* SPECIAL EVENT * August 4, 2011, 7pm Pacific Time Zone

[ewizard]

If you're in the US or Canada - you can order 1 case and get on autoship, which you can cancel before the autoship date if you're unhappy for any reason. Call customer service and you get your money refunded minus shipping cost. That is a solid guarantee.

Where are you located? I have some inventory being shipped to me in a few days and can send direct. PM me for payment options. I can take western union, money order or cashier's check. Paypal is the easiest but if you don't have a credit card, the above options should work.

In the CONUS. I tried to PM you but your box is full. I'll try again later. Thanks Aaron.

[Aaron]

ordering

I'd like to try some of this product but there is no way I can buy it on a credit card nor will I buy it on any auto-ship program. I'd like to give a a fair chance for a month or two but I know from long experience in trying all sorts of health products that some work for me and some do not. I simply refuse to get drawn into spending a lot of money that I do not have on something I cannot try. Are there any alternatives to get some of this other than the auto-ship program and being a member? I have not read this whole thread so I'm sorry if this has been answered before.

If you're in the US or Canada - you can order 1 case and get on autoship, which you can cancel before the autoship date if you're unhappy for any reason. Call customer service and you get your money refunded minus shipping cost. That is a solid guarantee.

Where are you located? I have some inventory being shipped to me in a few days and can send direct. PM me for payment options. I can take western union, money order or cashier's check. Paypal is the easiest but if you don't have a credit card, the above options should work.

[toranarod]

Rich Roll, elite ultra-endurance athlete and one of

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who is going to record some of theses shows and put them on you tube?
or up load them to a torrent site?

[ewizard]

<snip <
You want to boost your body's efficiency? Go bathe your body in red light and pulsed at 292Hz preferably. But that is probably too simple in concept for most people to believe but they can't say I never gave them anything. That is a PRICELESS piece of info that I have personally benefited from for the last 11 years or so.

RED LED panels are cheap from ebay. Go buy one and pulse it with a frequency generator. Still limited to the redox signaling molecules your mitochondria can make on its own but nevertheless, an increase. Again, plenty of things people COULD do if they actually want to apply what they learn.

Can you recommend a particular red LED panel or brand? I found some that looked reasonable and claimed to be highest quality but found negative feedback saying they were cheap junk.

[ewizard]

I'd like to try some of this product but there is no way I can buy it on a credit card nor will I buy it on any auto-ship program. I'd like to give a a fair chance for a month or two but I know from long experience in trying all sorts of health products that some work for me and some do not. I simply refuse to get drawn into spending a lot of money that I do not have on something I cannot try. Are there any alternatives to get some of this other than the auto-ship program and being a member? I have not read this whole thread so I'm sorry if this has been answered before.

[Aaron]

international

For international - I can help with that in limited amounts for personal use that is not intended for resale nor can it be used to start building a business outside of the US or Canada until the company officially launches there.

I have an international notification list here: International Redox Signaling Molecules

After joining and confirming the confirmation list, just reply to that first email that comes and we can take it from there. Please keep in mind the company cannot ship direct. I have to pay tax and shipping to my location then have to pay intl shipping + 4% paypal fee to receive the money but I am passing on savings from when I do bulk orders to help cancel out some of the intl shipping fees.

[toranarod]

Torana,

Did you say you bought some? From memory you're in Aus? If so, how did you go about doing that? Guys, I need some help. I want to try this product - will someone help me get some?

Yes I am an Aussie The Torana is a dead give away. Many other would not know what a Torana is.

I no I have been in a moral debate with Aaron. But He is the Man and good friend.
talk to him directly. I think he has a contact.

[krzysiek]

Torana,

Did you say you bought some? From memory you're in Aus? If so, how did you go about doing that? Guys, I need some help. I want to try this product - will someone help me get some?

[toranarod]

I believe that is a myth.

Competition is good to simply stimulate creativity and to motivate people.

PATHS has ZERO competition. It used to be $1250 to get a platinum package and was $500 per month. Now it is a small fraction of that. The regular packages used to be $129/month for ONE single module, it is now $34.95 for a package of up to 4 modules after the startup fee. The prices were not lowered just to get more people to sign up, the prices were lowered because of ECONOMY OF SCALE. It was said from the beginning that when there is enough people using PATHS that the price will come down, no competition and the company kept their word.

