grateful for this product and the business opportunity it presents. Where else can I start my own business for the cost of only one month's supply of the product for personal use and an additional $40?

And there is a 100% no questions asked, end of the bottle, money-back guarantee for anyone who tries the product but feels it is not working for them. So there is absolutely no risk involved.

I hope this information is helpful and will give some of you a different perspective.

[Aaron]

@Savvypro

Savvypro,

I'm not sure they're all so objective but I get your points. Thanks for your comments.

Halbert and Abraham recommend countless people - I don't discount Collier, just that there are many, many people from his era that are recommended by the top dogs in the field and not everyone can or will follow everyone.

And you can see in some of their recommendations that some of the people contradict each other - Elmer Wheeler, sell the sizzle not the steak... and some say you have to sell the steak too, both recommended by the same people. So when they recommend things that contradict each other, I think the lesson is to take the best you can from each - but there are obvious generalities to stick to - you have to simply go with what ever works for you. And everything will be a case by case situation anyway.

Anyway Savvypro, when something gives good results, it is simply not executed poorly - if it was, the results would be proportionate. Documentation beats conversation so the saying goes. But I would absolutely agree that looking at anything from a strict conversion rate, everything has room for improvement. Nothing I have ever done is perfect, if it was, I would have stopped all my efforts years ago because I couldn't get any better.

From a motive of the presentation, the thing I was most excited about is for people to see a Stan Meyer/Xogen/etc... hybrid being used to create something for health that happens to be the most significant breakthrough in cellular biology - in history.

One of the main reasons I've gotten the successes that I've achieved in my ventures is because I remain teachable and am always passionately doing my best to learn from those that have results I want in all areas of life.

[gravityblock]

THINK GB, the average person is going to use stainless steel, etc.. and will wind up with traces of toxic chromium, etc... in their mix, etc... go ahead and encourage people to screw themselves up - not very smart.

Why don't you study the whole thing before haphazardly recommending that people poison themselves.

Scare tactic? Anyone with business sense knows that a very small
insignificant percentage of anyone that will try to do it themselves has
no bearing on the majority of the population that simply wants to purchase
it. This has ALWAYS been the case.

Look at the history of the radiant battery charging for example - many people want to do it themselves UNTIL it is actually available to buy so people don't have to waste their time - unless they just want to study it but that is a small minority - most people are fairly pragmatic and see it as a waste of time.

Personally, I find it interesting and want to keep studying it but you are talking about a product that someone is to ingest and a product that your knowledge of is extremely minuscule, while inferring that people could make it themselves while saying it is a scare tactic to discourage someone from doing so.

In my book, I mention that if someone wants to experiment with using electrolyzed water for biology to practice on plants first that don't produce food. You really need to walk before you can run and if anyone gets sick from your ill informed advice, you are 100% responsible for them. Very easy for an anonymous person that refuses to put their real name to anything they say.

I have no problem with people discussing the science first but to suggest something that you know nothing about is completely irresponsible.

A person can poison themselves by taking vitamins also, if they don't read and follow directions. Same with many pharmaceutical drugs and other things in life if the neccessary precautions aren't taken into account. The thread I created is to do Research so it can be done properly so it's not limited to a small percentage with "deep pockets". The Educational value may also be of benefit in other areas also.

You just trying to protect your investment. All persons giving testimonials about this product has a financial motivation to give it a thumbs up. It may not be anymore than an expensive saline solution.

GB

[Savvypro]

My mistake, one of the horses mouths, but whether it is one or more, it is interesting how you appear to be surprised (in your comment above) that someone hasn't followed your same path.

I wasn't assuming that you or anyone has or should follow the same path as I did.

I was surprised because you use sales letters to sell your products (which is what that quote is about) - at least for the digital ones. And then you go and mention Halbert and Abraham, two men who recommend Collier as required reading when learning how to write copy.

There are quite a few different paths in this life - I'm sure you know that.

