My proposed explanation for the great pyramids.

[Jbignes5]

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

btw, the Magical Egypt series can be found on youtube. I thought the viewers of this thread might find it entertaining as well, I know I did

Wow. Very important find there. Looks like this debate is an old one lol. Excellent videos showing all the connections we have here and more. Very good series of videos.

[sucahyo]

.

The Plain Truth: Egyptian paper: Coins found bearing name of Joseph

Messages of Ossama Alsaadawi - رسائل أسامة السعداوي

Mr. Don Baron, Canada, posted the following quote:
> The Use of Money. In the Old Testament narration Joseph's brothers are said to have used money to pay for provisions but, before sending them on their way, Joseph restored 'every man's money into his sack' (Genesis 42:25). It used to be thought that money did not come into use in Egypt until around 950 BC and the authors of the Genesis story were reflecting the customs of their own era when they referred to money rather than payment in kind. However, recent studies have found evidence to support the idea that, at least from the reign of Amenhotep II (c. 1436-1413 BC), sixth ruler of the 18th dynasty, pieces of metal - gold, silver and copper, of a fixed weight or value - were used as a means of exchange. Abd El-Mohsen Bakir, the Egyptian scholar, makes the point in his book Slavery in Pharaonoic Egypt that a reference in a legal document of the 18th Dynasty indicates that 'two debens [about 90 grams] of silver' were paid as the price of a slave. The role that money played in the brothers' grain purchase again conforms with the situation in Egypt during the New Kingdom. (end of quote from book) <

Canons Regular - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

BIBLICAL BURIAL SITES - Have the burial sites of any people in the Bible been found? - ChristianAnswers.Net

In the last 3-4 I have twice seen a documentary on Egypt which showed a recently discovered tomb of an ancient Egyptian of some importance.
On the tomb wall is a hieroglyph of Joseph on his throne as Pharaoh. It is clearly identified as such by the writing which accompanies it, including Joseph's cartouche. I have not found it on the web, maybe it's too new.

Joseph has curly hair?

[ANTIQUER]

Hi sucahyo;

When explorers and archaeologists first set sail for Egypt at the beginning of the 19th century they were not just on a quest to uncover the exotic civilization of the pharaohs. With trowel in one hand and Bible in the other, they were also hoping to find proof of holy scripture. Biblical Archaeology was born in Egypt with the search for Joseph and the Seven-year Famine, the Ten Plagues, Moses and the Exodus. However, the unfortunate reality is that, after more than 150 years of excavations, not one scrap of archaeological evidence for the Israelite Sojourn in Egypt has come to light. So, is Biblical Archaeology now in crisis?

ISRAELITES IN EGYPT - Is there evidence that the Israelites once lived in Egypt as the Bible says? And has Joseph's original tomb been found? - ChristianAnswers.Net

The Plain Truth: Egyptian paper: Coins found bearing name of Joseph

Tomb of the Patriarchs
Photo copyrighted. All rights reserved.

The Bible says that Sarah, Abraham, Isaac, Rebekah, Leah and Jacob were buried in Hebron, in a cave called the Cave of Machpelah, purchased by Abraham (Gen. 23).

Traditionally, this cave has been located below the Haram el-Khalil ("sacred precinct of the friend of the merciful One, God") in Hebron, today a Muslim mosque. References as early as the Hellenistic period (2nd century B.C.) testify that this is the authentic location of the burial place of the Patriarchs. The cave was explored by the Augustine Canons in 1119, at which time they claim to have found the bones of the Patriarchs.

Canons Regular - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

BIBLICAL BURIAL SITES - Have the burial sites of any people in the Bible been found? - ChristianAnswers.Net

In the last 3-4 years I have twice seen a documentary on Egypt which showed a recently discovered tomb of an ancient Egyptian of some importance.
On the tomb wall is a hieroglyph of Joseph on his throne as Pharaoh. It is clearly identified as such by the writing which accompanies it, including Joseph's cartouche. I have not found it on the web, maybe it's too new.

Al

[jtstatic]

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

btw, the Magical Egypt series can be found on youtube. I thought the viewers of this thread might find it entertaining as well, I know I did

[rickoff]

Hi Rick;

Don't know if you have seen this, but it has a lot of good info. on the Sphinx, complete with drawings of the tunnels, etc. under it.