Competition COULD become a factor in a company being forced to bring their prices down but that has no bearing on making a company "honest". If a company is dishonest, nothing will change that and it will self destruct in the end. If a company is honest, it is honest regardless of competition or pricing.

This health product is priced to be competitive to other products in the network marketing industry so the prima facie evidence is that price is not even an issue because these other companies have moved towards $1 billon. The difference between this company and those companies is that this company is growing while the others are shrinking - as a fact - many distributors are leaving many of the other companies. And I believe many distributors in the antioxidant product companies are going to be embarrassed to even sell the antioxidant juices once the facts about them become common knowledge. They're going to want to come work with this company. Other companies have different products but the facts are that the monthly cost is what people are willing to pay while keeping the company sustainable while paying out more to people that share the message than they keep for themselves is working, and working quite well.

When demand exceeds supply? That isn't going to increase the cost of a product like this in a network marketing company. This company's technology is modular and can be setup in 3 months flat as demand justifies it. It isn't a commodity or something subject to speculation like wheat or oil. The compensation plan and the cost are intimately connected together and is very stable. Look at the products in all network marketing companies (health products) - they are extremely stable. And a further advantage is that other companies packaging "magical" berries, etc... are at the mercy of weather, etc... and there are things that could potentially upset the supply - but this is medical grade sodium chloride that is masterfully rearranged and stabilized and bottled. If anything, this company's product is probably more stable (pun intended) than every other consumable health product in the world.

The product is fairly priced in my opinion. I personally know people that also think it is too expensive, while they have a cable television bill of about the same price because ESPN or HBO + their netflix subscription takes more of a priority than their health. I don't believe in convincing people. Give the options and people will take advantage of it or not.

Again, there are PLENTY of things people can do to better their health regardless of income. Qigong, red light therapy (cost is no longer a real excuse these days - look at the cost of red and infrared led's), changing up their diet, etc... so, there are no valid reason to blame this product. Anyone with an issue with price could easily take the other recommendations of things to do because they will still be greatly benefiting their health.

Instead of blaming the price of this product, why not spend the same time utilizing other things that are recommended where price is obviously not an issue. If you are so concerned about helping people in a less expensive or free way, why not organize Qigong classes in your area promoting a local teacher? Or go into business selling red light panels on ebay or whatever? What about organizing a class teaching people about dietary changes that would benefit them without changing their monthly expenses?

Are you personally willing to do any of these things? You would be doing what you appear to want to do and that is help people with health issues in a way that cost isn't an issue. Here are some ways, maybe you can come up with others, but again, are you actually willing to do something like this? If not, how are your concerns even justified?

I already make every health decision possible exercise every day eat only the correct foods take no drugs of any kind.


Ok you have convinced me thank you for Helpimg me with it.

[Aaron]

price is not an issue

All I am trying to say is every business needs competition to Keep them honest.
what will happen when demand exceeds supply? the price never comes down.
it can only go up.

I believe that is a myth.

Competition is good to simply stimulate creativity and to motivate people.

PATHS has ZERO competition. It used to be $1250 to get a platinum package and was $500 per month. Now it is a small fraction of that. The regular packages used to be $129/month for ONE single module, it is now $34.95 for a package of up to 4 modules after the startup fee. The prices were not lowered just to get more people to sign up, the prices were lowered because of ECONOMY OF SCALE. It was said from the beginning that when there is enough people using PATHS that the price will come down, no competition and the company kept their word.

Competition COULD become a factor in a company being forced to bring their prices down but that has no bearing on making a company "honest". If a company is dishonest, nothing will change that and it will self destruct in the end. If a company is honest, it is honest regardless of competition or pricing.

This health product is priced to be competitive to other products in the network marketing industry so the prima facie evidence is that price is not even an issue because these other companies have moved towards $1 billon. The difference between this company and those companies is that this company is growing while the others are shrinking - as a fact - many distributors are leaving many of the other companies. And I believe many distributors in the antioxidant product companies are going to be embarrassed to even sell the antioxidant juices once the facts about them become common knowledge. They're going to want to come work with this company. Other companies have different products but the facts are that the monthly cost is what people are willing to pay while keeping the company sustainable while paying out more to people that share the message than they keep for themselves is working, and working quite well.