Yep. + see above...

The thing that gets me is how you are so sure of yourself that it is "executed poorly" because you have a small percentage of people complaining about misleading themselves.

It's not just about the people complaining, if you reread my posts, you'll see that I cover the lead up - as well as the call. E.g: poor expatiation management, multiple messages to multiple markets, call with multiple options - no clear offer.

You prove this point again claiming it was poor, people see one thing and their mind goes into autopilot mode creating all kinds of false realities about the situation instead of just seeing it for what it is. What it is, is a few people complaining about it but out of that you have all the answers.

See previous comment.

Just like the analogy of the three wise men that each are grabbing a different part of an elephant - trunk, leg and tail - each is asked to describe what it is and they are coming to a conclusion based on a small glimpse of the overall picture.

It's more of being too close to the situation to see the problems/issues.

I know what the real results are because I'm corresponding with people by phone and email on a daily basis since then - people that are interested in doing something productive with their lives, not finding things to complain about.

I never once said you wouldn't get any interest in the product or the network marketing opportunity. Your assuming I did.

Not complaining, just offering an objective opinion.

And, most of them are members of Energetic Forum. They're actually appreciative of learning something new about the health breakthrough and they're thankful for the battery secret.

Never said I wasn't, if you reread my posts you'll see that I'm part of the group.

[Aaron]

Redox Signaling Molecules

To have a responsible discussion about this with people that are actually qualified to discuss it, I started this thread: Redox Signaling Molecules

I have information that others don't and GB's casual references are immature and irresponsible.

To those that have no intent of following responsible advice and insists on trying to drink what they brew up in their garage, use only platinum electrodes or you will poison yourself by changing the chemistry of the solution when iron and other metals come in contact with the solution.

Passivated layers on steel to make them "stainless" are not really stainless, they are only stain resistant until the passivation layer is broken through and it doesn't take much under these circumstances to do that.

Take the advice in my book - if you experiment with anything along these lines, experiment first on plants that do not produce food that you will eat. No matter what you do, you will not replicate a stabilized solution of 16 molecules unless you are "skilled in the art" and the patent apps and patents only give you a direction but do not show you the complete path. They are enough to understand what the final product is to understand the molecules involved and that is enough to understand the biochemical pathways involved in ROS and RS reactions at the cellular level.

Some people can be naive to believe that a cursory overview of an app or patent for this is enough to circumvent 16 years and millions of dollars in research in order to make this happen - that is fine - we all like to feel we can take shortcuts but this is not some motor experiment, this is something we DRINK and this is not a joke. Electric experiments are one thing but people's body's and health are something not to mess around with.

Sorry GB, wake up and give some disclaimers before planting goofball ideas in people's heads that may not know any better. You can claim you are only commenting that they may be using something as a "scare tactic" to keep people from trying to replicate and will claim you are not trying to encourage people to replicate it but posting info on a fluorspectrometer is all telling. You have a clear history revealing your Modus operandi here so we can just let it rest at that. You posted your link at ou and I will cross link to my own threads here.

This applies to simple electrolyzed water even without sodium chloride. George Wiseman's Browns Gas for Health page Sounds like he gave himself pneumonia by inhaling gas produced with lye as an electrolyte. Sodium chloride is not lye but but it can produce very toxic chlorine compounds that can kill your lungs. Mustard gas is a form of chlorine gas. Just use common sense and safety first everyone.

The ONLY thing I would recommend doing as an experiment for starters is electrolyzed water with no electrolyte and using that as a liquid to water plants (that grow no food) with. Jumping straight to electrolyte based solutions for health purposes is like asking someone that is using a AA battery to light an LED to start playing with a million volt Tesla Coil - they aren't the same thing.

I will answer what I can here: Redox Signaling Molecules but will not encourage people to start brewing up poison in their garage. Countless millions of dollars are not going to be invested in something that just anyone can cook up in their spare time as a hobby.