Sphinx Facts and Schematics - Crystalinks

Thanks, Al. The drawings do appear to be accurate in that they do show some of what has actually been found beneath and between the Sphinx and the pyramids. An early Rosicrucian/Masonic drawing is also said to show these details, including the large vertical shafts known as "Campbell's Tomb." These shafts are said to extend downwards 125 feet to several large chambers, one of which has another shaft extending to a chamber or chambers further below. The lower area, when found, was partially flooded, and contained a 12 foot sarcphagus, while another chamber is said to have contained several sarcophagi that were 18 feet!

There was also a program on PBS recently that was good. They talked about how the body and esp. the paws look out of proportion due to layers having been added over time by various Pharaohs to preserve it, and how the head is made of different limestone which is softer or harder, can't remember which. Perhaps with your skills you can find it on their website.

Yes, there have been many alterations and restorations to the Sphinx. The water erosion damage is seen beneath the layers of restorative repair, and where these layers have fallen off. I see, in the link that you provided, they do mention that, "The head of the Sphinx was altered many times by the Pharaohs," and that "The head has been replaced by several different heads - the original the head of a feline cat." The article also states that, "Many believe that the original head was that of the lion and the Sphinx dates to the Age of Leo - 12,000 years ago." These statements would support my reasoning in post # 168.

http://www.energeticforum.com/89648-post168.html

Thanks also for your Egypt's Lost Legacy and the Genesis of Civilization link in post #185. That article lends further credence to the Giza complex having been constructed around 10,500 BC, and offers compelling evidence that the Sumerians were actually ancient Egyptians who had left Giza because of the cataclysmic events that occurred there. Now going back to post #168, the Sumerians told of the Anunnaki being those whose secret abode was an underground place which very well could have been Giza. They also wrote that the Anunnaki had come from the Orion belt, which could explain why the Giza complex was planned to mirror the constellation Orion.

The biggest problem I see with any claim of subterranean vaults, tunnels, etc. is the water table. It currently is at about 23' below the surface. As you state, which seems to be correct according to some ancient writings, Lake Moeris was much closer to the Great Pyramid in earlier days and therefore the water table would have been even higher. And also with the annual flooding of the Nile how could they have kept the water out while building all these places, esp. a series of tunnels 30 miles long under the Nile and the lake, or palaces 250' tall, not to mention the effects of earthquakes, etc. How would they keep the ceiling from caving in, esp. under the river and lake beds?

Do you know what the level of ground water was 12,000 to 20,000 years ago, when all of this was likely built? And who said anything about a 30 mile tunnel under the Nile? Of course there is bedrock beneath the Nile, and so why would it be implausible that a tunnel could in fact be constructed beneath the Nile? Consider the Holland Tunnel beneath the Hudson River. The last I knew, that hadn't caved in yet. Sure, there would be some amount of water seepage in any tunnel beneath a body of water, but it could be pumped as we pump water from the Holland Tunnel, or simply drained to another lower lying area.

Here's an interesting thought. If it were accurate how did they get those monstrous figures on top of the pyramids in the lake? How did they build them in the middle of a lake? That's harder than on dry sand.

Who's saying that they were built in the lake? It is likely that they were built long before the lake rose to such a level, which was probably the result of either heavy rains predating the Ice Age, or the melting of receding glaciers following the period of the last Ice Age. My own concept regarding all of this is that this catastrophic period of heavy inundation was the reason why Giza was abandoned by the learned ones, and later discovered by other peoples who knew little or nothing about what lay beneath Giza.

As to all the current speculation about secret passages, etc., that's all it is;speculation. Check Hawass's website and he tells what they have found in various new "tunnels" around the Sphinx which have been hyped lately; nothing.