When demand exceeds supply? That isn't going to increase the cost of a product like this in a network marketing company. This company's technology is modular and can be setup in 3 months flat as demand justifies it. It isn't a commodity or something subject to speculation like wheat or oil. The compensation plan and the cost are intimately connected together and is very stable. Look at the products in all network marketing companies (health products) - they are extremely stable. And a further advantage is that other companies packaging "magical" berries, etc... are at the mercy of weather, etc... and there are things that could potentially upset the supply - but this is medical grade sodium chloride that is masterfully rearranged and stabilized and bottled. If anything, this company's product is probably more stable (pun intended) than every other consumable health product in the world.

The product is fairly priced in my opinion. I personally know people that also think it is too expensive, while they have a cable television bill of about the same price because ESPN or HBO + their netflix subscription takes more of a priority than their health. I don't believe in convincing people. Give the options and people will take advantage of it or not.

Again, there are PLENTY of things people can do to better their health regardless of income. Qigong, red light therapy (cost is no longer a real excuse these days - look at the cost of red and infrared led's), changing up their diet, etc... so, there are no valid reason to blame this product. Anyone with an issue with price could easily take the other recommendations of things to do because they will still be greatly benefiting their health.

Instead of blaming the price of this product, why not spend the same time utilizing other things that are recommended where price is obviously not an issue. If you are so concerned about helping people in a less expensive or free way, why not organize Qigong classes in your area promoting a local teacher? Or go into business selling red light panels on ebay or whatever? What about organizing a class teaching people about dietary changes that would benefit them without changing their monthly expenses?

Are you personally willing to do any of these things? You would be doing what you appear to want to do and that is help people with health issues in a way that cost isn't an issue. Here are some ways, maybe you can come up with others, but again, are you actually willing to do something like this? If not, how are your concerns even justified?

[toranarod]

we are cazy

you know what I am over it. it to distracting from my OU work
cheers

[toranarod]

Energetic Forum is created in order to be a vehicle for positive sharing of energy, health, agriculture or consciousness technologies, information, ideas, etc... This DOES contribute to many solutions and is an incredible compendium of resources of many things people can do or build themselves and nothing is asked in return from anyone.

Some things cost money and because they do does not take away from anything Energetic Forum is about. Nobody is forced to buy anything. There are options and people can pick and choose as they desire. But to say that because something is available that some people don't want to spend the money on is causing a problem I think is extraordinarily unrealistic.

Solar panels are a solution - an expensive on. But it is a guaranteed way to get a home off the grid, indisputably - enough panels and anyone is off the grid. They cost money and provide a solution but seeing the equivelant analogy to what you're saying - going with the logic that people should be tied to the grid because they can't afford the solar solution and therefore the solar solution is actually a problem - the way to remedy the problem from your perspective would be to either not make it available so nobody can benefit or to bring in competition. Look how much competition there is in solar - it is crazy - and do you see people competing by price to get the prices down? No and that has been the case for many years. The prices are coming down but SLOWLY.

For this health product, why would I need to do anything "before it is too late"? That is an alarmist perspective that doesn't make any sense to me. Like I'm personally supposed to start a new company to try to manufacture something to compete with a product that I believe in all the way and will support for years to come? So, bankrupting myself by putting every penny into reinventing the wheel in order to try to make a more inexpensive solution is your idea of solving a problem that doesn't even exist while destroying my life in the process. Thank you but I'll stick with option A, which is what I'm doing now.

Nobody else will be able to compete with this product - it is locked up too tight with the patents. There are some companies trying to ride the coattails of this product by claiming their product will boost redox signaling molecules. Yes, they may - but anything that boosts ATP will give a corresponding boost in redox signaling molecules. But those companies should read my book to see why they're wasting their time using ingredients that the body has to convert.

You want to boost your body's efficiency? Go bathe your body in red light and pulsed at 292Hz preferably. But that is probably too simple in concept for most people to believe but they can't say I never gave them anything. That is a PRICELESS piece of info that I have personally benefited from for the last 11 years or so.