There's a lot more to this than mere speculation, Al. Throughout recorded history there have been various accounts of such passages, and not just from what Edgar Cayce said. I would take anything that Haw-ass says with a grain of salt. He is Egypt's chief obstructionist, and denier of anything and everything that would reveal truths about Giza. A magazine article, written and published in 1935 by Hamilton M. Wright, dealt with an extraordinary discovery under the sands of Giza that is today denied. The article was accompanied by original photographs provided by Dr Selim Hassan, the leader of the scientific investigative team from the University of Cairo who made the discovery. It said: "We have discovered a subway used by the ancient Egyptians of 5000 years ago. It passes beneath the causeway leading between the second Pyramid and the Sphinx. It provides a means of passing under the causeway from the Cheops Pyramid to the Pyramid of Chephren [Khephren]. From this subway, we have unearthed a series of shafts leading down more than 125 feet, with roomy courts and side chambers." So at least one prominent Egyptologist has admitted that the passages and chambers exist, and the 125 foot shafts that he spoke of are the ones known as the "Campbell's Tomb" shafts that I described at the beginning of this thread, and which were shown in the diagrams supplied by the Sphinx Facts and Schematics - Crystalinks link that you provided. You yourself stated that the link provided "a lot of good info on the Sphinx, complete with drawings of the tunnels, etc. under it." So why tout something as good info, and then later state that the tunnels and chambers are purely speculation?


Just wondering, Al, why it is that you seem to be so dead set against acceptance of any knowledge or theories about Giza that do not subscribe to popularized beliefs? I'm not knocking your beliefs, of course, and do respect your point of view, but I am just wondering why you appear to choose to accept what we have been told, rather than to diligently question it. I have been questioning authority, and conventional "wisdom" all my life, so I will probably never do otherwise, and it is highly unlikely that anyone can persuade me to think differently than I do, or to abandon what I feel are the logical assumptions that can be drawn. So here again, we will probably just have to agree to disagree on most of whatever we say in this thread. But that's okay, especially if it helps us to learn more and eventually unravel the actual truth.


Best to you,

Rick

Hi folks, Hi Aaron, im not an expert in ancient things, but there was a movie called ' Krull ' i believe and the guy in the movie carried something very similar to that cross you showed. Seems yet again hollywood knows things, or whoever writes the movies.
peace love light
Tyson
edit: ok just checked, it actually has five blades or points, but looks similar.

the 'glaive'... man i loved that movie.

[Jbignes5]

I agree..

I have to agree with them on the contrary viewpoint you have Al. The problem with Hawass is that when he went to prove nothing was below the sphinx he drilled at an angle that would not have brought him much below what they fixed at the paws. So saying that is proof is a blatant misconception. You can clearly see that they were drilling into what they knew was only the paw below the sand. Check the angle and the distance from the paw. He knew he was drilling just below the sand and thats not where they said the portal was. It was much lower. Remember the misdirection approach or slight of hand. They wanted it to appear that they were looking and drilled only into what they knew was solid rock. Like drilling into the casing above the access..
So Hawass is only trying to disprove the theory by some slight of hand trickery. Instead of drilling to the specifications of the radar results. I mean why would you drill unless you had the radar team right there to show where it was?

[jtstatic]

Sucahyo, if you mean the proposed Hebrew connection, I agree with you, still I always find this particular book interesting and some of the connections it makes, even if it's figment of the writers imagination.

I also admit I haven't yet studied all the aspects yet, that's why I'd like to here second opinion from those who have apparently studied these things more than I have.

Antiquer, thx for the links, also I appreciate your critical approach, it brings some needed balance to this thread.

[sucahyo]

Aaron, regarding that stone tablet and other findings regarding Atlantis and Mu you mention, and noticing how you have studied these things further, you might find following interesting - and I may sound like a broken record, but if you can take a brief moment to check the pages starting from 129/130 (134/135 in the e-book).

E-book

The part about superman family after that made it rather questionable though. However:
"And to Solomon (We subjected) the wind, its morning (stride from sunrise till midnoon) was a month's (journey), and its afternoon (stride from the midday decline of the sun to sunset) was a month's (journey i.e. in one day he could travel two months' journey)."

[ANTIQUER]

Hi jtstatic;

Where did the story of Mu/Atlantis come from and the supposed connection to Egypt?

Mu (lost continent) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.wikipedia.org

/wiki/Augustus_Le_Plongeon

Maya script - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Al

[Aaron]

Temple of Horus at Edfu

Pondering Gurdjieff’s Map - a knol by The Gurdjieff Journal

Check out the last 2 pics. of the hieroglyphs in the top row in the link below. Are these what you saw?

Egypt's Lost Legacy and the Genesis of Civilization

Al

Al,

It is the Temple of Horus at Edfu!

Of course it is just a guess that the lost land or whatever they
want to call it is Atlantis, but it is another one of those mysteries
that appears to fit the description of the sunken land where
survivors left and came to start a new world.

But with multiple corroborated stories and evidence around the
world pointing to the same story and time frame, it certainly
seems to strengthen the argument for one or more sunken
continents or islands with an advanced civilization that escaped
and restarted elsewhere.

[Aaron]

thanks!

check the pages starting from 129/130 (134/135 in the e-book).

E-book

Thanks, I'll check it out. Interesting that this place always sounds similar
in all the languages.

[ANTIQUER]

Hi Rick;

I find nothing credible about Tony Bushby or his books/articles which are what is in the link you supplied, Ancient cities under the sands of Giza.
As usual any evidence to support any claim has mysteriously disappeared, and some of them are pretty wild.

By the way I'm pretty sure that engraving of the pyramid in the lake is a fake. I have seen engravings of that period and they are of pretty fine detail, not the hazy mess pictured. Also note he gives no reference as to who did it or published it so it could be checked out.

Here's an interesting thought. If it were accurate how did they get those monstrous figures on top of the pyramids in the lake? How did they build them in the middle of a lake? That's harder than on dry sand.

As for Herodotus you don't suppose those ancient Egyptians could have been pulling his leg about those underground rooms, do you? Or even worse, would they lie to impress him?

The biggest problem I see with any claim of subterranean vaults, tunnels, etc. is the water table. It currently is at about 23' below the surface. As you state, which seems to be correct according to some ancient writings, Lake Moeris was much closer to the Great Pyramid in earlier days and therefore the water table would have been even higher.

And also with the annual flooding of the Nile how could they have kept the water out while building all these places, esp. a series of tunnels 30 miles long under the Nile and the lake, or palaces 250' tall, not to mention the effects of earthquakes, etc. How would they keep the ceiling from caving in, esp. under the river and lake beds?

As to all the current speculation about secret passages, etc., that's all it is;speculation. Much of it is based around Edgar Cayce's so-called prophesies, yet even a team from their own group found no caverns under the paws of the Sphinx after drilling where readings suggested there might be some.

Check Hawass's website and he tells what they have found in various new "tunnels" around the Sphinx which have been hyped lately; nothing. They hit water in at least one of them at 12'. The hypsters take readings which suggest geological anomalies and in their "reports" turn them into evidence of vaults, etc. which have always turned out to be nothing more than anomalies.

drhawass.com - Zahi Hawass
While I certainly don't take what he says as gospel, his comments are confirmed by other reliable sources.

So while they may find other tombs, vaults, etc. buried by sand over time just as the Sphinx was nearly buried, I don't think they will find anything resembling cities, palaces, temple complexes or 30 mile tunnels.

Al

[ANTIQUER]

Hi Aaron;

As a very interesting note, Gurdjieff met a Catholic Priest on his journey's
and this priest showed him a pre-sand map of Egypt! This isn't very well
known and I don't know if there are any copies of it. I thought Gurdjieff
copied the map - been a while. I have the survivor story "monument"
somewhere in my Gurdjieff archive, which I don't even know where it is
at the moment I'll post when I find it because it is very interesting.

He says he made a copy;
Pondering Gurdjieff’s Map - a knol by The Gurdjieff Journal

Check out the last 2 pics. of the hieroglyphs in the top row in the link below. Are these what you saw?

Egypt's Lost Legacy and the Genesis of Civilization

Al

[jtstatic]

Aaron, regarding that stone tablet and other findings regarding Atlantis and Mu you mention, and noticing how you have studied these things further, you might find following interesting - and I may sound like a broken record, but if you can take a brief moment to check the pages starting from 129/130 (134/135 in the e-book).

E-book

Interestingly, here again is described the Maya-Atlantean link.



On the same page is another description of "Nagas" from Mu that had colonised Burma / India, which is interesing regarding the "Naacal" tablets Churchward found...

It's also interesting that there is a practice called "Nagualism" in Mesoamerican tradition, whose teachings actually have a very eastern philoshopy type spiritual vibe to them if you dig deeper. Stories of these can be found in Carlos Castanedas books for example.

Anyway getting back to aforementioned book, it suggests that Atlantis and Mu were indeed separate continents. This seems appropriate as the Mayan civilization resides between the supposed locations. Both these continents seemed to suffer the same fate of going under water due to cataclysms..

What is the absolute truth however, go figure.. I just present this here as one possible link.