RED LED panels are cheap from ebay. Go buy one and pulse it with a frequency generator. Still limited to the redox signaling molecules your mitochondria can make on its own but nevertheless, an increase. Again, plenty of things people COULD do if they actually want to apply what they learn.

All I am trying to say is every business needs competition to Keep them honest.
what will happen when demand exceeds supply? the price never comes down.
it can only go up.

[Aaron]

Rich Roll - Redox Signaling Molecules

Rich Roll, elite ultra-endurance athlete and one of

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Flint-Saginaw, MI
WNEM-TV
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WNEM 5 Wake-Up
Aug 11

Texas & Southeast US
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Conn-versations
Aug 13

[Aaron]

countless solutions all over the place

Energetic Forum is created in order to be a vehicle for positive sharing of energy, health, agriculture or consciousness technologies, information, ideas, etc... This DOES contribute to many solutions and is an incredible compendium of resources of many things people can do or build themselves and nothing is asked in return from anyone.

Some things cost money and because they do does not take away from anything Energetic Forum is about. Nobody is forced to buy anything. There are options and people can pick and choose as they desire. But to say that because something is available that some people don't want to spend the money on is causing a problem I think is extraordinarily unrealistic.

Solar panels are a solution - an expensive on. But it is a guaranteed way to get a home off the grid, indisputably - enough panels and anyone is off the grid. They cost money and provide a solution but seeing the equivelant analogy to what you're saying - going with the logic that people should be tied to the grid because they can't afford the solar solution and therefore the solar solution is actually a problem - the way to remedy the problem from your perspective would be to either not make it available so nobody can benefit or to bring in competition. Look how much competition there is in solar - it is crazy - and do you see people competing by price to get the prices down? No and that has been the case for many years. The prices are coming down but SLOWLY.

For this health product, why would I need to do anything "before it is too late"? That is an alarmist perspective that doesn't make any sense to me. Like I'm personally supposed to start a new company to try to manufacture something to compete with a product that I believe in all the way and will support for years to come? So, bankrupting myself by putting every penny into reinventing the wheel in order to try to make a more inexpensive solution is your idea of solving a problem that doesn't even exist while destroying my life in the process. Thank you but I'll stick with option A, which is what I'm doing now.

Nobody else will be able to compete with this product - it is locked up too tight with the patents. There are some companies trying to ride the coattails of this product by claiming their product will boost redox signaling molecules. Yes, they may - but anything that boosts ATP will give a corresponding boost in redox signaling molecules. But those companies should read my book to see why they're wasting their time using ingredients that the body has to convert.

You want to boost your body's efficiency? Go bathe your body in red light and pulsed at 292Hz preferably. But that is probably too simple in concept for most people to believe but they can't say I never gave them anything. That is a PRICELESS piece of info that I have personally benefited from for the last 11 years or so.

RED LED panels are cheap from ebay. Go buy one and pulse it with a frequency generator. Still limited to the redox signaling molecules your mitochondria can make on its own but nevertheless, an increase. Again, plenty of things people COULD do if they actually want to apply what they learn.

[toranarod]

What do you mean another manufacturer to create a healthy marketplace? These products are in the health care field while conventional medicine is not health care, it sick care. Please let me know if this is what you're talking about - sounds interesting!

Thankfully, I'm don't have age related problems only being 38 right now but I am willing to invest wisely in my health to prevent many problems that could occur. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

I haven't popped open a regular soda pop (diabetes and osteoporosis prevention) like Coke, etc... for almost 15 or so years now...same as not adding white processed sugar (diabetes prevention) to anything in the same time and I haven't bought a loaf of white bread (diabetes, colon cancer, etc... prevention) also in the last 15 years. I'll eat some things with some processed sugar or something made from white flour once in a while but it is not something that I eat as a part of my regular diet. I do my best to avoid anything with high fructose corn syrup (permanently damages villi in the intestines and causes obesity and diabetes, etc...), food colorings (cancer), artificial sweeteners (cancer and countless others), etc... Just mentioning this because there are many things we can do if money is an issue to adjust our diet.

At my health food store, over the years, I literally sold tons of whole wheat flour, wheat berries if someone wants to grind it themselves, bulk flax seeds, etc... there isn't much of a difference in price to eat healthy or eat the processed nutritionally deficient foods and in many cases it is less expensive to eat healthier - especially if we're willing to take a little more time to prepare the foods (homemade bread, etc...). For the average family, a breakmaker is one of the top 10 ways to save money (can't afford one? use a hand grinder or buy the flour and use a bread pan in the oven - takes a bit of time but way healthier and way less expensive), while making healthier bread for less than what you can buy at the store. I'm not a big bread eater - don't eat a lot of grains in general but I do make my own bread once in a while.

The main valid argument that healthy food cost more than unhealthy food is in the produce isles at a grocery store or organic beef, etc... the food around the perimeter of the store is about the only safe place to shop, everything in the middle is boxed or canned dead food.

Even organic produce, etc... hasn't shown to give great benefits over non-organic food I would have to admit - there hasn't been a long enough time or enough real studies to show the benefit. I buy organic because I don't want trace pesticides, etc... However, the greatest difference in health when it comes to food is processed versus unprocessed.

If anyone wants to get a powerful foundation on food and health, probably THE most important book every written on the subject is Nutrition and Physical Degeneration by Weston Price. A doctor that I worked with that was friends with Linus Pauling said this should be required reading for anyone that is interested in nutrition. Shows how in a VERY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME, indigenous cultures that had processed food introduced suddenly had all kinds of problems. Their children started abnormal bone growth in their jaws, crooked teeth, etc...

Basically, processed foods mutate your dna and it is passed to children. But it clears up in later generations if the processed food is removed. DNA can heal itself. Contrary to the fraudulent "genetic" myth, only 2% of problems are truly genetic such as cystic fibrosis, downs syndrome, etc...

But diabetes, heart disease, etc... mostly bogus when doctors convince their patience it is all about their genes, the main thing of importance that is passed down is lifestyle and diet - habits basically - (usually). When those are changed, eventually, the genes correct themselves and suddenly the diabetes and heart diseases disappear. The whole "genetic" fraud is perpetrated so that people feel they are not responsible for their own health - "I got this from my mom" or "I got this from my dad" that is the easy way the average person wants so it isn't their fault or responsibility and they don't have to change their diet, etc... they feel doomed, accept the problem and feed the sick care system for the rest of their lives because they "can't do anything about it."

By the way, redox signaling molecules extend the telomere's length, perhaps not directly but from what they stimulate in the body. Good article to explain this in regards to mutli vitamins but good explanation of what telomeres are:

Basically, lifespan can be extended beyond the theoretical limit of 120 years. I would LOVE to live 120 and beyond IF the quality of my life was health and happy. The redox signaling works at a foundation level that vitamins, minerals, etc... cannot touch and accounting for this, I think the human lifespan limit can and will become record breaking thanks to this breakthrough science.

If this product does what is claimed, and there are tens of thousands that are showing not just subjective results but objective ones as well like age spots disappearing - and company is very new, people will definitely see the value of paying what it costs. But it is relatively very inexpensive insurance.

My closest mentor died a few years back and spent the last couple years in an elderly care home and suffered from dementia - cost his family up to $8000 USD per MONTH the entire time he was there - draining a very substantial amount of money. Insurance didn't cover very much of that - it came out of their pockets. Fortunately for them, he was pretty successful with his ventures and made some good money so it didn't come out of their pockets - just so a lot of it could be spent to prolong the agony and delay the inevitable.

If something would have cost $1000 per month to take and it prevented the dementia, it would have been the cheapest insurance in the world.

I'm not sure what is "about to unfold" in terms of seeing it as a bad thing. People have options and it is a blessing that they do. Someone can spend a few hundred per month on chelation therapy to help some things and prevent others and many baby boomers have been doing this for many years now already. There are many things already available that cost more than average supplements and have been available for a long time. So, with this product, the concept of baby boomers or anyone else spending the money to do things to get some relief, etc... is not a new thing. It just happens that this particular product is in a category all by itself and is comparatively prices to many things on the market. This product didn't change anything in regards to the above, it is only a different modality that appears to work better, faster.